Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with Irina Slutskaya

allezfred

Baby Jolly Man Face
Staff member
Messages
54,567
Ratings
47,085
However I dont think that Elena and Anton were far superior to S&P. I dont was to rehash this part at all here..but I disagree so much.. maybe its just a cultural thing.. She grew up Russian and preferred the Russian style, while I grew up North American and could identify with that style.
Not Russian, but Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were a superior team to Sale/Pelletier in Salt Lake City. Throwing out one judges marks for just these two couples was one of the most ridiculous things I’ve seen in sport. The two golds was all about making the media circus go away.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
28,878
Ratings
50,183
It did put the Russian Federation in a bad light and brought scrutiny to the ice dance judging. Two things that benefited the French team A/P. Hmmmm...
I actually think because the "deal" had been outed some what, it made the Russian judge, Alla Shekhovtsova (the Adelina Sotnikova hugger), feel free to break the deal and judge however she wanted, which allowed her to vote for Lobacheva/Averbukh in the FD and thus creating a 5-4 split in the FD nearly giving L/A gold. I also think the Polish judge's 6.0 for L/A's OD for presentation when A/P received all 5.9s in presentation empowered to vote for L/A in the FD as well. But I'm projecting a lot. I just remember her facial expression after L/A's presentation scores were announced and the rankings were shown on the board.
 
Messages
9,287
Ratings
12,497
I actually think because the "deal" had been outed some what, it made the Russian judge, Alla Shekhovtsova (the Adelina Sotnikova hugger), feel free to break the deal and judge however she wanted, which allowed her to vote for Lobacheva/Averbukh in the FD and thus creating a 5-4 split in the FD nearly giving L/A gold. I also think the Polish judge's 6.0 for L/A's OD for presentation when A/P received all 5.9s in presentation empowered to vote for L/A in the FD as well. But I'm projecting a lot. I just remember her facial expression after L/A's presentation scores were announced and the rankings were shown on the board.
I can't even imagine if L/A had won gold over A/P. I would never have been able to recover. The horror:eek:
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,778
Ratings
2,398
I do think Marie-Reine Le Gougne spoke the truth about pressure from Didier and broke down and cried when she admitted it. I also do believe she repeated such things at the judges' post-even review meeting the day after. However, I also found it suspect that Sally Stapleford zoned in on Le Gougne after the event at the officials' hotel lobby. I think Stapleford already had a suspicion about some sort of deal between the French and Russians regarding pairs and ice dance whether they were founded or not and decided that Le Gougne should be interrogated based on nothing more than a gut feeling.

The book The Second Mark goes into more details about witnesses and such observing Didier's behavior and overhearing his conversations before the event and such, but it was so much I honestly don't remember it all.
Didn't she then deny later that she had been pressured to vote for B&S?
 

Zemgirl

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,949
Ratings
18,405
If SLC were a book, La Gougne would be considered an unreliable narrator.

Does anyone else have any archive gems to share? I kind of feel like we should have a "this day in FSU history" thread ;)
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,880
Ratings
9,869
But Oblasova was never coached by Gromova, right? So it was some girl from the rink...Gromova had quite a few girls back then including Pingacheva, Nikolaeva, Nelidina, Naidenova, Martynova...
Oblasova was coached by Gromova at some point, if i recall correctly, towards the very end, after she left Chaikovskaya, went to Kudryavtzev, and then to Gromova (??). Gromova is listed as her coach on data sites,
http://www.solovieff.ru/main.mhtml?Part=60&PubID=372
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Обласова,_Кристина_Александровна
and Oblasova is listed as Gromova's pupil on those sites too.
http://www.solovieff.ru/main.mhtml?Part=49&PubID=219
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Громова,_Жанна_Фёдоровна
(plus, a rink can have various groups handled by different coaches).
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
28,878
Ratings
50,183
Didn't she then deny later that she had been pressured to vote for B&S?
She initially made the statements that she felt pressured by Didier and said that twice. Then in the days and weeks afterward she made statements contradicting that saying she was pressured to say the Canadians were better. However, people who observed her in the first night and the next day verified she did say she felt pressured by Didier to vote for B/S.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
28,878
Ratings
50,183
So did anyone go to Tara Lipinski's IG and watch the 96 Worlds program Irina referenced?

I did. I can still remember those days!!!!!

(LMAO we felt handicapped compared to her) :rofl:
Didn't Irina tell 13-year-old Tara she didn't belong there at the elevator at those Worlds? I remember the commentators talking about it and Tara responded "yes I do!"

I can't even imagine if L/A had won gold over A/P. I would never have been able to recover. The horror:eek:
The best part was how after compulsories, Barbara Fusar-Poli who was so used to getting the politick favor from the judges by that point in her career despite a 4th place finish at GPF, basically called out the judging and saying it was rigged after FP/M came in third in compulsories behind L/A.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,880
Ratings
9,869
Didn't she then deny later that she had been pressured to vote for B&S?
I thought she explained later that when she said "pressure" she meant from "all sides and in general", not specifically "for the Russians".

North American press, even before the event started, weeks before, were pushing the idea of "This maybe the year to end the Russian Pairs domination", literally saying this, there were many articles and sport-news announcements hyping up North Americans to see "Russians fail". In the same scope there was a heavy advertising of the US Hockey win over Russians - "The Dream Team Story".

The hype to see "Russians lose" was beyond normal. When the Pairs FS happened, all comments were hyped up out of proportion with one purpose, to see "Russians lose to Canadians". Plus somehow the media managed to link the "scandal" to Russian Mafia boss (Tokhtakhounov), and that went on for almost a year. But as it progressed, some phone-call conversations were discovered between Anissina and the Russian mobster (who claimed he is just a figure skating lover and called her to wish her well. and Anissina confirmed they did talk, for the same reasons), so eventually it was dropped.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...e9a6c4b/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.303e310e8606
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...pion-admits-she-talked-to-mobster-172284.html

After the scandal broke out, later L/A said in interviews "when pairs' scandal happen, we knew we will not be allowed to win, no matter how we skate."
:D
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
28,878
Ratings
50,183
That is very true. I think when one country has a winning streak lasting 10 Olympics straight (34 years), and it seems the odds are stacked against any other country from winning and then you get a true blue contender, then people will get excited. I also think when that country is Russia bringing up that Soviet-U.S./East-West/Socialism-Democracy/Communism-Capitalism Cold War stuff and the Western contender are media-friendly smiley and nice (on the outside) Canadians, then it just brought the worst out. I remember that pairs LP fluff piece with the music for Bereznhaya/Sikharulidze sounding sinister with statues of like Lenin being on display with the cinematography set to a grayish tone.

Regarding Anissina, it did give birth to this emoticon: :skandal
 

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,481
Ratings
4,311
With respect to her comments on pairs in SLC I can appreciate that different people have different opinions on who is better. On any given day I myself could pick either one because in B/S you have the power, ice coverage in many of their elements, musicality offset by his mistake, crashy twist landing and bad edges on the landings of both throws and the twist. Also I appreciate all the beautiful pictures they created on the ice although at the same time I grew weary of all the extended gliding poses that only added a minimal amount of difficulty to the program. Compare to S/P who were whistle clean with similar difficulty but without the grandeur or the power in their presentation and elements that was overall void of big moments that define an Olympic gold program (maybe throw loop). I just don't think it's clear cut, factoring out what appeals to me personally.

But to me it's less about the specific debate. What I watch for most is how sometimes the narrative changes across disciplines. I won't call out the specifics so as not to unduly distract the conversation about the interview but I find sometimes we say in one discpline that the beauty and precision should win out over the technical and then we move to another discipline and champion the technical brilliance as the determining factor on who is best to the point where I feel the rationale becomes a moving target. When I see this happening I have a harder time buying into some of the opinions that are shared. Harder to comment here because she didn't give any specifics about her thoughts on B/S.
 
Messages
8,923
Ratings
7,867
Oblasova was coached by Gromova at some point, if i recall correctly, towards the very end, after she left Chaikovskaya, went to Kudryavtzev, and then to Gromova (??). Gromova is listed as her coach on data sites,
http://www.solovieff.ru/main.mhtml?Part=60&PubID=372
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Обласова,_Кристина_Александровна
and Oblasova is listed as Gromova's pupil on those sites too.
http://www.solovieff.ru/main.mhtml?Part=49&PubID=219
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Громова,_Жанна_Фёдоровна
(plus, a rink can have various groups handled by different coaches).
I think it's the other way round. Kudriavtsev was her last coach. So she was with Gromova before she even was with Tchaikovskaya. That would make sense.
 

Janbo

go big or go home.
Messages
82
Ratings
120
Vash, do you know what I find sad? Your generalization that Canadians whine. I was going to complain about that but feck it. Haters gonna hate. And hate is sad.
 
Messages
31,233
Ratings
22,778
PJ Kwong's book added a lot more to the SLC story and corrected some of the errors. For example, Lavoie wasn't the heroic figure of the Second Mark, and Skate Canada's lawyers vetted his statements with a fine-toothed comb.

LeGougne was one competition away from being appointed to the ISU Technical Committee, at which point she would have been free of Gailhauguet. With Stapleford against her, she was not getting on that committee, even if she had held her ground in front of the elevator.

Without LeGougne, the Olympics would have gone on to the next event, and no amount of press or TV outrage would have made a difference.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,634
Ratings
12,776
However, I also found it suspect that Sally Stapleford zoned in on Le Gougne after the event at the officials' hotel lobby. I think Stapleford already had a suspicion about some sort of deal between the French and Russians regarding pairs and ice dance whether they were founded or not and decided that Le Gougne should be interrogated based on nothing more than a gut feeling.

The book The Second Mark goes into more details about witnesses and such observing Didier's behavior and overhearing his conversations before the event and such, but it was so much I honestly don't remember it all.
I agree with you about Stapleford knew something was amiss and remember reading about it in The Second Mark.
 
Messages
31,233
Ratings
22,778
LeGougne didn't retract her statement until Gailhauguet cornered her into a private meeting. That was after she broke down by the elevator or confessed to being pressured by Gailhauguet in the judges' meeting.
 

giselle23

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,498
Ratings
1,966
I don’t think cheated jumps had anything to do with the adoption of the IJS. There had been pressure on figure skating from some on the Olympic Committee to adopt a more “objective” system, much like gymnastics had done, and Speedy was on board. The cheating scandal in 2002 gave him the opening he was looking for to make the change.
 

SpeedySucks

Well-Known Member
Messages
426
Ratings
450
I don’t think cheated jumps had anything to do with the adoption of the IJS. There had been pressure on figure skating from some on the Olympic Committee to adopt a more “objective” system, much like gymnastics had done, and Speedy was on board. The cheating scandal in 2002 gave him the opening he was looking for to make the change.
Gymnastics adopted its new scoring system in 2006, which was after IJS had been implemented.
 

Domshabfan

A proud P/C fan
Messages
8,785
Ratings
4,010
I don’t think cheated jumps had anything to do with the adoption of the IJS. There had been pressure on figure skating from some on the Olympic Committee to adopt a more “objective” system, much like gymnastics had done, and Speedy was on board. The cheating scandal in 2002 gave him the opening he was looking for to make the change.
As pointed out Gymnatics changed their scoring system later. They too after their own scandals, Paul Hamm’s being gifted gold over Yang and later Crowd booing the judges for 10 mins for score dished our to Alexi Nemov.

Responsibility of US media was also amazing, if I remember correctly Rosie O’Donell calling Elena a retard for the brain injury and coma she suffered earlier in her career. Some ways I am glad FS is not as popular in the US as before, otherwise we would have had to see such hateful vitriol
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,880
Ratings
9,869
She did this interview once saying how awful and uncultured American audiences were during COI and how she'd see them eating hamburgers while she was skating.
To be exact, she said in several interviews that "in Russia after a skating performance/show the audience treat performers as theatre actors/ballet stars, they bring them flowers, dress up for the event; in America the audience treat the show like a circus, "just another form of some cheap entertainment", and some "fat man can sit through a performance gubbling up a slimy hamburger".... "skaters are not circus freaks for the plebs, they are artists".

I could not possibly find all the articles/interviews from the early 2000's. But i found one.. that covers some of it.
https://www.sovsport.ru/figure/news/218699-sluckaja-ja-ne-vybrasyvala-svoju-medal-v-musornoe-vedro

- Конечно! Бытовые условия везде примерно одинаковые - отели, номера, но вот зрители! На родине ты чувствуешь себя звездой, ощущаешь поддержку поклонников. А там - как конвейер. Души нет. Помню, выхожу в одном городе на лед и вижу перед собой мужчину, который за обе щеки уплетает здоровенный гамбургер. Выступать перед таким было неприятно. Но в Америке подобные зрители - в порядке вещей. И обратная история в России. Как-то в Ростове - это был один из первых туров по стране - после поклона поднимаю глаза и вижу море цветов. Шикарный букет роз мне подарил молодой человек, который встал передо мной на колени. Я была в шоке!

- Of course! The living conditions are the same (everywhere) - the hotels, the rooms, but the audience! Back home, you are made to feel like a star, feel the support of your fans. Over there - it is a conveyor. No feeling of "soul". I remember once, in some town, i step out on the ice, and see up in the audience a man, he is stuffing a hamburger behind both of this cheeks, a huge one. It is not pleasant to skate in front of a such person. But in America, such type of audience is a standard. And it is in reverse in Russia. One time in Rostov (my editorial: a dingy provincial town, but still...), one of the first show tours in Russia, after i skated, and took a bow, i lift my eyes and see a sea/a flood of flowers (my editorial: like they do in theater/ballet/opera). A young admirer gifted me a grand bouqete of roses, and he went down on one knee (like a knight). I was shocked (in a pleasant way).
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 4)

Top