Valieva Banned for Four Years, Effective December 25, 2021

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

He's Ukrainian!!!

A. He's a Canadian
B. That will not prevent the Russians from claiming him as their own.

 

[overedge]

Whoever put the team together must have known about the positive test, but yet they let Valieva be part of the team. Thus IMO the team cheated by using an ineligible athlete.

@Andrey aka Pushkin I get what you are saying, that the other athletes on the team didn't cheat. I do feel badly for them now that they are probably going to lose their medals, because they did their part for the overall placement. But the placement that got them the medals included the points that Valieva earned, so they indirectly benefited from her being there.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Having an athlete in the team who wasn't clean is cheating. One team member breaks the rules, the whole team is stripped. That's some mental gymnastics your doing

Nah, I think it's more the case of you wanting a Canadian bronze (which in this case is reasonable but doesn't have anything to do with whether full disqualification of team is reasonable or not).

I don't see how Mozalev, or whoever it is who was on the team there, is responsible for Valieva. This is a fake event with fake competition format. If they managed to get the bronze with just three team members - good for them. That's hardly cheating.

 

[Andora]

The team didn't cheat. A skater did. This entire event has nothing "teamy" about it, and there's zero connection between the team members. It's more akin to these fun statistics of "which country won the most medals", where for some reason, additional medals are given to the top three of these statistics.

Besides, Russians will claim Sadovski as their own, do not only we get the Russians medal, but also it awards arguably the worst performance in the Olympic history.

I mean, you've already acknowledged that you just don't want Canada to have the bronze. Wouldn't it be easier to just drop these awkward justifications?

Anyways, bias is bias, we all have it, but defending Russia these days is an ugly choice, full stop.

 

[airgelaal]

as if everyone forgot about relays, where the entire team is disqualified when one participant is found to have doping.

 

[Habs]

This is a fake event with fake competition format. If they managed to get the bronze with just three team members - good for them. That's hardly cheating.

You might say it's a fake event with a fake format.... but it has very real medals, titles, money and opportunities. And many skaters missed out on those things because Russia decided to cheat. Full stop.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Whoever put the team together must have known about the positive test, but yet they let Valieva be part of the team. Thus IMO the team cheated by using an ineligible athlete.

Ok, that's not correct. No one knew about the positive test, and the team wasn't nominated by someone who could have known about the positive test (or more broadly, about doping). Unless proven otherwise, of course, but I don't anyone is claiming that.

@Andrey aka Pushkin I get what you are saying, that the other athletes on the team didn't cheat. I do feel badly for them now that they are probably going to lose their medals, because they did their part for the overall placement. But the placement that got them the medals included the points that Valieva earned, so they indirectly benefited from her being there.

Ok, obviously they shouldn't be able to keep the gold. Moreover, I think it makes sense to recalculate the result in the women's event which would strip them off the bronze as well.

But with the existing format and how this stupid event works in general, there's no reason to disqualify the entire team. The more plausible thing would have been saying they had just three disciplines competing, and managed to finish fourth at that, so kudos.

 

[On My Own]

i'm here to say "i told you so" and leave

 

[airgelaal]

In fencing, a team member can lose all of his matches but still receive a medal because other team members won their matches. And this principle works in many team competitions. I don’t understand why suddenly figure skating is a different story

 

[barbk]

I'd be surprised if Valieva is still in the mix come December 25, 2025. I wonder if Russia can/will move the women's events at Nationals to allow her to compete that year? In any event, she'll need then-current minimums to compete at Euros, Olympics or Worlds. With the Olympics starting February 6th, that doesn't leave her much time to achieve a minimum score for the Olympics and virtually no possibility of getting one before Euros begins January 12.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

This is what I think too. In gymnastics, to me, the rules read as if it is the national federation's responsibility to make sure all team athletes are age-eligible so it makes sense that the whole federation is disqualified in a team event for an age violation. In track and field/swimming, if an athlete is DQ in a team event for doping, it means they didn't complete the course so the team is DQ. Apart from that, I can't think of examples on doping eliminating a whole national team unless you have a Sochi 2014 state sponsored issue (and even then we have had ROC or OAR).

With Winter Games 2022, many people might think Russia is guilty of state sponsored doping, but no-one of the other skaters has a positive test issue. Russia is banned as a state now for the war and not for doping. That is why I think the middle ground is where ISU will go. It is pretty bizarre that with doping being such a huge issue that there aren't written rules on how one DQ affects the rest of the individual performances for this event.

Can you think of any example of a situation where a single athlete was DQed from a team based event where the rest of the team was not DQed?

 

[manhn]

Nah, I think it's more the case of you wanting a Canadian bronze (which in this case is reasonable but doesn't have anything to do with whether full disqualification of team is reasonable or not).

I don't see how Mozalev, or whoever it is who was on the team there, is responsible for Valieva. This is a fake event with fake competition format. If they managed to get the bronze with just three team members - good for them. That's hardly cheating.

As if Canada has not had an entire team lose out on medals due to one athlete getting a positive test. Google Silken Laumann. We survived.

 

[Karen-W]

Ahhhh... See, now, @Andrey aka Pushkin is just giving us a sample of what the new Russian rhetoric is going to be.

The team event is a FAKE event and doesn't really matter. We Russians should not be upset about losing a FAKE gold medal for a FAKE event that was only created and kept around to stroke the egos of the big skating federations. Only the 2014 team event gold medal is real because it was the first and it was only a test to see if this would become something that mattered to the figure skating world. But it doesn't matter and Canada's gold in 2018 was also fake because they had to drag Virtue/Moir and Patrick Chan out of virtual retirement in order to snatch victory away from us. And now, to prove just how FAKE this event has become, the rest of the world has resorted to a minor doping violation to disqualify us because they cannot win even a FAKE gold medal for a FAKE event. Everything is FAKE and we should not be upset at losing the FAKE gold medal.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'd be surprised if Valieva is still in the mix come December 25, 2025. I wonder if Russia can/will move the women's events at Nationals to allow her to compete that year? In any event, she'll need then-current minimums to compete at Euros, Olympics or Worlds. With the Olympics starting February 6th, that doesn't leave her much time to achieve a minimum score for the Olympics and virtually no possibility of getting one before Euros begins January 12.

By then, they'll have gone through three more generations of Eteri girls and be like "Valieva who?"

 

[BlueRidge]

Ahhhh... See, now, @Andrey aka Pushkin is just giving us a sample of what the new Russian rhetoric is going to be.

The team event is a FAKE event and doesn't really matter. We Russians should not be upset about losing a FAKE gold medal for a FAKE event that was only created and kept around to stroke the egos of the big skating federations. Only the 2014 team event gold medal is real because it was the first and it was only a test to see if this would become something that mattered to the figure skating world. But it doesn't matter and Canada's gold in 2018 was also fake because they had to drag Virtue/Moir and Patrick Chan out of virtual retirement in order to snatch victory away from us. And now, to prove just how FAKE this event has become, the rest of the world has resorted to a minor doping violation to disqualify us because they cannot win even a FAKE gold medal for a FAKE event. Everything is FAKE and we should not be upset at losing the FAKE gold medal.

Now let's all have cake.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

I mean, you've already acknowledged that you just don't want Canada to have the bronze. Wouldn't it be easier to just drop these awkward justifications?

Well, firstly, I suppose I should have someone holding a "sarcasm" sign for the more capable among ourselves. I don't have a preference over Russia or Canada for bronze, with the exception of Sadovski having a pathetic performance, and I wish a more deserving team ended up with a medal.

Anyways, bias is bias, we all have it, but defending Russia these days is an ugly choice, full stop.

Apart from our Ukrainian fellow posters here, I doubt anyone here has more reasons to detest Putinist Russia than myself. And yet there should be a line between a legitimate criticism and outright irrational and unbased russophobia.

You might say it's a fake event with a fake format.... but it has very real medals, titles, money and opportunities. And many skaters missed out on those things because Russia decided to cheat. Full stop.

As this entire event is rigged from the start in favour of the Big Three, this "who benefits" argument is particularly

But to be exact, again, Russia (unlike in 2014, btw) didn't decide to cheat. A skater (or more likely her coach) decided to cheat. It's not the same.

 

[Vagabond]

Now let's all have cake.

And a Valieva cocktail.

 

[Spikefan]

Now let's all have cake.

I would like to request mine without trimetazidine, thanks!

 

[Hedwig]

I would have been more sympathetic to the rest of the Russian team if they had renounced doping at least officially and not accepted the fake gold medals from Putin because of the big injustice.
With this tone deafness they disqualified for the bronce medal to be even in consideration IMO.

 

[Judy]

Is there a mandatory number that is required to compete? Eg 1 man and one woman in singles) 2 ice dance people, two pairs people?

I know that some can alternate with alternate qualifying skaters (someone can do short, someone can do long).

Despite the doping result, they basically haven’t met the qualifications of the 4 disciplines being represented.

 

[airgelaal]

Now let's all have cake.

Yesterday was my mother's birthday, so I had a piece of cake left over I'm lucky

 

[Karen-W]

Is there a mandatory number that is required to compete? Eg 1 man and one woman in singles) 2 ice dance people, two pairs people?

I know that some can alternate with alternate qualifying skaters (someone can do short, someone can do long).

They have to have an entrant in at least 3 of the 4 disciplines. They can swap out a skater/team from the SP to the FS in two disciplines max. Russia chose to enter 1 skater/team in each discipline and did not swap any of them for a different skater/team between the SP and FS.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Ahhhh... See, now, @Andrey aka Pushkin is just giving us a sample of what the new Russian rhetoric is going to be.

The team event is a FAKE event and doesn't really matter. We Russians should not be upset about losing a FAKE gold medal for a FAKE event that was only created and kept around to stroke the egos of the big skating federations. Only the 2014 team event gold medal is real because it was the first and it was only a test to see if this would become something that mattered to the figure skating world. But it doesn't matter and Canada's gold in 2018 was also fake because they had to drag Virtue/Moir and Patrick Chan out of virtual retirement in order to snatch victory away from us. And now, to prove just how FAKE this event has become, the rest of the world has resorted to a minor doping violation to disqualify us because they cannot win even a FAKE gold medal for a FAKE event. Everything is FAKE and we should not be upset at losing the FAKE gold medal.

If we're going to put words into @Andrey aka Pushkin's mouth, let's not be too surprised when he lashes back, shall we? Just a friendly warning.

The team event is a dumb event that was made up to give additional medals to Russia, USA and Canada. I said it from the very start, moreover, I said from the very start the only reason it exists is because Russia wanted another more "national" set of medals for its home Olympics in 2014, and the other big federations played along. It's a stupid format, it makes no sense in the context of figure skating, I don't know any other sport that has anything as random, and these medals are considered fake even by the skaters themselves.

All this has nothing to do with Valieva disqualification and consequential redistribution of the medals.

 

[MacMadame]

I was thinking it would be more like “We offer you unlimited TimBits and a personal meet and greet with Justin Trudeau.”

Carrot

"We have knitting needles, and we know how to use them."

Stick

Well in terms of skating quality, I would. I am perfectly fine with admitting they deserve it simply for playing by the rules, but I just don't think anyone deserved the bronze here.

That's not how sporting competitions work. Winning ugly is still winning.

No, it doesn’t. The rules in 2000 are vastly different from the rules twenty-one years later and the situations and punishment schemes for both athletes are very different and you know that.

Also, it's a false analogy.

Clearly so.. Someone is being paid to shill for Mother Russia and Eteri.. It's pathetic and sad.. but whatever..

It's sadder than that. They do it for free.

The statement indicated that the doping rules don't vary based on age.
"The CAS Panel stressed that the test with respect to intention under Clause 12.2 of the Russian ADR is one and the same whether the athlete is an adult or a Protected Person. It means that if a Protected Person fails to discharge the burden (which under the Russian ADR is borne by the athlete) that he or she did not commit ADRV intentionally, there is no basis under the rules to treat them any differently from an
adult athlete."

This is important because it will prevent nonsense like what happened in 2002 from happening again.

Doping is illegal regardless of age, but the rules for responding to a doping violation treat minors differently.

The CAS ruling was very clear that in this case, she was not to be treated differently according to the rules.

Whoever put the team together must have known about the positive test,

How? Results didn't come back until after the team event. Timeline:

Kamila Valieva Olympics doping case: Breaking down the timeline

Teen skater Kamila Valieva was found guilty of an anti-doping rule violation and sentenced to a 4-year ban beginning Dec. 25, 2021.

www.wbaltv.com

 

[airgelaal]

Statement by the Russian Olympic Committee is disgusting

Официальное заявление ОКР — Олимпийский комитет России

 

[Sparks]

I would like to request mine without trimetazidine, thanks!

May I have with a little bit of TMZ? Thanks

 

[Hedwig]

Statement by the Russian Olympic Committee is disgusting

Официальное заявление ОКР — Олимпийский комитет России

What does it say? Maybe even edit it in so they don’t get so many clicks

 

[airgelaal]

What does it say? Maybe even edit it in so they don’t get so many clicks

by Google-translate

The Russian Olympic Committee carefully studied the press release published by the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne (CAS) on the case against Kamila Valieva, to whom the most severe sanction was applied in the form of disqualification for a period of 4 years.

We know that the interests of our athlete in this case were represented by qualified lawyers who specialize in disputes in the field of sports, including anti-doping. We have no doubt that all available reasons and arguments were presented as fully as possible to the knowledge of the CAS arbitrators.

Unfortunately, the CAS decision is negative, however, it has long been impossible to count on the objectivity and impartiality of this international structure, and we know this from the example of those cases where the ROC itself is involved as a party, including in the case of our removal on the grounds decisions of the IOC Executive Board.

For two years in the public space there has never been a meaningful answer, supported by facts, and not ridiculous replies, to a question that was initially the subject of great doubt - why Valieva’s doping test, taken in December 2021, was kept for a month and a half in a Swedish laboratory, despite all established deadlines.

Of course, one can believe in a coincidence when the test result was made public immediately after the end of Russia’s victorious team figure skating tournament. As if by pure coincidence, the ISU will make a decision on approving the Olympic tournament medals on February 7, the day of the 10th anniversary of the Games in Sochi. In fact, war was declared on Russian sports, and, as we see, all means are good.

With regard to the gold medals of our figure skaters, the Russian Olympic Committee has repeatedly emphasized that, in accordance with the applicable rules, the results of team competitions at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games do not depend on the outcome of the consideration of the individual case of Kamila Valieva, and the awards won by our team in Beijing cannot be legally reviewed subject to

CAS did not consider the issue of team outcome in this process. This is the prerogative of the ISU and the IOC. The ROC will closely monitor further steps and decisions of international sports organizations and, if necessary, will take appropriate measures to legally protect Russian interests.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

there's no reason to disqualify the entire team

The reason is to discourage doping. Otherwise teams are incentivized to dope one or two members - if they don't get caught the team wins, but if they do get caught, the team still doesn't lose. It doesn't matter how dopey or fake or meaningless this particular event is. If it's a team event, the athletes must compete and win, lose, or be disqualified as a whole.

 

[marbri]

All this talk about what a travesty it would be for Canada to get bronze had me going back to see how bad they really were. Certainly Roman was a tragedy but the rest were more or less where they could expect and Schizas actually exceeded expectations Roman getting a medal is not much different than Tim Koletto getting a medal and we surely aren't going to argue Japan don't deserve silver/bronze because their ice dance team is not worthy. Are we?

FTR, I don't have strong feelings on this and won't lose sleep over the final decision. Although I do tip in favour of Russia being disqualified but certainly not for any perceived national bias on my part. That I can swear on.