USFS ISP Points Challenge- Sep and Oct 2020

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
Messages
22,175
Allelujah for Hubbell/Donohue Free Dance

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I like them but they are just going nowhere since 2018-2019 with their selections, ok Allelujah is a warhorse as of lately but I don't know if this safe choice can make an impact for their cause, they were lucky because of the situation with the vir...s and worlds cancelled last season so they did not suffer a lost in reputation/ranking with their programs but I was hoping this season they would surprise us make an statement like Chock/Bates did with their #LadySnake

But Madi & Zach picked a safe theme very much alike 'A Star is Born' FD from last season

Hope they can make the best out of this but I have my doubts

ITA...H/D a total snooze once again but, then again, I’ve never found them to be the most aesthetically beautiful. An earthy aesthetic...I prefer airy. 🧚‍♀️
 

thvu

Usova's Apprentice
Messages
8,515
What is up with the Wheaton teams? Terrible packaging again. Green and Parsons have a program that is a major step down in terms of concept and difficulty. Their debut FD was far better. And then there's McNamara and her new partner... sigh. It's like they're trying to emphasize how new they are, and her lack of fluidity. The Wheaton school needs an outside perspective, and fast. They do so many things well, but this is Ice Dance, and the packaging is always going to hold their teams back.

Sigh, and then there's C&P. It's such an Igor program. Full of stop and start transitions. Nothing is actually integrated. The difficult transitions look difficult for the sake of being so, instead of difficult for the sake of musicality or integration into the program. And of course, the program builds to nothing. Whatever Camerlengo does, it must be getting washed and Igorfied.

At least the Montreal teams have competent (yet boring) programs. I'll take elements and choreography that actually take the music into account over everything else we've been seeing. H&D's FD is safe enough for a medal at worlds. Their skating looked very good. They're even learning how important the choreographic elements are (though, that last choreo lift will not get more than +3 from the judges. It needs editing.)

I hate how we are in another situation where Chock and Bates are the ones who might save US Ice Dance from being a hard ask to watch...
 

haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
Messages
9,011
I was finally able to watch the Ladies FS. Bradie did a nice job this time but I've seen her FS twice and I can't remember anything about it. Also she hasn't really upped her tech content since she came on the scene but just having what she does has been enough for a national medal, so kudos to her I guess! I do applaud her for practicing a 3ax and making a coaching change that she feels could help that. Whether it does help or not, we shall see.

I feel similarly about Alysa's program. I think Alysa is doing what she can here and I'm impressed to see her even getting close on 3-3's, but this change is just how it goes. We can't judge her for growing. For the last 2 years she has had almost an unfair advantage with being able to rotate those quads and 3axel so easily. I don't think USFS or judges were "propping her up" more than they would anyone else with that jumping prowess. Nor do I think they are "sending her a message" or "dumping her" now - she is just doing less and scoring less as a result. Sure her PCS were too high the last few years but so was Trusova, Zhou, so many others. PCS are almost completely meaningless, but occasionally they are applied fairly and that helps things. I don't think being senior as a 12 year old was a mistake- I think she properly recognized that she was capable of winning some national titles and making history so she did it. She may have to get used to finishing lower these days, but I hope she gets something out of these new coaches. If I'm her, I would maybe take some time to become a true artist and not really worry about competing. She could squeeze onto a junior world team but I wouldn't predict a medal again. Would be weird to see her season end at Nationals but then so could everyone's...

Mariah's program is starting to feel more complete and sensible- I think one less music cut would help. I totally see why they want to keep each song in there but it is such a strange mishmash of songs and the cuts are super jarring/not blended well. I think she sort of handed this to Bradie with all those jump errors but she did so well last time that I think she can afford it. Also wondering where her world ranking will go without a 3axel or quad.

AMBER GLENN! We are all so carefully trying to avoid getting too excited by her but man, with Alysa somewhat out of the way, she has really inched herself to be right in with Bradie and Mariah at the top. Second to Karen for top US short program score this season. Third to Mariah and Bradie for the top free skate score. Really nice expression in the free program and that 3axel in practice looks awesome. I'm so happy for her and to be honest she is our best skater right now.

Karen Chen- she could once again be National champion without changing much, but there were a few misses here. That said, she does hold the top SP score of the season at 73, so let's see how this goes. By no means is she to be counted out, she is too good.

Audrey Shin- huge congrats to her after missing out on Nationals 2020, now having the 4th highest SP and 8th highest FS, she has been super solid. She will need something to stand out from the crowd at some point, but good showings this year.

Paige looked somewhat anemic in the FS- I wonder if Titanic wears her out or if she was just tired that day, usually I find her more special to watch with her big jumps and charming expression. Pooja had a bit of an off comp here, not sure why but she's been competing a lot, maybe too much. Lindsay Thorngren, another who should join Alysa learning about creative dance and improving skating skills, has enough to finish 6th in the country but could do more than that one day.

Gracie- I am really encouraged by some added attention to detail in this FS- it feels more of a performance than last time. Also love that she upped the final lutz and flip from a single to a double. And that her SP video was much higher quality, nice program. These are steps in the right direction. I assume the first combo is intended to be 3z-3t. Then 3f, 3r, 2ax, 2ax, 3z, and 3f again. Perhaps one of those 2axels is meant to be in combo. She clearly has these jumps but just needs conditioning or something to hit them more consistently. Even though she has been scoring in the 80s, I don't see her being that far from top 5. Would need a 3axel or something to push her higher than that. Her skating is still really special and I could see this FS being a real wow moment if she can hit that 3loop going into the big sweeping musical moment. I wish more skaters would put effort into choosing original music that speaks to them and really tells a story with the choreo like this. I hope other skaters are paying attention and getting inspiration from this rather than just seeing her as "not doing as well as before". I'm interested to see how Skate America goes.

All in all, US ladies are not looking competitive with the top Russians but compete just fine with Japan and the rest. I am enjoying the fluidity in standings at the top right now. Remains to be seen how Young You and Eunsoo and others are stacking up.
 
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lurkz2

Well-Known Member
Messages
143
Mariah's program is starting to feel more complete and sensible- I think one less music cut would help. I totally see why they want to keep each song in there but it is such a strange mishmash of songs and the cuts are super jarring/not blended well. I think she sort of handed this to Bradie with all those jump errors but she did so well last time that I think she can afford it. Also wondering where her world ranking will go without a 3axel or quad.
Those jump errors might be because it was a very ambitious program; I have never seen Mariah attempt both 3Lz3T and 3F3T in the same program before. The fact that Raf allowed this layout is a positive sign doesn't he say first you hit it in practice then you hit it in competition?

Given the difficulty of travelling to Canada, I wonder if Alysa ever considered training under Rafael. Yes Raf has Mariah, but he did successfully coach Adam Rippon and Nathan Chen at the same time.
 

honey

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,288
Those jump errors might be because it was a very ambitious program; I have never seen Mariah attempt both 3Lz3T and 3F3T in the same program before. The fact that Raf allowed this layout is a positive sign doesn't he say first you hit it in practice then you hit it in competition?

Given the difficulty of travelling to Canada, I wonder if Alysa ever considered training under Rafael. Yes Raf has Mariah, but he did successfully coach Adam Rippon and Nathan Chen at the same time.
Seems clear that she threw in the 3T on the lutz after not having attempted it on the flip at the start. She’s already doing two flips and two lutzes, so no way she was planning on two triple toes as well.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
Messages
22,175
Funny, because I think H/D are looking very airy in this FD, which is, as you say, a contrast to their usual aesthetic.

The theme is airy but H/D have to work against their physical dimensions (as a couple) to pull-off “breezy and light.” If there’s little height difference between the two, there are only so many types of lifts and spins in the repertoire...
 

litenkyckling

Well-Known Member
Messages
797
The theme is airy but H/D have to work against their physical dimensions (as a couple) to pull-off “breezy and light.” If there’s little height difference between the two, there are only so many types of lifts and spins in the repertoire...
I have to say I totally disagree - but I don't think we should be discussing their physical dimensions in this context anyway because this seems to be erring on body shaming here...
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
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22,175
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SkateFanBerlin

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1,607
Mariah seems a total professional now. When there are mistakes she immediately snaps back and hits the next element. The kind of bullet-proofing Adam developed in the last years of his competitive career. Also, her PCS is coming up; she looks good throughout.

I think Bradie had harder combos in the Opp 1. This layout looks like last years. Wasn't that great but this is a year of development. Good for her to keep moving forward.

I dont get the excitement about Amber. More controlled than I've seen her but generally looked generic.

Karen C. is still a lovely skater and looked pretty in shape here. Wish she could get her technical content up a notch or two. Become competitive with Japanese ladies.

Different subject. Why didn't Vincent skate? Didn't all top skaters have to?
 

Sylvia

TBD
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80,461
Different subject. Why didn't Vincent skate? Didn't all top skaters have to?
No one in the ISP had to participate in the Points Challenge. Vincent Zhou mentioned in a recent interview I posted in his fan thread that he was planning to compete in opportunity #2. AFAIK, skaters are allowed to decide whether or not to submit their videos for judging and perhaps he recorded them and then elected not to submit?
 
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olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,905
Hats off to C/J in pairs.

I had the pleasure to listen to Dave Lease and Jonathan Beyer on TSL. Jonathan said that C/J weren't 'going anywhere' [paraphrase] in their last broadcast :rolleyes: I was like they finished 4th at 4CCs and actually ahead of MT/M in the LP. WTF?
 

RoseRed

Well-Known Member
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2,141
I've rewatched H/D too and I'm still not a huge fan. Unsurprisingly though, Twitter is all over it just because Scott Moir choreographed it, even though a lot of the choreo/lifts/twizzles aren't even that different/different at all to previous programs. Had MF choreographed it, I bet people would be complaining about how it being uncreative and ordinary, but because it's him, it's suddenly a masterpiece :slinkaway
Well that's funny, because I really enjoyed it and I completely forgot that Scott was involved at all. So maybe some people just, gasp, like it for genuine reasons?
 

bcash

Well-Known Member
Messages
493
I've rewatched H/D too and I'm still not a huge fan. Unsurprisingly though, Twitter is all over it just because Scott Moir choreographed it, even though a lot of the choreo/lifts/twizzles aren't even that different/different at all to previous programs. Had MF choreographed it, I bet people would be complaining about how it being uncreative and ordinary, but because it's him, it's suddenly a masterpiece :slinkaway

I'm a fan of theirs but the first viewing (via a grainy video) left me no particular impression. Their SD back in 2016 was beautiful and beautifully paced/proportioned. This feels like a dilution. And I was thinking oh I hope it’s not Scott Moir rubbing the blandness of V/M vanilla programs off on them.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
Messages
22,175
Just finished watching ALL Sr disciplines, all segments.

LADIES: Already wrote about this. Still in awe of Amber Glenn’s LP. I appreciate Bradie’s lovely LP more so in Rnd2...and surely Philip Glass is composer of the season in the US (Bradie, Nathan, Hawayek/Baker, et al)? Karen Chen was fantastic, too...and I may have placed her 4th, above Liu, overall...but they were very close.

MEN: Totally loved Nathan’s two programs even more this time! (Great filming too...by same person who filmed Mariah and top pair C/J?). Beside Chen, I loved Tomoki Hiwatashi! Sorry that we couldn’t hear Krasnozhon’s music...he looked good, too.

DANCE: Spectacular new FS from Hawayek/Baker...more Philip Glass tunes, I think. Glad that they’ve kept their disco RD. So much fun. I’ve already written about H/D...not my fave team but a much better RD this year...Daddy’s been sent to Siberia forever, let’s hope.

PAIRS: Wowee, Calalang /Johnson! Absolute tops for the USA and surely knocking on the World top 5? Two exquisite programs from C/J. Knierim/Frazier fine...they have promise as a new team. Cain-G/LeDuc ok; I love their classical look and program in the free...enough of the unitard-only edgy style! Sigh for Kayne/O’s errors; beautiful programs, especially lifts. Lu/Mitrofanov improving.

All said, I’m a fan of this ISP “Points Schmoints!” Hurrah for Team USA!!!
 
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Sylvia

TBD
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80,461
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Sylvia

TBD
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80,461
Article by Brandon Penny:
Excerpts:
"It was definitely exciting," Bell said. "These were great opportunities for us, and we were so fortunate to have them. In a normal year, we would have had Champs Camp, where it would be behind closed doors and no one would see; it would be your opportunity to get your program out. This year we were given these opportunities, which is awesome. I felt like it's a Champs Camp that was shared."
Prize money was also awarded, with senior singles ranging from $15,000 for each winner to $2,000 for fifth place, and $20,000 to the top pairs/ice dance teams through $3,000 for fifth. Junior winners earned $3,000, while second and third claimed $2,000 and $1,000, respectively.
"I saw comments before I even talked to the judges, which was weird," he [Nathan Chen] said. "But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. At the end of the day I want to be aware of what people are saying, what fans are saying, but the decision still remains within my coaching team. … Overall there's positives and negatives. I think the negative comments that I have received are actually quite helpful because they're much more quantifiable and I can actually apply them to my skating."
Hubbell noted the Points Challenge served as a test run before Skate America, which will be held Oct. 23-24 in Las Vegas.
"The feedback will be invaluable going forward, and just to kind of remind ourselves that we know how to do it," she said. "It took us by surprise actually how nervous we were, even though we were just doing another run-through in our own skating rink. But it was the first time in almost eight months that we had something that would count for a score, so it's been a long time."

Re. Rydberg & Kang being named to Skate America (excerpted from a post in the GP Selections thread):
I am really encouraged by Paige Rydberg (who just lost out on the 4th spot [bye] to Nationals to Lindsay T. by less than a point, but she will have another chance later this season) and Joseph Kang being named as a result of their ISP scores. I think this holding a virtual ISP would be a good way to determine assignments every season, provided they are adding the most competitive skaters to to the ISP based on strong showings in other competitions. By and large, they've done a great job and I can't complain much.
...at least some element of current ability was used to make assignments, which could revamp how things are done in the future...
 
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skatingcheckers

Well-Known Member
Messages
95
I really like H&D FD ... love the smoothness, the long edges, the flow. Works so nicely with the music. It might be one of my favorite H&D programs. I really like this team ... I'd love them to do well. I've never really liked C&B ... can't stand that fake "personality" stuff from Madison, and Evan does absolutely nothing for me.
 

nuge

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,132
I watched HD new FD. It was very nice that's all. Nothing new we haven't seen before. I just don't think they have chemistry for light and airy FDs. They're strong powerful skaters .
 

Sylvia

TBD
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80,461

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
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14,561
honestly... no they aren't.

I'm not saying they won't get there someday, but right now, it's not close.


It depends on which Russian and Chinese pairs we're talking about.

Tarasova/Morozov, Boikova/Kozlovskii, Sui/Han are in their own class, at least as of last season.

However, if Calalang/Johnson skate as they did in the Challenge opportunities, I believe they can compete with any other Russian or Chinese teams.
 

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