U.S. Men in 2018 - articles & latest news

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^^^ Thanks for providing the ISU Quick Quotes files index link, @Tavi!

4CC U.S. Men's FS videos and quotes overnight...

Warm-Up Group 2
...
12 Grant HOCHSTEIN USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAnUpujGERA
Photos tweeted rinkside of "Team USA [Jason, Tarah & Danny] celebrating Grant's performance": https://twitter.com/pandaatlarge/status/957138052769394688

His quick quotes afterwards:
I feel complete. This is obviously the program I was looking for at Nationals, but I had another opportunity to come here and skate. The short program wasn’t so great, but I feel like I can finish the season feeling very proud of myself and
accomplished. At US Nationals I was very emotional and I wasn’t today. I think I got all my sadness out of me and I did this one for myself. I was very in the moment.
(on his teammates Tarah Kayne, Danny O’Shea and Jason Brown coming to the Kiss & Cry area to cheer for him) They’re my best friends and they’re going to be in my wedding in the summer.
(on his future plans) Caroline (Zhang), my fiancée is here and we’re going to Hong Kong for a few days and then we have a wedding to plan. We teach skating, so we have a lot of work to do with the kids. We have a lot of really talented skaters that we teach. We have girls making the final round of our regionals and girls doing double Axels and triples.


Warm-Up Group 4
19 Jason BROWN USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxtt1O6S3Zo

His quick quotes: I feel great. You know it’s been a tough year I feel like I’ve been chasing something all year. When I got assigned with this event, I (know that I) just can be me. And I want to be me, the best I can be me. Kind of embrace who I am, love who I am. I went out there, and it wasn’t trying to prove anything or trying to be someone I wasn’t. It wasn’t an easy road to get here.
(on returning to “The Scent of Love”) I love this piece of music, so it’s really exciting to go back to. My goal for next year is to skate with all my heart.
(On preparing for the Free Skating) I was just using the day in between and continue to build my confidence and my strength. And I come out and kind of look at today as a new slate.


20 Max AARON USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuMUUcQfg6o

His quick quotes: I feel great out there, I just wanted a good performance. I enjoyed it, try to finish, and looking forward going home and spending time with my family.
(on the competition) I love Taiwan, it’s great there, and I was just happy to give a performance I guess, you know, U.S. championships was tough and I was left off the (Olympic) team, but I’m excited to be here to perform one more time in the season.
(On next plans) I don’t know yet. I take every season year by year, so after this season I want to go back, relax, just enjoy with my family. Whether I want to continue on competing or whether I want to step forward, and retire – I really just take it day by day right now and feel how my body feels and my mind.


FS scores:
3 Jason BROWN USA 179.44 87.88 91.56 8.89 8.96 9.25 9.25 9.43 0.00 #19
4 Max AARON USA 171.30 91.02 80.28 8.18 7.68 8.21 8.11 7.96 0.00 #20
9 Grant HOCHSTEIN USA 155.59 76.57 79.02 7.79 7.64 8.11 7.93 8.04 0.00 #12

Final results:
3 Jason BROWN USA 269.22 4 3 (ISU Season Bests in FS & Total)
5 Max AARON USA 255.45 6 4
11 Grant HOCHSTEIN USA 226.39 15 9 (ISU Season Bests in FS & Total)
 
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Quick Quotes after the Short Programs in Taipei on Jan. 25:

Grant [70.80, 15th]:
I had a great short program in the U.S championship [4th place] and that was only two weeks ago, so of course I’m disappointed (about my performance today). But I gave everything I had, I didn’t give up, and I kept pushing, pushing and pushing. It just didn’t happen.
(on coming to Four Continents) I love Taipei. My fiancée (Caroline Zhang) is here, so she’s been the tour guide and translator, because my Chinese is very poor. I can survive but not (speak) well. I think what people need to realize also is that it’s more than just about going up lanes [transcription error?] and jumps. It’s about making memories and having a long, great career. This is just another memory tag in my book.
I want to feel proud of myself when I finish whether that’s winning the free skate or finishing 24th. I’m proud of what I did today. It was obviously not my best and I can do much better. But I’m proud of the fight that I had. I will fight harder and do better in the free.


Max [84.15, 6th]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n7YUy2R0Pk
It was a little shaky on the first quad toe combination. But I really just come here to perform, to give a great performance that everybody enjoyed. I feel like I gave a good performance. Not technically perfect but an enjoyable performance. And I’m looking forward to Saturday again [enjoying] that performance, and making the crowd enjoy, and just show what I love to do. Coming here is more like that I can perform and enjoy, and so I was able to do that, and I’m really happy about that, and to end the season this way, on this note.

Jason [89.78, 4th]:
I had so much fun on my ice tonight. I know I had a little fall out on the triple Axel. But I went forward, I did not hesitate and hold back. Something that kind of upset me in the season is that hesitation. I came here today and I was not going to hesitate. It was huge and exciting. The crowd’s energy was amazing. Oh my God I heard it (the cheering from the audience), I felt it, and I’m just so touched. It has been a blast being out (on the ice) here and being able to be in front of such an awesome crowd.
(Whether he feels tired coming here right after the National) I wouldn’t really use the word “tired.” Nationals in the U.S. was little bit a disappointment. It not always your day when you are out there and compete. (I have been) picking myself up and try to get the energy back.
(On the fans) They are just amazing. It’s my first ever in Taiwan. Amazing. I’m obviously loving it here. So many of my friends have competed here before and I’ve never had the opportunity to come. (I’m glad to have the chance) being here and just getting to understand what they talked about (Taiwan) and how much they love it. And to be here, I completely understand why.


ETA:

Jason's 4CC Gala performance to "Waving through a Window" from Dear Evan Hansen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxW_5HVcwuk
 
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I watched Grant's free skate on YouTube and was blown away by how good he was. At first, seeing that he wound up only in 11th place, I assumed he had messed up a lot. But his performance was very energetic and elegant as always, great music and choreo that builds up. It's wonderful for Grant Hochstein to end on this note, if he is retiring. I wish there could have been a lot more medals given out to all the guys!
 
A slightly different topic -- for the US men who don't have a quad yet, I wonder if they could consider adding more jump difficulty the Zagitova way -- putting even more jumps in the second half, tackling a 3 loop to a triple for a 3-3 combo, or adding more features to a jump. Zhou and Johnson are doing a triple lutz - triple flip sequence which is great. Kevin Van DP in his height, managed a 3-3-3 that allowed him to attempt 9 triples.

I guess that's why Adam is doing a 3 loop combo in the long and getting partial credit for rotating a quad lutz. It has worked for him.

Just some thought to the US men who want to stay competitive.
 
A slightly different topic -- for the US men who don't have a quad yet, I wonder if they could consider adding more jump difficulty the Zagitova way -- putting even more jumps in the second half, tackling a 3 loop to a triple for a 3-3 combo, or adding more features to a jump. Zhou and Johnson are doing a triple lutz - triple flip sequence which is great. Kevin Van DP in his height, managed a 3-3-3 that allowed him to attempt 9 triples.

Just some thought to the US men who want to stay competitive.

Adam is doing this, adding the 3F-3L to good effect in his LP. I'm dying for him to do it in the SP.
 
If I recall, Jason told someone at the Friends of Figure Skating breakfast at Nats that he’s continuing. Per this article (also featuring quotes from Jason) Max is unsure of his plans right now.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/01/27/265431394/

So happy for all three US guys that they did so well here!

ETA oops the article above doesn’t have the Max quote but I’ll edit it in when I find it.

Here it is:

http://cloud.isu.org/index.php/s/pDN5aUhkXQQl4hZ


So -

Adam - Probably retire after this season due to age and achievements (making the Olympic team finally). We will probably receive some sort of announcement on his plans after Worlds.

Alex J. - See above. Same age as Grant

Grant - Retired

Ross - Will probably retire; said as much during the GP this past season

Max - Unknown; will take it day by day

Jason - Will continue per comments at Nationals

Joshua - Retired due to injury

Nathan - Will continue

Vincent - Will continue

Of course, all of our Juniors, Krasnozhon, Pulkinen, Hiwatashi and Torgashev will continue and fill the shoes of those men leaving active competition.

ETA #1 - Tim D. - I forgot about him. I think he will continue. He did recently move to the Cains in TX to up his ante
 
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So Max may yet continue...oh please, I hope he does. Please just give it one year more...his performances here showed he is more than capable of still producing brilliance. I think my favourite part of his whole performance was when he launched into the ChSq with that brilliant smile on his face.
 
For the risk of opening old wounds, 4CCs justified IMO the USFSA selection process and choices for alternates. I don’t think Ross would’ve touched Jason here. He could’ve also chosen to compete but declined but maybe it doesn’t matter, as I believe he is retiring. Still, he could’ve tried, done well and given the USFSA the proverbial finger

I don't think Ross would have touched Max here, either. Max and Jason were really on.

Speaking of alternates, if Ross has withdrawn from 4CC and the reason given was that he wasn't continuing, has he withdrawn from being second alternate, then?
 
I don't think Ross would have touched Max here, either. Max and Jason were really on.

Speaking of alternates, if Ross has withdrawn from 4CC and the reason given was that he wasn't continuing, has he withdrawn from being second alternate, then?

I would assume Ross did not give up his spot as second alternate. Just because he gave up the chance to compete at 4cc's due to not continuing next year wouldn't really have any bearing on whether or not he would be able to compete at the Olympics in that unlikely event. I would assume he would train until Worlds just in case. Ashley didn't give up her alternate position and she didn't go to 4ccs.
 
Still, he could’ve tried, done well and given the USFSA the proverbial finger

Ross already stated his intention to retire at the beginning of the season. He had his best overall event performances in many years at U.S. Nationals after giving it everything he had all season long. His career had been hampered by injuries in recent years, so this was a good season for him with some excellent program music choices and choreo. 2018 U.S. Nationals is especially a nice personal victory for Ross after he'd skated and placed well in the sp the previous two seasons at Nationals, and then fell to fifth after the fp.

I don't think Ross needed to 'try' for anything at 4CCs in order to prove anything nor to give USFS 'the finger.' Ross doesn't have anything to prove, and he's not the type of guy to give anyone 'the finger.' He's not been selected for the Olympics which was his ultimate goal. Since Ross was planning to retire after the season, 4CCs was not important as a consolation prize or opportunity to skate again for the heck of it. Unlike the guys who didn't have a great Nationals, Ross didn't need 4CCs to try and go out on a high note. He'd already achieved his high note. Only making the Olympic team would have been icing on the cake. Of course it's another slam to make Ross only 2nd alternate to Worlds, but since the best reward would have been the Olympics for Ross, the worst slam of all is making Ross only second alternate to the Olympics! If they weren't going to name Ross to the Olympics as the Nationals silver medalist, he should have been made first alternate for the Olympics over Jason!

With being rejected for the Olympics, there was no incentive nor any cost-benefit in Ross traveling all the way to Taipei for 4CCs. And Ross doesn't really need to go to Worlds either since this is his final season. Another factor: international judges seem less inclined to give talented U.S. skaters like Ross and Grant much leeway in the marks, whereas Jason tends to be highly rewarded when he skates fairly clean, so to that degree it makes sense to send Jason as first alternate to Worlds. But the Olympics is more standalone and I still think Ross deserved to be named to the Olympic team. They simply didn't want to name two older veterans not known to have consistent quads, and so Ross never figured in USFS' plans.

Adam and Jason have had more success internationally in recent years than Ross, and they also both made GPF so they were the go-to, preferred guys behind Nathan. Vincent was on the bubble behind Adam and Jason mostly because he did not have a good GP season. But Vincent clearly was preferred over Max, Grant and Ross pre-Nationals. Ross performing clean programs over everyone did not budge USFS' thinking because their minds were already made up. If Adam is planning to continue for at least another year, then he will likely be going to Worlds, as will most likely Nathan and Vincent, so the Worlds alternate issue in that case is moot, even though the naming of alternates is important and necessary.
 
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Ross already stated his intention to retire at the beginning of the season. He had his best overall event performances in many years at U.S. Nationals after giving it everything he had all season long. His career had been hampered by injuries in recent years, so this was a good season for him with some excellent program music choices and choreo. 2018 U.S. Nationals is especially a nice personal victory for Ross after he'd skated and placed well in the sp the previous two seasons at Nationals, and then fell to fifth after the fp.

I don't think Ross needed to 'try' for anything at 4CCs in order to prove anything nor to give USFS 'the finger.' Ross doesn't have anything to prove, and he's not the type of guy to give anyone 'the finger.' He's not been selected for the Olympics which was his ultimate goal. Since Ross was planning to retire after the season, 4CCs was not important as a consolation prize or opportunity to skate again for the heck of it. Unlike the guys who didn't have a great Nationals, Ross didn't need 4CCs to try and go out on a high note. He'd already achieved his high note. Only making the Olympic team would have been icing on the cake. Of course it's another slam to make Ross only 2nd alternate to Worlds, but since the best reward would have been the Olympics for Ross, the worst slam of all is making Ross only second alternate to the Olympics! If they weren't going to name Ross to the Olympics as the Nationals silver medalist, he should have been made first alternate for the Olympics over Jason!

With being rejected for the Olympics, there was no incentive nor any cost-benefit in Ross traveling all the way to Taipei for 4CCs. And Ross doesn't really need to go to Worlds either since this is his final season. Another factor: international judges seem less inclined to give talented U.S. skaters like Ross and Grant much leeway in the marks, whereas Jason tends to be highly rewarded when he skates fairly clean, so to that degree it makes sense to send Jason as first alternate to Worlds. But the Olympics is more standalone and I still think Ross deserved to be named to the Olympic team. They simply didn't want to name two older veterans not known to have consistent quads, and so Ross never figured in USFS' plans.

Adam and Jason have had more success internationally in recent years than Ross, and they also both made GPF so they were the go-to, preferred guys behind Nathan. Vincent was on the bubble behind Adam and Jason mostly because he did not have a good GP season. But Vincent clearly was preferred over Max, Grant and Ross pre-Nationals. Ross performing clean programs over everyone did not budge USFS' thinking because their minds were already made up. If Adam is planning to continue for at least another year, then he will likely be going to Worlds, as will most likely Nathan and Vincent, so the Worlds alternate issue in that case is moot, even though the naming of alternates is important and necessary.

Yeah. I didn't mean literally give the USFSA the finger. My point was that if Ross or his team still felt Ross wuz robbed, he could've gone to 4CCs to prove Nationals wasn't a fluke. His coaches do seem to think he got the shaft, so going and backing it up would've been a statement to the USFSA. Others who were in the same boat, retiring or thinking about it (Max and Grant) went to 4CCs and made it count.
 
I don't think there was anything for Ross to prove at 4CC. It wasn't his skates at Nationals 2017 that kept him off the Olympic squad. I'd have been happy if he'd chosen to go, but I totally understand why he might not have felt it was worth it physically, mentally or financially. Jason, Max & Grant made different choices, and that's fine too.
 
If he chooses to continue, I'd very much like to see Latin from him again. Perhaps even Roxanne (though a better cut than this and no lyrics).
Please no more MR! :scream:

But I would love another Latin program from Max - it is a shame that his one outing with the Spanish SP went so badly. I think he has a very charming personality and it would be great to see a program where he could smile instead of being Very Serious.
 
Max would do well to stay away from lyrical selections in the future, IMO, if he decides that he would like to continue competing. However, that is the million-dollar question... Not so sure that he will stick around, but I hope that he does. After the disappointment of missing out on another Olympic Games, what lies ahead may hold more appeal at this stage in his life than the uncertainty of competition. Usually, the athletes you think will retire, don't. The athletes you believe will continue, don't. There is always someone after every quad concludes that does the unexpected. Maybe, this time around, it will be Max.
 
Yeah. I didn't mean literally give the USFSA the finger. My point was that if Ross or his team still felt Ross wuz robbed, he could've gone to 4CCs to prove Nationals wasn't a fluke. His coaches do seem to think he got the shaft, so going and backing it up would've been a statement to the USFSA. Others who were in the same boat, retiring or thinking about it (Max and Grant) went to 4CCs and made it count.

I get your drift @olympic, but I don't think that either Ross or his coaches have that kind of mindset. Why should they? It's rather insulting for people to keep viewing Ross' Nationals performances as some kind of 'fluke.' Neither Ross nor his coaches need to make any kind of amends for USFS' actions and their own resulting reactions. Ross was kicked to the scrap heap rather than being rewarded an Olympic spot. Your bolded viewpoint not only looks down on what Ross accomplished at Nationals this year, it also negates the notable and worthy achievements Ross made over his entire career. 'Going [to 4CCs] and backing it up,' is completely unnecessary. That sounds like something observers on the outside want, like some kind of vengeance. What's the point? There's no 'statement' Ross needs to make to anybody. He believed in himself and he went out there with grit and heart in his final Nationals and showed what he can do at his best. That's enough! He will have that moment forever. What USFS did can not be softened or disguised by focusing instead on what some think Ross and his coaches need to do or should have done in their responses and reactions to the decision.

With the current thinking and BOW criteria, other deserving skaters like Matt Savoie who were very talented but not highly regarded internationally might also not have been named to the Olympic team.

I think what happened to Ross is a very sore spot issue that most people apparently are ready to forgive, explain away, ignore, blame Ross and his coaches for, instead of keeping in mind that USFS did not set up a clear BOW plan and fully explain how it would be applied. Plus they mishandled the men's Olympic selection press conference IMO. Also there's the issue of the judging (lots of conflicting things that went on). Apparently some fans are tired of hearing about or even discussing the matter. It's true that nothing can be done and there isn't any point in belaboring the matter except to try and understand what actually happened, where things went wrong and why, as well as to truthfully assess the questions that the decision and its aftermath have raised. Like I've said, the way this was handled and the questions it raises are going to continue resonating. As usual USFS can continue trying to sweep it under the rug, and continue acting like they removed Ross for Adam. The reality is much more complicated and less straightforward than that.

I agree with the points you've made @barbk.
 
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Max would do well to stay away from lyrical selections in the future, IMO... if he decides to continue...

I tend to agree that so-called 'lyrical' or 'balletic style' programs don't actually show off Max's strengths as a skater very well. It was interesting to see Max's junior Nats and JGP programs, since I hadn't followed him back then. I'd seen a bit more of Josh and Jason as juniors (but not their very young juvenile and intermediate performances :D).

The Latin flair Max showed as a junior brings to mind his more exciting 'bullfighter' short program which he briefly tried but eventually replaced with Nessun Dorma (2016 - 2017 season). It seems to me that Max was taken over by the idea of having to change himself to compete 'artistically' with Jeremy, Jason, and Adam domestically. He should maybe have considered more-so further exploring and developing similar stylistic choices and themes to those that brought him his first U.S. National championship: Tron sp and West Side Story fp.
 
Please no more MR! :scream:

But I would love another Latin program from Max - it is a shame that his one outing with the Spanish SP went so badly. I think he has a very charming personality and it would be great to see a program where he could smile instead of being Very Serious.
At the very least no more skaters under 18 performing to El Tango de Roxanne. I saw no fewer than 4 underage skaters at nationals skating to a song about prostitution and trying to "get into character." None would have been preferable.

I would like to see Max skate to something more along the lines of Zorro. Latin and just a bit character driven (since he's trying to increase his interpretation scores). Perhaps also the music from Forever Tango? That's really good as well. I would like to see at least one program without the weird music cuts he always seems to have in his programs.
 
Both Jason and Adam have gotten to a point where they are comfortable with who they are on the ice. I would like Max (if he continues) to skate to something that shows that comfort, whatever that means for him.
 
I get your drift @olympic, but I don't think that either Ross or his coaches have that kind of mindset. Why should they? It's rather insulting for people to keep viewing Ross' Nationals performances as some kind of 'fluke.' Neither Ross nor his coaches need to make any kind of amends for USFS' actions and their own resulting reactions. Ross was kicked to the scrap heap rather than being rewarded an Olympic spot. Your bolded viewpoint not only looks down on what Ross accomplished at Nationals this year, it also negates the notable and worthy achievements Ross made over his entire career. 'Going [to 4CCs] and backing it up,' is completely unnecessary. That sounds like something observers on the outside want, like some kind of vengeance. What's the point? There's no 'statement' Ross needs to make to anybody. He believed in himself and he went out there with grit and heart in his final Nationals and showed what he can do at his best. That's enough! He will have that moment forever. What USFS did can not be softened or disguised by focusing instead on what some think Ross and his coaches need to do or should have done in their responses and reactions to the decision.

With the current thinking and BOW criteria, other deserving skaters like Matt Savoie who were very talented but not highly regarded internationally might also not have been named to the Olympic team.

I think what happened to Ross is a very sore spot issue that most people apparently are ready to forgive, explain away, ignore, blame Ross and his coaches for, instead of keeping in mind that USFS did not set up a clear BOW plan and fully explain how it would be applied. Plus they mishandled the men's Olympic selection press conference IMO. Also there's the issue of the judging (lots of conflicting things that went on). Apparently some fans are tired of hearing about or even discussing the matter. It's true that nothing can be done and there isn't any point in belaboring the matter except to try and understand what actually happened, where things went wrong and why, as well as to truthfully assess the questions that the decision and its aftermath have raised. Like I've said, the way this was handled and the questions it raises are going to continue resonating. As usual USFS can continue trying to sweep it under the rug, and continue acting like they removed Ross for Adam. The reality is much more complicated and less straightforward than that.

I agree with the points you've made @barbk.

No. I’m not ‘looking down’ on Ross where you bolded the phrasing in my earlier post. I could have a chosen a softer word like ‘outlier’, but that is what it was, and it was not the norm given his recent competitive history.

I get the point that he had nothing to prove. I agree that it is his choice. Maybe I was projecting what I would have done in his shoes: Try to prove them wrong but everyone approaches life situations differently.
 
Please no more MR! :scream:

But I would love another Latin program from Max - it is a shame that his one outing with the Spanish SP went so badly. I think he has a very charming personality and it would be great to see a program where he could smile instead of being Very Serious.
NOT Roxanne, but something Latin, yes. That SP seemed so well suited to him; I can't recall what the reason was for not carrying on with it. Latin has the right amount of 'assertive' and 'strength' for Max's style.
 
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