U.S. Men 2024-25 news & updates

[KCC]

I think Jason found his new skates. Hope he breaks in a backup pair for next year.

 

[zebobes]

Well, the rest of the US men, there's basically only one Olympic spot left to fight over... and you guys better figure out how you'll get your ducks in a row.

 

[Private Citizen]

Happy to have been wrong on Brown and called myself out for it at least 2x on the Worlds forum.

Brown is not a lock for the Olympics, but the other guys need to come out with good skating and ideally GP medals in the fall. Peaking at Nationals, but with no body of work outside of it, is not going to work for Camden, Naumov, Ma, etc. Perhaps I’m naive, but I do think one or two of them could knock Brown off the team. They cannot do so simply by skating a blinder at Nationals, though.

Ma probably has the best shot. He has a 4CC medal. If he backs it up with a GP medal or two, consistent skating in the fall, and defeats Brown at Nationals, I think he’ll get the nod. But all three things need to be true. 2 out of 3, and the nod may legitimately go to Brown.

 

[Tavi]

Happy to have been wrong on Brown and called myself out for it at least 2x on the Worlds forum.

Brown is not a lock for the Olympics, but the other guys need to come out with good skating and ideally GP medals in the fall. Peaking at Nationals, but with no body of work outside of it, is not going to work for Camden, Naumov, Ma, etc. Perhaps I’m naive, but I do think one or two of them could knock Brown off the team. They cannot do so simply by skating a blinder at Nationals, though.

Ma probably has the best shot. He has a 4CC medal. If he backs it up with a GP medal or two, consistent skating in the fall, and defeats Brown at Nationals, I think he’ll get the nod. But all three things need to be true. 2 out of 3, and the nod may legitimately go to Brown.

I don’t think anyone besides Ilia is a lock, and it’s especially hard to guess how Jason will do next season. But I’m curious what your thinking is on Jimmy, because at least for now, he doesn’t strike me as super competitive. Yes he took bronze at two international competitions this year, but his scores were pretty low (245 at 4CCs, 237 at Cranberry Cup & at 2025 Nats, and 229 at Lombardia). That’s maybe a little better than he’s done in the past, and of course next season he could do even better. But for reference, his 4CCs score would only have been good enough for 12th at Worlds this year.

 

[Vagabond]

In a way US is in trouble because we don't know who can be relied on for 2026 worlds if Ilia and Jason don't go.

But then perhaps we don't deserve three spots if no one skates well there

As long as there are three U.S. men with the TES minimums, "we" deserve the spots.

 

[skatfan]

Will Max leave the sport? It would be sad and understandable but I didn't know that he would leave competitive skating.

I heard that the Skating Club of Boston is working to find him all the paid work that they can. Not many orphans can fund elite training. We’ll see.

 

[kwanfan1818]

At this point, I'm assuming that, barring disaster or unexpected good skates, JPN, USA, and ITA will be in the TE Finals, with GEO, FRA, and CAN among the other two spots? If Malinin doesn't want to skate both programs, given that the Men's individual event is so early, on whom do you rely in the FS?

Brown was 4th in the FS in Boston, even if the pressure in the TE is so uneven, since for some skaters, it's a warm-up. Would I have expected him to beat both Japanese Men in the FS? No: I was nervous for Kagiyama this season, but I didn't think he would beat himself that badly in the FS, and in the TE, his stellar SP score wouldn't matter to the FS scores. However, it may come down to a point or two, and if Brown is able to skate well in the GP's, his PCS ceiling goes up from the 92 he got at Worlds, which gives him a little cushion for calls that don't go his way. If Ma can skate like he did at 4C's in the Fall, he should start to get retroactive credit in PCS.

Torgashev's record at Worlds is 21/skip/22. Even if he in the offseason can get another quad, and can perform three different quads and one in combination and beats almost everyone in the Fall, I'm not sure USFS would want to trust him with a spot in the TE, especially if a medal was on the line.

If Brown is consistent in the GP's, I don't see two US Men who will have a better BOW, and certainly no two who have proven to skate under pressure aside from Nationals.

 

[Karen-W]

@kwanfan1818 - that's something I've been thinking about too since last night. That 4th place finish in the FS really does make me feel like he's the best option we have for the 2nd man in the TE. Shaidorov won't be in the TE, and I don't think Siao Him Fa will be either because France won't make it to the TE FS segment. There's little doubt in my mind that Jason can handily beat Egadze & whomever Canada has. He may have a challenge from the Italian man, but only if that guy is completely on fire & electric with the pressure on to win Italy's first TE medal. That leaves whichever man Japan puts in the TE - and I'd take those odds for Jason.

And you know what? At this point, if the USFS wants to put him in the TE and gift him with another TE Olympic medal (hopefully gold), I'm down with that.

 

[Allskate]

Perhaps I’m naive, but I do think one or two of them could knock Brown off the team.

One wouldn't be enough. There would need to be two. And, IMO, one of those two would somehow have to show that they are either likely to medal in the individual event or show that they are someone the team could rely on in the team event. (Or, of course, Jason would need to show that he is having really significant problems such as injury.)

 

[Private Citizen]

But I’m curious what your thinking is on Jimmy, because at least for now, he doesn’t strike me as super competitive. Yes he took bronze at two international competitions this year, but his scores were pretty low (245 at 4CCs, 237 at Cranberry Cup & at 2025 Nats, and 229 at Lombardia). That’s maybe a little better than he’s done in the past, and of course next season he could do even better. But for reference, his 4CCs score would only have been good enough for 12th at Worlds this year.

IMO would've-been-12th v. Brown's 8th isn't a huge enough difference to overturn National results, especially if it's backed up with a better autumn 2025-26 (speculation) and a 4CC medal the previous season.

One wouldn't be enough. There would need to be two. And, IMO, one of those two would somehow have to show that they are either likely to medal in the individual event or show that they are someone the team could rely on in the team event. (Or, of course, Jason would need to show that he is having really significant problems such as injury.)

I'm assuming Torgashev would be the other, and that his Worlds free skate won't be disqualifying if he has a good fall season.

Again, my three tests are:
1) better fall season than Brown, AND
2) beats him at Nationals, AND
3) at least one GP medal

Those won't be easy, but aren't impossible.

 

[skatfan]

@kwanfan1818 - that's something I've been thinking about too since last night. That 4th place finish in the FS really does make me feel like he's the best option we have for the 2nd man in the TE. Shaidorov won't be in the TE, and I don't think Siao Him Fa will be either because France won't make it to the TE FS segment. There's little doubt in my mind that Jason can handily beat Egadze & whomever Canada has. He may have a challenge from the Italian man, but only if that guy is completely on fire & electric with the pressure on to win Italy's first TE medal. That leaves whichever man Japan puts in the TE - and I'd take those odds for Jason.

And you know what? At this point, if the USFS wants to put him in the TE and gift him with another TE Olympic medal (hopefully gold), I'm down with that.

I think there’s a good argument to having 2 dance teams, 2 women, and one pair and man. Then we avoid worrying about the second man.

 

[nylynnr]

I heard that the Skating Club of Boston is working to find him all the paid work that they can. Not many orphans can fund elite training. We’ll see.

Due to the tragedy kind people have donated considerable money to Max via GoFundMe. In addition USFS has raised funds for the families. Shishkova & Naumov ran their own school within SCOB which Max will likely either run, or take a leadership role in. It's possible he will be okay financially in the short-term.

 

[Allskate]

I'm assuming Torgashev would be the other, and that his Worlds free skate won't be disqualifying if he has a good fall season.

Again, my three tests are:
1) better fall season than Brown, AND
2) beats him at Nationals, AND
3) at least one GP medal

Those won't be easy, but aren't impossible.

Given Torgashev's showings at his two World Championships, I really doubt USFS would want to put him in the team event. Jason has repeatedly stated that he is not going to push his body hard in the fall and is going to peak at Worlds. So, using fall performance as a factor doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think there’s a good argument to having 2 dance teams, 2 women, and one pair and man. Then we avoid worrying about the second man.

If it weren't for the timing of the men's event, that would make sense. But, given the timing, I don't think Ilia is going to want to do both the short and long.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm assuming Torgashev would be the other, and that his Worlds free skate won't be disqualifying if he has a good fall season.

I don't think his Worlds FS is going to help his cause - it certainly does him no favors when it comes to the TE selection, which should certainly be a factor in the Olympic team selection since we know Ilia will only be doing the SP.

Again, my three tests are:
1) better fall season than Brown, AND
2) beats him at Nationals, AND
3) at least one GP medal

Those won't be easy, but aren't impossible.

Sure, but are there two US men who have it in them to accomplish all three of the above? Of the men who have been effing around the past half-dozen years with terrible fall results & terrible 4CCs/Worlds results but a really good Nats result, only Jimmy & Torgy have produced any type of results this season, and I'm not convinced that two good GPs for Torgy and one good 4CCs for Jimmy mean much of anything when we've been through something similar with Camden showing up at Worlds 2022 on short notice & finishing 5th. And of the younger guys - both Lucas & Jacob have potential, but the likelihood of them beating Jason at Nats is pretty slim, IMO.

 

[Karen-W]

I think there’s a good argument to having 2 dance teams, 2 women, and one pair and man. Then we avoid worrying about the second man.

As @Allskate pointed out, the schedule for the figure skating events in Milano absolutely rules out Ilia doing both segments. I was misremembering the schedule & just looked it over again (saved on my phone already, lol).

Friday Feb 6 - TE Day 1 (should be Dance RD, Pairs SP & Women's SP)
Saturday Feb 7 - TE Day 2 (Men's SP & Dance FD)
Sunday Feb 8 - TE Day 3 (Pairs FS, Women's FS & Men's FS)
Monday Feb 9 - Dance RD
Tuesday Feb 10 - Men's SP
Wednesday Feb 11 - Dance FD
Friday Feb 13 - Men's FS
Sunday Feb 15 - Pairs SP
Monday Feb 16 - Pairs FS
Tuesday Feb 17 - Women's SP
Thursday Feb 19 - Women's FS

Given the physical requirements of the Men, I don't think that the USFS or Ilia's team will wear him out in both segments of the TE. I can see the argument for 2 dance teams though, but using CarPon over ChoBat gives up points unnecessarily and we're probably losing a lot of points to Japan in the pairs segments. But all this talk probably belongs in the 2026 Team Event thread rather than the US Men's thread, lol.

 

[Spiralgraph]

I'm just wondering with three gold medalists in the four disciplines for the US, what would be the pecking order as to which skater or team gets to decide first whether they want to skate either the SP or the LP/FD or both?

I remember Nathan chose to skate only the SP, and the Shibs decided in 2018 to do both. So who gets to decide first? I guess TPTB would strongly suggest what they want and whatever pair team is in the TE would have no choice, they have to do both. But one of the three world champions has to skate both segments...decisions decisions.

oh dear @Karen-W you're right, better take the discussion over there to that thread.

 

[Allskate]

both Lucas & Jacob have potential, but the likelihood of them beating Jason at Nats is pretty slim, IMO.

And even if both Lucas and Jacob did manage to beat Jason at Nationals, would we really want to have Lucas or Jacob have their first really major senior event be the team event at the Olympics?

I'm glad we have these two young guys. (I hope that Lucas is recovering well from his injury; he is a beautiful skater.) But, I would not want either of them in the team event.

Jimmy has not proven himself to be consistent. I think Max is a beautiful skater and I was rooting for him to medal at Nationals, but he also has not been consistent.

I'm just wondering with three gold medalists in the four disciplines for the US, what would be the pecking order as to which skater or team gets to decide first whether they want to skate either the SP or the LP/FD or both?

I'd be shocked if Ilia didn't have the first choice. He's the MVP, IMO, and his individual competition is early.

 

[cailuj365]

We're still talking about knocking Jason Brown off the team? JB could be absent for all of the fall, and I'd still put him on the Olympic team with his track record of laying down the skates at Worlds/Olympics. Heck, I'd even put him in the Olympic Team Event.

The other US men have the problem that some of the swimmers do at US Trials. They swim American Records at US Trials just to make it on the team and then have problems by the time of the Olympics and don't even make it out of the semi-finals.

 

[On My Own]

@misskarne

 

[tangerine dream]

The other US men have the problem that some of the swimmers do at US Trials. They swim American Records at US Trials just to make it on the team and then have problems by the time of the Olympics and don't even make it out of the semi-finals.

This is a factor in any sport where there is a high level of of national competition. The athletes are forced to peak at the Olympic qualifying event, which messes with timing for peaking at the Olympics.

 

[barbk]

Due to the tragedy kind people have donated considerable money to Max via GoFundMe. In addition USFS has raised funds for the families. Shishkova & Naumov ran their own school within SCOB which Max will likely either run, or take a leadership role in. It's possible he will be okay financially in the short-term.

His folks may have had life insurance. In the longer run, he will receive a significant settlement from the federal government, not that it will ever replace the loss of his parents.

 

[Vagabond]

I'm just wondering with three gold medalists in the four disciplines for the US, what would be the pecking order as to which skater or team gets to decide first whether they want to skate either the SP or the LP/FD or both?

Rock, paper, scissors?

Failing that, I'd let Chock & Bates have first pick based on seniority, and I suspect that they would be sportsmanlike and choose to do only one program.

 

[Allskate]

Bringing this thread back to Ilia for a moment. I think his exhibition is a testament to how hard and successfully he has worked to improve his presentation. Soooo compelling. He could not have done that a two or three years ago.

 

[jlai]

As long as there are three U.S. men with the TES minimums, "we" deserve the spots.

I didn't mean we don't deserve 2026 world spots. I mean if men don't do well enough for 3 spots in 2026 for next year (2027) then the results justify the spots.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'm just wondering with three gold medalists in the four disciplines for the US, what would be the pecking order as to which skater or team gets to decide first whether they want to skate either the SP or the LP/FD or both?

According to the documents, USFS determines the disciplines in order of strength, and then the Olympic team individual members get to decide in order of strength, which is how the Shibs got to decide to do both segments. Those skaters' declarations of program preferences have to be declared in December when putting in the application to participate in Nationals. They can be negotiated or overridden later, especially as the ranking within the disciplines -- this season based on points earned in a lot of comps -- can change after Nationals, but that's what's on paper.

But there's also the language that says (paraphrase) that they won't ruin the chances of an individual medal because of the TE, which means that Chock/Bates shouldn't be forced to do the TE FD and individual RD on two consecutive days, and Malinin won't be forced to do both segments if he and his team thinks that's ridiculous. The Women don't start until 9 days after the TE, and the Pairs 7 days, but it wouldn't matter if the Pairs started first: they are at the bottom of the pecking order.

 

[Allskate]

Failing that, I'd let Chock & Bates have first pick based on seniority, and I suspect that they would be sportsmanlike and choose to do only one program.

It's not really an issue of sportsmanship. They don't want to tire themselves out before their individual competition. There probably are singles skaters who will have a national title and have World medals or a GP Final medal who won't get to skate in the team event, while a dance team who has not done any of those things will get to be in the team event. It's really not about sportsmanship.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The TE Free Dance is the day before the individual Rhythm Dance. Unless C/B are adamant about wanting to compete in that schedule, it will be US #2, looking solidly like C/P, will be the ones doing it.

 

[cailuj365]

Bringing this thread back to Ilia for a moment. I think his exhibition is a testament to how hard and successfully he has worked to improve his presentation. Soooo compelling. He could not have done that a two or three years ago.

I was shocked at that performance. I was crying with him at the end. He's already one of the technical GOATs, but I didn't know he was capable of something like this. That emotion and the way it built was on a different level. Everything was exquisite. His Worlds galas are becoming signature pieces. First HOPE and now this one. Wow.

 

[Karen-W]

Rock, paper, scissors?

Failing that, I'd let Chock & Bates have first pick based on seniority, and I suspect that they would be sportsmanlike and choose to do only one program.

Who knows? There are some people on other forums who claim to have insider knowledge they aren't at liberty to disclose which they assert says the US will split men & ice dance and that's already been decided. This was before Worlds happened & when challenged about the possibility that the US women could upset the applecart, they asserted that there would be no deviation.

Honestly, I don't know how the USFS determines which of the three disciplines is the deepest/strongest.

And, to some extent, I'm not sure it matters when you take into account some of the Team Event's unique factors like the fact that you're only going up against 1 competitor from every other country in each segment and the results are based on points awarded for your entrant's placement in each segment. That requires an objective analysis of the likely entrants in all 8 competition segments & where your best and/or second-best skater will finish relative to the rest of the field.

As I explained above, I would place hard cash on Jason finishing no lower than 2nd in the TE Men's FS - he'd be up against JPN #2, ITA #2, CAN #1 and Egadze. Could Ilia win? Sure, is it worth the 1 additional point gained if it tires him out and he loses the Men's individual gold? No way.

Pairs - presumably KamOShea or another team of similar caliber (EfiMit if she gets her citizenship, ChanHowe if they're healthy) will be doing both segments. The TE will have MiuKih, SDDes, MetBeru, ConMac and, possibly, MiNiki in the SP (and that doesn't even take into account Sui/Li if they're any good & CHN earns a spot at the OQE). There's a very real possibility that the US pairs team is going to finish anywhere from 3rd to 7th, depending on which countries are there. That's a LOT of points lost in the SP. And the FS isn't looking much better with all four of MiuKih, SDDes, MetBeru & ITA #2 (BecGuar?) in the field. Again, the US may finish 2nd or they may finish 5th, with more points being given away that need to be made up somewhere - probably dance.

Women - Right now, we have a good back-and-forth battle between the Japanese women and the US women for supremacy, but skaters like Gubanova, Gutmann, Schizas & the Korean woman in this field are all capable of delivering (see Gubanova & Schizas 2022 TE). Placement could range anywhere from 1st to 6th. The FS segment will be similar with all but KOR there again. The US needs to buttress against any potential points lost - the only other place you can really think we'll be able to make up ground is dance.

Dance - ChoBat would be up against GilPoir, FearGib, GuigFab and possibly FBCiz in the RD, but at this point, you've got to think they're likely winning - meanwhile, YoMori will finish no higher than 7th, so we make up all the possible points lost in the Pairs SP. In the FD - GuigFab are definitely doing both segments. I do think the points are going to be too close between the USA & JPN for the US to want anyone else but ChoBat in the FD, but maybe they leave the decision until after the first day of the TE and they know how the Pairs SP has shaken out points-wise.

It just doesn't make any sense, if ChoBat are willing & want to do both segments, for them to not. But, I can also understand, fully, why they may not want to, with the timing of the events.

FWIW, I really don't get what the IOC & Milano-Cortina organizers were thinking putting Dance in the first week, lol. I'd have had Pairs start the individual events off, followed by the Men, then Dance & Women.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't get it at all: G/F were always going to be their strongest chance of an individual medal, but they also had a shot at a team medal. They had strong-ish and/or up-and-coming Pairs who were strong enough to make the FD/qualify for Olympic spots, plus Hotarek as a coach, but no one else in Dance, and they couldn't have predicted the Tali/Lafortuna team, or that they'd gel so quickly.

Their schedule is set up so that the best shot at a TE medal would have to compete on February 6, 7, 9, 11 according to the Olympics site (so not TE FD one day and Individual RD the next):
https://www.olympics.com/en/news/milano-cortina-2026-complete-figure-skating-schedule

Will no one think of the skating elderly?

The Men have to skate February 7, 8, 10, 13. Which is still ridiculous. But there is little chance of clawing away an ending with the Women from US TV, even if it should end with the Men (because I say so!).