Twice is nice, Three times the charm

skatingguy said:
Patrick used to change one program a season - so one season he'd get a new short program and keep last season's free skate and then the next season it would be a new short program.
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I actually think that's a smart strategy. Unless you are completely sick of both programs or they never really worked and you don't think they ever will, only having 1 new program a season saves money and energy.
 
MacMadame said:
I actually think that's a smart strategy. Unless you are completely sick of both programs or they never really worked and you don't think they ever will, only having 1 new program a season saves money and energy.
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With Patrick I think it was about the time that he takes/took to learn and choreograph his routines and how much detail is there. Keep one program that you're already comfortable with gives more time to learn the new material.
 
Xela M said:
Hindered S&P in 2002?!? :eek: They only won Gold because if it! Since the program was so easy for them to skate. They could never master the more difficult Orchid
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I mean hindered them in terms of the perceived legitimacy of their gold medal. The standard position of most who argued that the medal was awarded because it was fixed rather than earned was that the program was far less difficult than B/S's program, and that B/S deserved the gold even with a few little mistakes because their program was more complex.
 
Clutz said:
There are alot of skaters who have used their programs two years but the only other one I can think of for three years was Viktor Petrenko who used his classical Long Program 1989/90, 90/91 and 91/92. Never really found this program that interesting but it worked.
1990 Worlds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XpHGw1q5ww
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I checked the YouTube clips of his performances around that time. It looks like he also used the same SP for 1990/91 and 91/92. Strategically, this is the same one as Hanyu's and Wagner's.
 
Clutz said:
There are alot of skaters who have used their programs two years but the only other one I can think of for three years was Viktor Petrenko who used his classical Long Program 1989/90, 90/91 and 91/92. Never really found this program that interesting but it worked.
1990 Worlds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XpHGw1q5ww
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Around that era, Petr Barna had the same original/short program for 3 consecutive seasons, which in his case was a good decision considering he was getting 6.0s for it.
 
seabm7 said:
I checked the YouTube clips of his performances around that time. It looks like he also used the same SP for 1990/91 and 91/92. Strategically, this is the same one as Hanyu's and Wagner's.
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Petrenko also brought that sp back in 94 IIRC.
 
Meno and Sand skated to Nessun Dorma in 94/95, 95/96 and then resurrected it in 98.



I'm not sure if this counts but Michelle Kwan's East of Eden was not only used for the second part of 00/01 season as well as the first part of the 01/02 season. Plus she did use it as an exhibition and interpretive program. It was also featured in her 93/94 free skate. Granted it wasn't always the same program and it evolved with her.


Sasha used Dark Eyes not only as her short program in 04/05 and 05/06 but also as a long program in 01/02. Granted her season was cut short that year and it was a different arrangement.
 
Petrenko used the same LP in 90,91,92.
He used Don Quixote LP in 1988 and 89.

Mishkutenok-Dmitriev used the Liebestraum LP in 1991 and 92.
They skated Don Quixote SP in 1992 and 94.

Berezhnaya-Sikharulidze skated to Dark eyes in 1997 and 98 but the 98 version was quite different and more demanding. In 1997 Elena had just restarted her pairs career after the serious injury.

Kurt Browning used Casablanca in 1993 and 94.
IIRC he used the same LP in 1989 and 90, but I am not sure about this.

Michelle Kwan used the Rachmaninoff SP in 1998 and 2002 (I think).
I think she used the Spartacus SP two years in a row (2004 & 2005?)

Ashley brought back her 2012 LP for the 2014 Olympics (good decision).

Did Kawaguti-Smirnov skate to Manfred Symphony two seasons in a row?

I think Johnny Weir may have skated to Otonal more than one season.

Drobiazko-Vanagas used the same FD two years in a row and paid the price. Ice dance is the only discipline where recycled programs are frowned upon.
 
Vash01 said:
Petrenko used the same LP in 90,91,92.
He used Don Quixote LP in 1988 and 89.

Mishkutenok-Dmitriev used the Liebestraum LP in 1991 and 92.
They skated Don Quixote SP in 1992 and 94.

Berezhnaya-Sikharulidze skated to Dark eyes in 1997 and 98 but the 98 version was quite different and more demanding. In 1997 Elena had just restarted her pairs career after the serious injury.

Kurt Browning used Casablanca in 1993 and 94.
IIRC he used the same LP in 1989 and 90, but I am not sure about this.

Michelle Kwan used the Rachmaninoff SP in 1998 and 2002 (I think).
I think she used the Spartacus SP two years in a row (2004 & 2005?)

Ashley brought back her 2012 LP for the 2014 Olympics (good decision).

Did Kawaguti-Smirnov skate to Manfred Symphony two seasons in a row?

I think Johnny Weir may have skated to Otonal more than one season.

Drobiazko-Vanagas used the same FD two years in a row and paid the price. Ice dance is the only discipline where recycled programs are frowned upon.
Click to expand...
Michelle used The Feeling Begins for 2002/2003 (three competitions) and 2003/2004 (two competitions). Spartacus she only used one season 2004/2005 (two competitions).
 
Japanfan said:
I mean hindered them in terms of the perceived legitimacy of their gold medal. The standard position of most who argued that the medal was awarded because it was fixed rather than earned was that the program was far less difficult than B/S's program, and that B/S deserved the gold even with a few little mistakes because their program was more complex.
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That is actually the opposite of what happened. Sale and Pelletier were originally awarded silver. The Russians won gold and many thought it was fixed for them not the Canadians.
 
How did this thread get to page 2 without a mention of Petrova & Tikhonov's "Four Seasons" that was skated at least once in a total of... four seasons (or more?). GPF having two LPs was the cause for 1-2 of these seasons, but I think we all saw that program fifty-eleven times.
 
giselle23 said:
Didn't Patrick Chan use Take Five for multiple seasons?

True, back in the day. How many times did Janet use the Lenore Overture as the ending of her program? But at least for her last competitive performance she did something new--Ravel's La Valse combined with Debussy. I think it was her best program.
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Yes, Take Five was a perennial fave of Patrick's.

When Janet skated, it was not a huge deal to repeat programs. Working out extensively off-ice and having choreographers, and costume designers, and agents, and fitness trainers, and physical therapists, and sports psychologists, was not the necessity that it is today. Heck, skaters were lucky if they could attract wealthy donors to help fund their training and travel expenses. Of course they didn't travel as much as skaters do today, but it was still costly.
 
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DimaToe said:
Didn't Cynthia Phaneuf always keep both programs for 2 seasons?
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Yes, she always did (for her senior career anyway). The year she won nationals for the first time in 2004, those were the same two programs from the previous year. She got new programs for the 04/05 season, then didn't compete 05/06. Had the same programs for 06/07 & 07/08, 08/09 & 09/10 and finally for 10/11 & 11/12.
 
Thanks @honey for clarifying.

It might interesting to discuss when keeping the same program for more than 1 season paid off, and when it didn't. The example that comes to mind is Jeremy Abbott and his Muse LP. It got him to his 2nd Olympic Games and got him his second top 5 at worlds.
 
This isn't the first Olympic year Wagner has gone back to a previous free program, either.
In 2014, she returned to Sampson & Delilah from the previous season.
Her first program, Romeo and Juliet wasn't getting the positive feedback she and her team had hoped.
 
I understand that music is merely the vehicle to place elements, and choreograph linking components between them.
But I would love to get inside the judges' heads and know what they really think, when a skater or team returns to a previous selection.

My concern is, do they think, "Oh, we've seen this before. Show us something new to indicate how you are growing as a skater and an artist."

Back in the day, of course, Elvis Stojko felt completely comfortable with his style. No matter the music, from around 1995 onwards, it was the same thing over and over.

I did love his Far and Away and Dragon free skates, though.
 
An example of when it worked: Jeff Buttle got his Olympic bronze by going back to a revamped version of Samson & Delilah (actually placing 2nd in that segment).
I know many many people were disappointed by this move, since his Glenn Gould FP would have been a masterpiece if he'd ever skated it to its potential.
 
How many seasons did Todd Eldredge skate to "First Night"?
I know he brought it back at least once.

Elvis used 1492 for 2 seasons I think.... I think he recycled "Dragon" at least once...

Then there's Phillipe Candeloro with "The Godfather"

Sasha usually kept her short programs "My Sweet and Tender Beast" Maleguena and , Dark Eyes were all used as a short program two seasons and she perfected them.
 
Eeyora1 said:
Elvis used 1492 for 2 seasons I think.... I think he recycled "Dragon" at least once...
.
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Yes, Stojko used 1492 twice. It was the free skate in the 94/95 season and he brought it back for GPF and worlds in the 95/96 season. He had another lp for the 95/96 season, Last of the Mohicans, but ultimately went back to the 1492 program in the later part of the season.

And he bought Dragon back for the 01/02 season (along with bring back his 98 olympic sp).
 
Michelle Kwan only used Spartacus for one season, but she did use "The Feeling Begins," "Rach" and "East of Eden" for more than a season. In fact, she had at least three very different programs to "EoE" -- my favorite being the World Pro version one user once called "a meditation in spirals."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYwAZb14Ags (one of the greatest programs of all time)

Nicole Bobek had two versions of her Russian folk dance SP. Both were stunning, but my favorite was the version she won the SP at 1995 Worlds with.

I think Kyoko Ina had the same "Miss Saigon" short her entire senior career, albeit with completely different elements and choreography. Ditto with Jennifer Don.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39hHJQk0WcY (spectacular layback)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48UETz9eEk8 (bad skate)

Nancy Kerrigan regularly re-used her programs and really liked that Neil Diamond music, using it as far back as 1989.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkwS7iHfTbI
 
essence_of_soy said:
I understand that music is merely the vehicle to place elements, and choreograph linking components between them.
But I would love to get inside the judges' heads and know what they really think, when a skater or team returns to a previous selection.

My concern is, do they think, "Oh, we've seen this before. Show us something new to indicate how you are growing as a skater and an artist."

This is really why I
Click to expand...

all_empty said:
Michelle Kwan only used Spartacus for one season, but she did use "The Feeling Begins," "Rach" and "East of Eden" for more than a season. In fact, she had at least three very different programs to "EoE" -- my favorite being the World Pro version one user once called "a meditation in spirals."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYwAZb14Ags (one of the greatest programs of all time)

Nicole Bobek had two versions of her Russian folk dance SP. Both were stunning, but my favorite was the version she won the SP at 1995 Worlds with.

I think Kyoko Ina had the same "Miss Saigon" short her entire senior career, albeit with completely different elements and choreography. Ditto with Jennifer Don.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39hHJQk0WcY (spectacular layback)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48UETz9eEk8 (bad skate)

Nancy Kerrigan regularly re-used her programs and really liked that Neil Diamond music, using it as far back as 1989.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkwS7iHfTbI
Click to expand...
 
Sorry if I just posted something wacky looking...I am a newby to this board and failed at doing quotes!

As Scott Hamilton always says, the judges are the first row of the audience and after seeing a program so many times, they have to get tired of it just like the audience does. I fear with Ashley someday she is going to fly away and the judges will be like go on girl.

Also, Nicole Bobek actually used that opening musical segment FOUR years in three different programs. There are some videos of it from 1993 as well!
 
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