Transparency of yuzu

[CaliSteve]

I disagree about GoE: Judges did not seem to know what "bullet points" are, or which are supposed to be pre-requisites for +4 and +5. Many criteria for PCS components appeared similarly ignored. And I was appalled by the Tech panel.

Bear in mind, this is also about hypothetical clean vs clean programs ie. with both skaters fully fit, and able to train/prepare adequately beforehand.

Bullet points are meant to be guidelines and are subjective.

If Hanyu would have completed the 4S or at least a 3S his PCS would have been higher and that probably would have led to higher PCS in the free. Also, Yuzu skated before Nathan in the free so the judges held back PCS. This happens all the time not just with Yuzu.

 

[YesWay]

Bullet points are meant to be guidelines and are subjective.

They are not meant to be just guidelines:

The idea of having bullet points for elements in the first place, is to make GoE assignment as objective as possible, and minimise subjectivity.

They are a part of a complete set of rules and guidelines that are meant to be followed, unless there is something extraordinary about the execution of an element, that justifies the judges using their discretion to step outside of the guidelines.

There isn't supposed to be a "guidelines card" that judges can play, to use as a free pass, to make everything "subjective" when it suits them... allowing them to disregard the rules, the guidelines, the bullet points and the PCS criteria... and do whatever they like... whatever suits their agenda...

But indeed, all too often, that is what we seem to have now, more than ever. Which was kind of the point.

(By the way, it's the Tech Panels too. The rules in the Technical Panel Handbook are apparently being treated as just "guidelines")

 

[ShuPa]

They did it with all the alot of the jumps not just the 4A.

The loss in BV was the biggest in the case of 4A though:

4A - 16.7%
4Lz - 15.4 %
4F - 10.6 %
4Lo - 12.5 %
4S - 7.6 %
4T - 7.7%

And interestingly, the most difficult jump that Yuzuru currently has, the 4Lo lost more in BV than the 4F for example.

 

[MAXSwagg]

The scaling is better but the valuations are still severely effed up for some jumps.

 

[thvu]

I’d be surprised if @YesWay understands the Technical Panel Handbook for singles skating in any meaningful way.

 

[Tahuu]

I “am” a fanyu.

Whenever Hanyu loses, it’s because of the corrupt ISU, crooked USFS, shady judges, incompetent TP, soft ice, injuries from last year. There are always excuses.

ISU’d be dammed if they include Hanyu’s photo in their promo/tweet/insta because it’s a clickbait or be dammed if they don’t because it’s a slight to Hanyu.

Hanyu is the most artistic skater in the world. Never mind he is increasingly skating and dressing femininely, which may be not the taste of others for a male skater.

Hanyu was, is, will still be the only goat because he is a 2x Olympic champ. Never mind Olympic figure skating gold is 51% luck and 49% strength.

I join a change.org campaign asking ISU to throw Eric Radford out of the Athletes Commission because he doesn’t agree with me. Never mind it shows my stupidity.

I applaud Patrick Chan a changed man because now he praised Hanyu. Never mind I used to cry him bad-mouthing Hanyu and slam him when he posted an IG of being kicked in the ribs by Hanyu.

Hanyu has landed 4A since 2014. You Dmitriev, Messing are jokes trying to land the first 4A in competition.

I want to throw a brick at my tv whenever they mention Yale but not my Hanyu's Waseda online degree.

 

[YesWay]

I’d be surprised if @YesWay understands the Technical Panel Handbook for singles skating in any meaningful way.

I “am” a fanyu.

Ad hominem attack: the last resort for people who have no argument.

 

[CaliSteve]

The loss in BV was the biggest in the case of 4A though:

4A - 16.7%
4Lz - 15.4 %
4F - 10.6 %
4Lo - 12.5 %
4S - 7.6 %
4T - 7.7%

And interestingly, the most difficult jump that Yuzuru currently has, the 4Lo lost more in BV than the 4F for example.

Bt you can get a higher GOE, which Yuzu has the capabilities to achieve.

 

[CaliSteve]

They are not meant to be just guidelines:

The idea of having bullet points for elements in the first place, is to make GoE assignment as objective as possible, and minimise subjectivity.

They are a part of a complete set of rules and guidelines that are meant to be followed, unless there is something extraordinary about the execution of an element, that justifies the judges using their discretion to step outside of the guidelines.

There isn't supposed to be a "guidelines card" that judges can play, to use as a free pass, to make everything "subjective" when it suits them... allowing them to disregard the rules, the guidelines, the bullet points and the PCS criteria... and do whatever they like... whatever suits their agenda...

But indeed, all too often, that is what we seem to have now, more than ever. Which was kind of the point.

(By the way, it's the Tech Panels too. The rules in the Technical Panel Handbook are apparently being treated as just "guidelines")

My point is that even with the bullet points, it cant give you 100% objectivity. It should reduce subjectivity but not 100%.

 

[ShuPa]

Bt you can get a higher GOE, which Yuzu has the capabilities to achieve.

My point was to show that the 4A had the biggest loss of BV which is interesting considering that this is the only quad that no one ever landed yet because of its difficulty. It is also noteworthy that the difference between 4F and 4A is only 1.5 point while before that it was 2.7. I think the difference between these jumps and the 4A should be higher.

And may I add that there is also a reason why less skaters attempted the 4Lo so far. It is a very difficult jump to do for the men, so I don't agree with lowering its BV by more than the BV of 4F or with having only 0.8 or 1 point difference in BV to the 4S or 4T.

GOEs are a different matter though. Yuzuru is capable of high GOEs, that's right.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I “am” a fanyu.

Whenever Hanyu loses, it’s because of the corrupt ISU, crooked USFS, shady judges, incompetent TP, soft ice, injuries from last year. There are always excuses.

ISU’d be dammed if they include Hanyu’s photo in their promo/tweet/insta because it’s a clickbait or be dammed if they don’t because it’s a slight to Hanyu.

Hanyu is the most artistic skater in the world. Never mind he is increasingly skating and dressing femininely, which may be not the taste of others for a male skater.

Hanyu was, is, will still be the only goat because he is a 2x Olympic champ. Never mind Olympic figure skating gold is 51% luck and 49% strength.

I join a change.org campaign asking ISU to throw Eric Radford out of the Athletes Commission because he doesn’t agree with me. Never mind it shows my stupidity.

I applaud Patrick Chan a changed man because now he praised Hanyu. Never mind I used to cry him bad-mouthing Hanyu and slam him when he posted an IG of being kicked in the ribs by Hanyu.

Hanyu has landed 4A since 2014. You Dmitriev, Messing are jokes trying to land the first 4A in competition.

I want to throw a brick at my tv whenever they mention Yale but not my Hanyu's Waseda online degree.

Very goofy-minded post, sir.

 

[antmanb]

And may I add that there is also a reason why less skaters attempted the 4Lo so far. It is a very difficult jump to do for the men, so I don't agree with lowering its BV by more than the BV of 4F or with having only 0.8 or 1 point difference in BV to the 4S or 4T.

I don't know I think to only have a small difference between the 4S and 4T is fair enough. People are generally split on which they find easier and it will come down to preference for edge or toe jumps as to which is easier for any particular skater so i'm ok with that change.

Loop, flip and lutz, however, I disagree with how much they have been devalued, and they should all have been devalued by the same percentage. But if you're going to argue some kind of conspiracy against Hanyu because of the 4Lp being devalued, I don't think that works, because the 4Lz took the biggest hit in terms of being devalued and that is the jump that Hanyu's more likely competitors were using when the scales were adjusted.

That the 4A was devalued so much is absolutely ridiculous - firstly its a completely aspirational jump at this point. I don't know how Hanyu is getting on with it, but I don't think I've seen any skater manage to get more than round four times to forwards. It should still carry a huge point score and when you look at every level down the jump from 1Lz to 1A, 2Lz to 2A and 3Lz to 3A the step up to the A reflects the fact that Axel is so much harder than the other jumps.