The Skating Lesson 2018/2019

MK's Winter

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Well first- they can’t sue him for having an opinion. They also can’t sue him for posting a public record. So that’s moot.

Jonathan said this in regards to their platform: “So many skaters get mad that a platform like TSL exists. But in any other art form or sport, it is healthy and normal. Dave and Jenny initially brought ME back to the sport and thousands of others. It has helped grow fan bases that buy tickets and donate to the memorial funds!”

Which I agree with. TSL does not exist for the skaters but for fans of their coverage. If anything the interviews have made some of the skaters more like-able to the public. And yes- some skaters don’t like them- and some skaters do. And sorry not sorry- if a skaters need go on Twitter, Facebook, a message board, TSL to intentionally look for some kind of validation or criticism- quit being so self involved. These skaters see their protocols, have coaching teams- you know what you need to do. Go do it. The internet isn’t going to solve your problems or give you a hug. Turn to the people you hold close and dear.

And in closing- for the millionth time. If you don’t like it, agree with it, etc. Don’t watch it. It’s really that simple.
 

Tony Wheeler

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Well first- they can’t sue him for having an opinion. They also can’t sue him for posting a public record. So that’s moot.
That’s my initial thought, as well. But I’ve heard plenty of stories through the years how he’s bullied his way into trying to get insider info and/or became nasty with people that don’t give him what he wants. So maybe it’s more than just what was actually visible to the public.

Jonathan said this in regards to their platform: “So many skaters get mad that a platform like TSL exists. But in any other art form or sport, it is healthy and normal. Dave and Jenny initially brought ME back to the sport and thousands of others. It has helped grow fan bases that buy tickets and donate to the memorial funds!”
And you are going to disagree with my broken record here, but this whole comment is ludicrous when (yes, here I am bringing up this example again) Jonathan threw the biggest tantrum imaginable when people told him, in other words, that they don’t want to be friendly with someone involved with such a negative platform. How is that any different than skaters or people in the sport being annoyed? It isn’t different.

Which I agree with. TSL does not exist for the skaters but for fans of their coverage. If anything the interviews have made some of the skaters more like-able to the public. And yes- some skaters don’t like them- and some skaters do. And sorry not sorry- if a skaters need go on Twitter, Facebook, a message board, TSL to intentionally look for some kind of validation or criticism- quit being so self involved. These skaters see their protocols, have coaching teams- you know what you need to do. Go do it. The internet isn’t going to solve your problems or give you a hug. Turn to the people you hold close and dear.
Please. Almost everyone wants to know what is being said about them and skaters of course want to know how people feel about what they’ve worked hard to present. I’m not sure that your suggesting that everyone toughen up is a great lesson for those who are underage and maybe haven’t learned fully how the world works.

I think criticizing the skating technique or program concept or something that’s actually put on the ice is fine. But you and I both know it extends way beyond that constantly.

ETA here- and if you don’t want to go that route, then go your own way but don’t be shocked with backlash when people give it back to you. Sitting in a bathroom crying doesn’t fit the narrative of people having to deal with criticism.

This is very Mean Girls. Someone is nasty to everybody and talks about everyone, and then she gets hit by a bus and everyone starts to feel bad because she changes her ways and wants to play nice.
 
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MK's Winter

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That’s my initial thought, as well. But I’ve heard plenty of stories through the years how he’s bullied his way into trying to get insider info and/or became nasty with people that don’t give him what he wants. So maybe it’s more than just what was actually visible to the public.



And you are going to disagree with my broken record here, but this whole comment is ludicrous when (yes, here I am bringing up this example again) Jonathan threw the biggest tantrum imaginable when people told him, in other words, that they don’t want to be friendly with someone involved with such a negative platform. How is that any different than skaters or people in the sport being annoyed? It isn’t different.



Please. Almost everyone wants to know what is being said about them and skaters of course want to know how people feel about what they’ve worked hard to present. I’m not sure that your suggesting that everyone toughen up is a great lesson for those who are underage and maybe haven’t learned fully how the world works.

I think criticizing the skating technique or program concept or something that’s actually put on the ice is fine. But you and I both know it extends way beyond that constantly.

ETA here- and if you don’t want to go that route, then go your own way but don’t be shocked with backlash when people give it back to you. Sitting in a bathroom crying doesn’t fit the narrative of people having to deal with criticism.

This is very Mean Girls. Someone is nasty to everybody and talks about everyone, and then she gets hit by a bus and everyone starts to feel bad because she changes her ways and wants to play nice.
It’s not a lesson of being tough. It’s stay away from what you consider negative. Is that such a concept? I don’t think so.
 

Tony Wheeler

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It’s not a lesson of being tough. It’s stay away from what you consider negative. Is that such a concept? I don’t think so.
Seeing how Dave goes on tangents all the time about how just about everything in skating is negative and awful and eye-roll worthy, maybe that’s a lesson for him as well, no?
 

pinky166

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I like TSL for camp factor and find that Dave is a good journalist regardless of his personality. I personally find Dave and Johnathan funny and informative. I don’t think anything they’ve said on the show is that controversial especially regarding the John Coughlin stuff. There was no convicting going on...
 

MK's Winter

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Seeing how Dave goes on tangents all the time about how just about everything in skating is negative and awful and eye-roll worthy, maybe that’s a lesson for him as well, no?
So he’s not allowed to have an opinion? I also don’t recall him wishing anyone to die. Is he supposed to pretend that skating is fun and fluffy and doesn’t have its issues? His delivery is pretty consistent. And it’s his channel. Like I said- if you don’t like it- don’t watch it.
 

arakwafan2006

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No one would have wanted to see that trash at Nationals anyways. I think death threats are inappropriate and don’t wish that on anyone. However David Lease and the Skating Lesson is nothing but trash and the sole purpose was be bully’s and demeaning to all athletes that were not there flavor of the day. It’s good he didn’t appear and frankly it’s easy for him to post his trash but a lot of people would have probably made sure he knew he was not welcome at Nationals and quite frankly he should stick to his day job

Posts all that trash then wants to run and hide. Had the nerve to pretend like his only reason for covering JC was to keep kids safe. You can’t be Aunt Joyce AND Kristine Brennan buddy. That shit he used to write will never be forgotten and he hasn’t changed ... it’s a shame because his obsession with the sport means we get to hear from legends but, oh damn well...
 
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Tony Wheeler

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So he’s not allowed to have an opinion? I also don’t recall him wishing anyone to die. Is he supposed to pretend that skating is fun and fluffy and doesn’t have its issues? His delivery is pretty consistent. And it’s his channel. Like I said- if you don’t like it- don’t watch it.
He’s absolutely allowed to have an opinion, and he shares them freely and often. But then he wants to make friends with those same people that he is ripping apart and/or doing the reverse, and that’s why many of them became engaged in the argument to begin. It’s not like *all* of them randomly came across TSL.

This would be a different topic of conversation if it was Aunt Joyce Live or something, where the jokes were plentiful and the delivery was different. But you want to involve skaters and hardcore fans into learning more about the judging system and through interviews (let’s remember, it’s called The Skating Lesson) and then the argument from many of you becomes ‘well don’t watch then’ when he takes the 180 degree turn in the next video. That is not a consistent delivery by any means.

Anyways- my initial reply was to counter Jonathan’s argument and to hopefully get more insight into what the lawyer/plaintiffs have to go against him.
 

MK's Winter

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He’s absolutely allowed to have an opinion, and he shares them freely and often. But then he wants to make friends with those same people that he is ripping apart and/or doing the reverse, and that’s why many of them became engaged in the argument to begin. It’s not like *all* of them randomly came across TSL.

This would be a different topic of conversation if it was Aunt Joyce Live or something, where the jokes were plentiful and the delivery was different. But you want to involve skaters and hardcore fans into learning more about the judging system and through interviews (let’s remember, it’s called The Skating Lesson) and then the argument from many of you becomes ‘well don’t watch then’ when he takes the 180 degree turn in the next video. That is not a consistent delivery by any means.

Anyways- my initial reply was to counter Jonathan’s argument and to hopefully get more insight into what the lawyer/plaintiffs have to go against him.
It really doesn’t though. There are a few different platforms, maybe not as popular, but there are others. Ice Talk, what you do, other YouTube users. Even though it’s limited, there are other choices. All I am saying is people can exercise options. They should do so. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

As far as lawsuits- let’s be real. If they had something legit, they would have done it by now. Skaters are shown on NBC, the ISU channel, other world channels and streams. They are public figures. They can’t sue him anymore than the NE Patriots can sue half of America (apparently lots of people want them to lose and hate Tom Brady) because opinions hurt feelings.

And that is probably as far as I am going to engage with you in regards to this. We obviously have different opinions. And that’s cool. We don’t have to think alike. So do you boo boo.
 

kosjenka

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Please. Almost everyone wants to know what is being said about them and skaters of course want to know how people feel about what they’ve worked hard to present. I’m not sure that your suggesting that everyone toughen up is a great lesson for those who are underage and maybe haven’t learned fully how the world works.
sigh...

Yes, pretty much everybody wants to know what others think of them, but it is a huge problem when one values strangers opinions more than those close to them. People on forums, twitter, Facebook or whatever people use - that is bunch of strangers who happen to have small tunnel vision into an individuals life. It is like using sources to write a paper - you check where the information is coming from, how qualified is the author, what is the publication like ect. Not everything is worth the time and a read. For a skater, TSL is not the source for their fan feedback or how good of a skater they are.

TSL and platforms alike should not be important to skaters regarding who they are as people, how hard the work ect. Thats what friends are for. Family you may get, friends you make on the base of who you are.
I dont think TSL should give skaters lessons in what to take to heart and mind. It is very clear who TSLs primary audience is.
 

essence_of_soy

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sigh...

Yes, pretty much everybody wants to know what others think of them, but it is a huge problem when one values strangers opinions more than those close to them. People on forums, twitter, Facebook or whatever people use - that is bunch of strangers who happen to have small tunnel vision into an individuals life. It is like using sources to write a paper - you check where the information is coming from, how qualified is the author, what is the publication like ect. Not everything is worth the time and a read. For a skater, TSL is not the source for their fan feedback or how good of a skater they are.

TSL and platforms alike should not be important to skaters regarding who they are as people, how hard the work ect. Thats what friends are for. Family you may get, friends you make on the base of who you are.
I dont think TSL should give skaters lessons in what to take to heart and mind. It is very clear who TSLs primary audience is.
So true.

One FSU member ripped my head off when I questioned Christine Brennan's professionalism and values as a journalist and a reporter. My issue is that she is aligning her brand, no doubt built up over many years of hard work, with a loose-cannon blogger with few credentials, who throws public tantrums and Twitter rants when things don't go his way. Lease has pulled the plug (for the moment), and she's left cleaning up the litter tray.

There is a difference between constructive criticism (coming from the likes of Ted Barton and Debbie Wilkes) and public shaming (along the lines of Perez Hilton), a separation TSL doesn't seem to get.

Skating is a niche sport, and I have to wonder how Brennan was treated by the skaters and her colleagues at the recent national championships in Detroit, too.
 
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kosjenka

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Brennan was professional in her writing about Safe Sport and skating in past month. What she has said at TSL (the special episode that is now back online) was also okay from journalist perspective. I see no problem with her regarding this particular case.
I am not sure I would agree there is a high level of constructive criticism in reporting about figure skating in English language. Here and there someone who covers skating does write or say something valuable. The majority of "old school" content is some sort of PR of the sport, the organization or athletes. I would say that posting public information about arrest and investigation is the most journalistic thing TSL has done, if we take aside interviews (some were very professional, but pretty much all are insightful and have content guests never elaborated or even talked about before).

Hell must have frozen over since I am the one "defending" TSL. Maybe I am also biased since hiding information about sexual misconduct affected my childhood and teens and I have 0 tolerance to stuff like this.
 

essence_of_soy

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Brennan was professional in her writing about Safe Sport and skating in past month. What she has said at TSL (the special episode that is now back online) was also okay from journalist perspective. I see no problem with her regarding this particular case.
I am not sure I would agree there is a high level of constructive criticism in reporting about figure skating in English language. Here and there someone who covers skating does write or say something valuable. The majority of "old school" content is some sort of PR of the sport, the organization or athletes. I would say that posting public information about arrest and investigation is the most journalistic thing TSL has done, if we take aside interviews (some were very professional, but pretty much all are insightful and have content guests never elaborated or even talked about before).

Hell must have frozen over since I am the one "defending" TSL. Maybe I am also biased since hiding information about sexual misconduct affected my childhood and teens and I have 0 tolerance to stuff like this.
TSL is an odd site because they attempt to win professional favour with in-depth interviews, only to be undone by rambling speculative nonsense gossip masquerading as event recaps.
 

skatingguy

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Just a pure question. Is anyone sure that TSL has a permission from Rika to upload her practice video on YouTube?
I don't think we know that it's Rika's practice video - we can't see the videographer. I'm not sure where Rika is training, but assuming that it is a public space, then anyone could take video and post it online.
 

laviemn

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If Christine Brennan cared about how skaters treat her enough to allow that to affect what and how she chooses to report, that's the end of being a real, ethical journalist for her.

If her colleagues treated her negatively because of loyalty to the skaters or wanting to stay in favor with USFS or whatever, they aren't her colleagues because they aren't journalists.

I think some people don't understand that having hardly any real journalists who provide more than fluff in this sport, who are independent from the insular niche that is the skating community, is partly the reason TSL has gained a much larger audience than other skating content platforms (with the possible exception of Ice Talk whose view counts aren't visible).
 

essence_of_soy

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If Christine Brennan cared about how skaters treat her enough to allow that to affect what and how she chooses to report, that's the end of being a real, ethical journalist for her.

If her colleagues treated her negatively because of loyalty to the skaters or wanting to stay in favor with USFS or whatever, they aren't her colleagues because they aren't journalists.

I think some people don't understand that having hardly any real journalists who provide more than fluff in this sport, who are independent from the insular niche that is the skating community, is partly the reason TSL has gained a much larger audience than other skating content platforms (with the possible exception of Ice Talk whose view counts aren't visible).
Too bad Hard Copy isn't around any more. La Brennan would be in her element.
 

Amantide

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Well, if TSL were cheese, it'd be straight from the can.
LOL!
I made it till the end but this was a bore to watch. By the way, I don't get the point of Jonathan in this show. He can't even stick to his opinions/impressions. He likes to flip flop a lot and he's always in the fence, observing first what the other person thinks about x or y skater or program, just so he can go with the flow.
 

essence_of_soy

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LOL!
I made it till the end but this was a bore to watch. By the way, I don't get the point of Jonathan in this show. He can't even stick to his opinions/impressions. He likes to flip flop a lot and he's always in the fence, observing first what the other person thinks about x or y skater or program, just so he can go with the flow.
Put simply. Jonathan is Trump. Dave is Putin.
 

Frau Muller

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LOL!
I made it till the end but this was a bore to watch. By the way, I don't get the point of Jonathan in this show. He can't even stick to his opinions/impressions. He likes to flip flop a lot and he's always in the fence, observing first what the other person thinks about x or y skater or program, just so he can go with the flow.
Even a Uber TSL fan like me must agree. This was one of the slowest, dullest & most rambling episodes ever. I’m not sure if it’s because Sandra Bezik drove it & wished to talk mainly about her work on the Javi show. Also, Dave seems to be shell shocked, not as sharp as usual. Jonathan seemed to be more awake but spoke very little. This was basically a Sandra show, with a bit of Euros thrown in. I truly hope that the US Nationals review will be sharper and on point, even if it’s a lot shorter.
 

Amantide

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Even a Uber TSL fan like me must agree. This was one of the slowest, dullest & most rambling episodes ever. I’m not sure if it’s because Sandra Bezik drove it & wished to talk mainly about her work on the Javi show. Also, Dave seems to be shell shocked, not as sharp as usual. Jonathan seemed to be more awake but spoke very little. This was basically a Sandra show, with a bit of Euros thrown in. I truly hope that the US Nationals review will be sharper and on point, even if it’s a lot shorter.
Yeah, I think it was Sandra with all that talk about her show. I think it's fair, I suppose. I just didn't care for it. :D
 

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