Spun Silver
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The Shibutanis Thread 4: Ready for Paradise
- Thread starter VGThuy
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Maia and Alex in the Olympics campaign Champion Your Dreams from one of their sponsors, Ralph Lauren.
(Scroll to the middle of the page and then hover/click over their names to play their segments)
https://www.ralphlauren.com/men-olympics-feat
In a Ralph Lauren gown. "Next level" elegance. Power that can slay.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbTE_XWl0X7/?hl=en&taken-by=maiashibutani
(Scroll to the middle of the page and then hover/click over their names to play their segments)
https://www.ralphlauren.com/men-olympics-feat
In a Ralph Lauren gown. "Next level" elegance. Power that can slay.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbTE_XWl0X7/?hl=en&taken-by=maiashibutani
DreamsofBliss
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Love those videos (the extreme close-ups!) and their inspirational quotes.
Keep the faith people! We KNOW the Shibs are still working very hard on their dances (in between entertaining us with the cutest childhood photos and videos!) The short dance is already at max audience appeal. I'm convinced we'll all like the improved FD at Skate America.
I agree. Remember all the changes made to D&W's FD between Skate America 2012 and Worlds 2013? I have faith that Marina will take care of this. (At least I'm praying that she does).
chapis
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But do you guys really think that the FD needs many changes? I think it needs more poweful music in the second half, maybe a transition before twizzles, and okay, this is totally random but the last two seasons they did the diagonal step seq from the left side of the rink to the right side, and now they do it from right to left, I would like if they change it, I can not get used to that, lol.
And now that I saw them work with Serge, I wonder if they are changing something from the SD or they are just perfecting some movements.
And now that I saw them work with Serge, I wonder if they are changing something from the SD or they are just perfecting some movements.
VGThuy
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I think they need more highlights that go with the music, change the order of elements around, and play with the shape of the pattern a bit more. I also think they could work on more interesting shapes and holds throughout the program and tie the elements in a more seamless way.
Or maybe they just need to skate the FD more effortlessly than at Rostelecom because the program had a sense of being a work in progress with them thinking through it.
Or maybe they just need to skate the FD more effortlessly than at Rostelecom because the program had a sense of being a work in progress with them thinking through it.
Spun Silver
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I have to admit I think their FD does need some rethinking after seeing H/D's. It's odd, but I feel a direct comparison to V/M and P/C is less worrisome! V/M skate wonderfully but their program is kind of meh, and, unless P/C really up their game, I don't think their MS is iconic or as original as their previous FDs.
The Shibs' FD is a lot like last year's overall IMO. Very beautiful, wonderfully skated, and almost trancelike, but missing drama and emotion. I am pretty sure they don't want a repeat of last year's Nats, so I am counting on them to make the needed changes, including some more intense music and timing the twizzles so they have more of the wow factor. --I don't suppose they can add a "one, two, three...." voiceover....
ETA: I keep thinking they have not made enough use of that Korean violinist who is capable of some real fireworks. I think an instrumental section that just goes wild would be fabulous.
The Shibs' FD is a lot like last year's overall IMO. Very beautiful, wonderfully skated, and almost trancelike, but missing drama and emotion. I am pretty sure they don't want a repeat of last year's Nats, so I am counting on them to make the needed changes, including some more intense music and timing the twizzles so they have more of the wow factor. --I don't suppose they can add a "one, two, three...." voiceover....
ETA: I keep thinking they have not made enough use of that Korean violinist who is capable of some real fireworks. I think an instrumental section that just goes wild would be fabulous.
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Firedancer
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Overall I think the FD was really good at Rostelecom, it was just their first time out with it. Having had 5 weeks to train since then, I do think we will see improvements to both programs. In the FD, I think they need more of a build in the music and in the emotion and energy of the program after the twizzles to the end of the program.
VGThuy
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I know someone who was at Rostelecom Cup and they said they don't know why but the Shibs' FD program really got to them emotionally and made them cry. Maybe it's because it's so similar to "Fix You" and the movement is similar to "Evolution" that it's failing to hit me the way I want it to whereas H/D's FD is something I haven't really seen from them before so it has more of an impact. Too bad I can't go back to never seeing ice dancing before in my life to see how Paradise hits.
That said, I do think the Shibs can do a lot to make it more impactful and impress us ice dance purists who want to see MORE technique, ease, power, and difficulty and the artist types who want to see the Shibs take advantage of the music with real highlight moves (outside of the elements) and play around with more interesting and eye-catching holds/shapes.
I mean they really challenged themselves with that SD and it is so full of great moves, shapes, intricacy, speed, confidence, and content. I think because their SD is such a bold move in the right direction that their FD sort of pales in comparison because there isn't the same improvement there as there is in the SD.
What they're doing now is good enough to win U.S. Nationals and be one of the top contenders for Olympic bronze, but I know the Shibs are better than simply holding off H/D and C/B and hoping to be the "best of the rest" for that bronze. They were almost there last season at 4CC and then boom.
That said, I do think the Shibs can do a lot to make it more impactful and impress us ice dance purists who want to see MORE technique, ease, power, and difficulty and the artist types who want to see the Shibs take advantage of the music with real highlight moves (outside of the elements) and play around with more interesting and eye-catching holds/shapes.
I mean they really challenged themselves with that SD and it is so full of great moves, shapes, intricacy, speed, confidence, and content. I think because their SD is such a bold move in the right direction that their FD sort of pales in comparison because there isn't the same improvement there as there is in the SD.
What they're doing now is good enough to win U.S. Nationals and be one of the top contenders for Olympic bronze, but I know the Shibs are better than simply holding off H/D and C/B and hoping to be the "best of the rest" for that bronze. They were almost there last season at 4CC and then boom.
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The Shibs' FD is a lot like last year's overall IMO. Very beautiful, wonderfully skated, and almost trancelike, but missing drama and emotion. I am pretty sure they don't want a repeat of last year's Nats, so I am counting on them to make the needed changes, including some more intense music and timing the twizzles so they have more of the wow factor. --I don't suppose they can add a "one, two, three...." voiceover....
I think the first part of the dance is fine. They are telling the story. After the twizzles, they need another "wow" element or "wow" transition right away. They take quite awhile to get to their spin. And then fly into the step sequence. I would ramp up the intensity of the music too after the twizzles, maybe use more of the violin version (I forgot the name of the artist) and less of the Coldplay vocal version.
After saying all that, I realize we are all "back seat drivers" and should just sit back and let the experts handle this! It's going to be exciting, no matter what happens.
chapis
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They should ask Ryan to help them modify the music to adapt it to its spin, the execution is perfect, but it does not go much with the music. But the way they fixed the music for the straight line lift was awesome. I have also noticed that although some teams go well with the music in simple elements or transitions, in the step seq they do not follow much the music, but Maia and Alex do it, they are able to do it, it is very evident especially in the diagonal step seq from last year, then it is not asking something impossible, but if you can do it in a step seq being the most difficult element, then they should take advantage of easier elements.
I also see that judges are rewarding teams who have steps between twizzles, so maybe they should add them too, I do not think it would be difficult to them, on the contrary.
But yes, the emotional factor is important, they need relax, though who can get relax in the olympic season?
I also see that judges are rewarding teams who have steps between twizzles, so maybe they should add them too, I do not think it would be difficult to them, on the contrary.
But yes, the emotional factor is important, they need relax, though who can get relax in the olympic season?
Spun Silver
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I like the first part too. They do the "dreaming" mood exquisitely. So we agree about the violinist! I wish I had the nerve to say something like that on one of their Instagram accounts but that would be crossing a line. Anyway, like you say, @Cayuse, I am just a back seat driver and a not very expert one at that so we are best off waiting a couple weeks to see what they have done! But it's fun to speculate and increases the suspense (and takes VGT's mind off wedding favors and who's sitting where ).
).
VGThuy
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BTW, I want all of your opinions on this. I know most people would probably say their 2016 Nationals Fix You (or Fix You from another comp) has been their best performance so far, but I honestly think their 2017 4CC FD has been their best performance as seniors. They just turned it on there and I wish they could tap into whatever it was that they tapped into there all of the time or at least more often. What do you guys think?
Spun Silver
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If there is any justice they will win the SD at the Olympics. I wonder if there is. :/ Maybe they are working with Serge to make it even more audience-friendly, to get the kind of reaction that can pressure the judges to do the right thing.
I will get back to you re: 2017 4CCs. Who knows, maybe I will see it differently now, but I am so attached to Fix You, I just don't think anything can top what they did with that at event after event.
I will get back to you re: 2017 4CCs. Who knows, maybe I will see it differently now, but I am so attached to Fix You, I just don't think anything can top what they did with that at event after event.
Firedancer
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2016 Nationals Fix You is still the one I watch the most.
chapis
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I like the first part too. They do the "dreaming" mood exquisitely. So we agree about the violinist! I wish I had the nerve to say something like that on one of their Instagram accounts but that would be crossing a line. Anyway, like you say, @Cayuse, I am just a back seat driver and a not very expert one at that so we are best off waiting a couple weeks to see what they have done! But it's fun to speculate and increases the suspense (and takes VGT's mind off wedding favors and who's sitting where
me too. I won´t do. But if you get the nerve, you have option to do it private. Violinist is a good idea but simply the original sound is great, the electric guitar sounds great here https://youtu.be/1G4isv_Fylg?t=207, but in their program the intensity of the music is lost, again I am not sure is it was the quality sound in the arena. In Fix you, the original song has a climax they used perfectly for the program, this part https://youtu.be/0WMCZvsPq-g?t=207. I just don´t get why use a popular song and do not take full advantage, there is a reason why Colplay decided record the song in that way. I am fine if they want a lyrical first half but it needs a good climax in the second part.
Spun Silver
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Again with the damn elephants?
(You're right, though. That could work too. As to sending them a PM ... you first.
)
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chapis
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yes, that performance is my favorite of their whole career. There were people who really thought that Maia and Alex should win that segment or even the competition in 4cc 2017. The reason that they look so great? I don´t know, I just can to think that they fell in the warm up, so if they pass near my seats in the warm up in Skate America, I will push them so that they fall
chapis
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Okay, now that I remember, in some interviews Maia and Alex said that they were really impressed and excited about 4cc 2017 because it was in the olympic venue, so maybe that is the reason. I think they really felt that it was their best performance, I hope they will get the same feeling in the olympics, remembering that special and magical moment.
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VGThuy
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New Shibs vlog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c0-qviKZNc
This one is about Coldplay and the iHeart Music Festival they went to in September with Arden Cho and Ryan Higa.
This one is about Coldplay and the iHeart Music Festival they went to in September with Arden Cho and Ryan Higa.
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chapis
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They showed to Coldplay singing Sky full of stars, I still regret that they have not included it in their program
. This is just before Champs camp, maybe this weekend they will upload that vlog 
.
binbinwinwin
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I agree with you, 2017 4CC FD was their best performance for me, although I still like Fix You better as a program because I felt like the build was better and it kept up the excitement better in the second half but I honestly thought Shibs would win the FD there over Virtue/Moir. That's how good I felt they skated there.
Not sure how Sky Full of Stars could be integrated into an FD but I agree that it is good skating music. On Stars on Ice they used it as a finale music one year I attended and I thought the entire thing was great.
Spun Silver
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OK, I watched the 4CCs Evolution without commentary 2.5x (YT crashed in the middle of the second time) and then the GPF FIx You with BES commentary. I dont think I see the qualitative difference you guys are talking about. The BES guys were raving about FY (one said it was one of the best things, period, he had ever seen, though one also said he thought their NHK perf was even better). Both Maia and Alex were overcome with emotion at the end. (It made me remember Alex’s blue-lip years when he was overcome in a different way — my, how much stronger he is now!) I would hazard that they are skating more sleekly, so to say, at 4CCs, everything is just so smooth, perfectly timed and perfectly in unison, but I cant say I would take that over the mix of technique, choreography and emotion of FY. I did think I saw a new level of speed and polish esp in their SD this year.
I’d be glad to hear any more specifics but, as I said, probably nothing can displace FY for me.
Who among you has seen them skate live? I have never been to an elite competition or seen them in a live show. Recently I saw Plushenko live in NYC and the overwhelming impression he made in person was not conveyed at all in the vids of his performances I saw. I know people say that all the time but I rarely have the chance to confirm it so dramatically. Maybe if I had seen that Evolution live I would understand better. Or maybe it is just my inexpert eyes.
I’d be glad to hear any more specifics but, as I said, probably nothing can displace FY for me.
Who among you has seen them skate live? I have never been to an elite competition or seen them in a live show. Recently I saw Plushenko live in NYC and the overwhelming impression he made in person was not conveyed at all in the vids of his performances I saw. I know people say that all the time but I rarely have the chance to confirm it so dramatically. Maybe if I had seen that Evolution live I would understand better. Or maybe it is just my inexpert eyes.
chapis
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This is a junior team, but look at how they use it for the twizzles https://youtu.be/6PgB59x4xXY?t=78 it is very effective like the twizzles in Fix you IMO, instead you see the new twizzles of Maia and Alex https://youtu.be/TjuDkzBvHKA?t=185 they are like building something but the climax doesn´t come very clear.
VGThuy
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You know, watching the twizzles in isolation like that makes it even more amazing just how much ice they're covering with their set and without extraneous rebalancing of the extra steps and changing of direction and what-not that other teams do to give the illusion of them having a portion of that coverage. I wonder if the Shibs' unison makes people think their twizzles are slower than they actually are because those twizzles in the FD are fast as heck but people keep saying how their twizzles are slower than others...which I don't see except for maybe Nikita's twizzles because he has like no control over them.
chapis
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I saw them live in 4cc 2012 (Alex sick
), Skate America 2013 (Alex fell in the FD ) and GPF 2016 ( 
) , they definitely look faster live in my opinion, and although I loved the 2016 GPF I still think 4CC 2017 was better.My favorite performance of Fix you was GPF 2015 too, but it was because it was very emotional, they knew that with Alex sick, they could not give the best program technically, so I guess they focused in the emotional aspect and to sell the program, especially Maia, but they were not so precise, in fact their spin had a visible mistake. But in 4cc it was great technically and artistically IMO, well not just my opinion, I think their personal best score was from that competition.
Spun Silver
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Oh, if I knew Alex was sick at the 2015 GPF I forgot. Lucky you to be able to attend so many comps. It’s not really an option for me, and both the times I thought I really could, something happened to prevent it. I feel DOOM, as an French-speaking ex of mine used to say.
binbinwinwin
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Ah I must've missed this FD, I've actually met George's younger brother before, he competes in both ice dance and singles. I'm not really feeling it as twizzle music yet but I can see what you mean.
I think they didn't want to make the new LP too similar to Fix You, so they had the twizzles build, a little lull and then straight back to the climax. I just wish that the bang here would have a more substantial type of movement? A piece of choreography? That snaps you right back into the climax better and into the step sequence.
Also, watching what happens after through and after the twizzles I don't know how anyone could call them slow. Maybe they're not twizzling like drills but their coverage is superb.
chapis
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totally agree!!
