The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

[Steph]

There is so much great Cohen music that could make some really cool FD's And it has to be Leonard actually singing.

Idly choreographing a Gilles & Poirier program to Dance Me to the End of Love in my head now

 

[skatingguy]

Who?

Brooke McIntosh's younger sister - she's a World Champion swimmer.

By the way, isn't Justin Bieber Canadian？

Yes

 

[kates8]

I don't think there is anyway all 3 of the current top 3 for the next Games, with Gilles & Poirier do the most likely to choose not to. I base that just on all their own comments, and that they decided very late to even compete this season, not their physical ability to do it or anything. I would just be very surprised if mentally they have it in to stay that long. I agree Chock & Bates might stay for the next Games, although I don't think it is as certain as you do. I don't think any of the 3 are certain but order of likelihood would be Guignard & Fabbri > Chock & Bates > Gilles & Poirier.

Anyway if all 3 make it I would be very surprised. Fear & Gibson's scores are rising at a ridiculous level IMO. Their GOE imparticular are absurd, plus their PCS in certain areas like skating skills. So even if the top 3 all stayed it is unlikely they could all hold them off. I don't think they in anyway deserved to beat Fournier Beaudry & Sorensen at this years worlds yet they did. I felt awful for Fournier Beaudry & Sorensen at worlds this year, there is even a case they skated better than Gilles & Poirier, atleast in the RD part, so to finish behind Fear & Gibson was a slap in the face. I think there is a huge political push behind them and they are going to be on the podium sooner rather than later, whether through teams retiring (likely anyway IMO) or just passing some of them. Plus they are still young and talented so will likely legitimately improve further in some areas, in addition to the obvious huge politicing and push behind them.

 

[kates8]

The current situation is super interesting, as all of the top 5 teams minus Fear & Gibson are getting pretty old. Least of those 4 being Gilles & Poirier, but they are the ones with the biggest question marks about motivation to continue. So a huge question of ho much of the current top 5 (minus Fear & Gibson) even hang in for 2026, and the ones that do if they are even still in good enough shape and up there or not. It will be interesting to follow particularly the top 3 teams, if they stay, and how much of contention any of the ones who do stay even are by 2026.

Fear & Gibson already seem like the anointed ones by the ISU for the next Games but we will see.

Then you have the younger teams like Green & Parsons, Lajoie & Lagha, Taschlerova & Taschler, and if they return Hawayek & Baker, who are already making their way up nicely. Green & Parsons were a strong 6th at worlds this year, and Lajoie & Lagha who have been outscoring them all season likely would have been in that spot instead had they been at worlds, so can already be expected to do very well next year.

Then the question if anyone returns but I think that is very unlikely. Papdakis & Cizeron are the only small chances, and I think even they are a long shot.

Anyway this is the first quad ever I can think of in ice dance where almost all the top 5 were near retirement age/point already, and a question to how many will even last the quad. It will make it super interesting how it plays out from here.

It could be my personal bias but I do think of the oldish teams Guignard & Fabbri are the most likely to stay in for 2026 (mostly because it is a home Olympics, not sure this would be the case otherwise), and probably followed by Fournier Beaudry & Sorensen. I think the Danadians though it is mostly whether they have an opening to be Canadian #1 for 2026. So essentialy I only see them staying for 2026 if both Gilles & Poirier retire by then, and if they can stay ahead of Lajoie & Lagha, and both of those things happening might not be great odds for them. I think they know they have no real realistic chance of big medals until they are Canadian #1.

I think by the time the next Games roll around the Canadian team will be all "young" teams. FB/S are now 34/32 and seem to have injuries each year to deal with - which is pretty common as skaters get older. I think if both teams skate next year that will be their last year.

 

[guignardfabbri]

I think by the time the next Games roll around the Canadian team will be all "young" teams. FB/S are now 34/32 and seem to have injuries each year to deal with - which is pretty common as skaters get older. I think if both teams skate next year that will be their last year.

Sadly one of them won't be Soucisse & Firus even then. I am pretty sure we will never see them at a major event again. Almost surprised they are continuing at this point. I remember how promising they once seemed.

 

[marbri]

In this Goldenskate interview with FB/S, taken the day after their win at Nationals, they say they are definitely competing next season and the rest is dependant on their bodies and whether there is a benefit for Canada to continue (my interpretation of what they are saying). It's at the end starting at 19:50.

Laurence Fournier Beaudry and Nikolaj Soerensen: 'We will be back next year'

Canada's Laurence Beaudry Fournier and Nikolaj Soerensen discuss the satisfaction of becoming Canadian National Champions and their longing to compete agains...

www.youtube.com

 

[marbri]

Sadly one of them won't be Soucisse & Firus even then. I am pretty sure we will never see them at a major event again. Almost surprised they are continuing at this point. I remember how promising they once seemed.

Soucisse & Firus are currently 28 and 29 years old. They would be 31/32 at the next Olympics. I don't think they qualify as one of the "young" teams (even if we use quotations).

I kind of feel that they are similar to Belbin/Agosto as in both teams left a very strong, successful school for a fresh POV elsewhere but it didn't really translate into results for either of them. In the case of S/F I think it was always going to be a struggle no matter where they went (or stayed).

 

[Judy]

Well onwards to Montreal! Please do their food though.

 

[clairecloutier]

I kind of feel that they are similar to Belbin/Agosto as in both teams left a very strong, successful school for a fresh POV elsewhere but it didn't really translate into results for either of them. In the case of S/F I think it was always going to be a struggle no matter where they went (or stayed).

If you consider a silver medal at Worlds and a 4th (should've been 3rd) at the Olympics to not be "results" ....

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't think B/A intended to switch for those results.

I'm glad they moved, though, if only because Linichuk and Karpanosov worked on Belbin's strength and helped her to understand that muscle was her friend. (And Agosto's back's friend.)

 

[VGThuy]

If you consider a silver medal at Worlds and a 4th (should've been 3rd) at the Olympics to not be "results" ....

Not to mention qualifying for two GPFs (though withdrawing from both), two silvers (beating DomShabs in the OD and nearly tying in the FD at Cup of China) and beating reigning world champs DelSchoes in the FD at Skate America), and two golds from the GP series (two of the golds from their last season).

I don't think B/A intended to switch for those results.

I'm glad they moved, though, if only because Linichuk and Karpanosov worked on Belbin's strength and helped her to understand that muscle was her friend. (And Agosto's back's friend.)

I guess you could argue they were worried about being passed over for the younger Canton teams, which ended up happening at the 2010 Olympics but things looks pretty bright at 2009 Worlds when they won silver over them after placing 4th at 2008 Worlds behind V/M. But those programs…

Like you, though, I’m glad they made the switch because it sounded like it was a much healthier environment for both Tanith and Ben, and I bet they learned a lot about ice dance technique that they’re both utilizing now as coaches.

Tanith did joke that she doesn’t believe she ever became the ice dancer Natalia and Gennadi wanted them to be and that both coaches wanted more years with them. For a few years after 2010, Tanith said she’d run into Natalia at various comps and Natalia would just say, “you can still come back!”

 

[marbri]

If you consider a silver medal at Worlds and a 4th (should've been 3rd) at the Olympics to not be "results" ....

They fell behind the two Canton teams they trained with and stayed behind them after the move.

 

[Dobre]

I don't see the comparison.

I will say that I consider the smile on Carolane's face when she skates to be a good result.

 

[Dobre]

They fell behind the two Canton teams they trained with and stayed behind them after the move.

No, they moved training facilities, defeated both teams at the L.A. Worlds, and were eventually passed & defeated by said teams. As was the rest of the planet.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

B/A are the 2010 Olympic bronze medalists in my heart, so they did have some success with Linnie.

 

[thvu]

B/A are the 2010 Olympic bronze medalists in my heart, so they did have some success with Linnie.

They should have gotten silver to me.

 

[VGThuy]

They should have gotten silver to me.

I have to rewatch very carefully, but I remember thinking Faella/Scali should have placed higher and probably medaled too.

 

[marbri]

It's like spin city in here...
For the sensitive fans, I like B/A. I wasn't trying to insult them.
I stand by my opinion. They had fallen behind V/M prior to the move at 2008 Worlds.
They were behind both D/W and V/M heading into the 2010 Olympics.
Those clearly weren't the results they were hoping for when they moved coaches in 2008.

2009 Worlds isn't the flex some think it is.

 

[Dobre]

Sylvia asked me to cross-post this list here from the Worlds FD play-by-play thread. I posted it there in response to a specific post, but it's mostly just a look at the season-long battle we had among the teams that finished between 6th and 12th. (A few other teams are mentioned just as relevant measuring sticks when their results might have aided or hindered our ability to predict the possible Worlds placements for the teams that did ultimately finish in 6th-12th).


Lombardia Trophy--Reed & Ambrulevicius defeated Taschlerova & Taschler

Finlandia Trophy--Turkkila & Versluis defeated Taschlerova & Taschler and Green & Parsons. Taschlerova & Taschler defeated Green & Parsons. (Homefield event for T&V).

Skate America--Muramoto & Takahashi were the only 6-12th place team there & finished behind Demougeot & Le Mercier and Harris & Chan (split dances with both)

Skate Canada--Green & Parsons were the only 6-12th place team there & finished behind Lajoie & Lagha (split dances)

John Wilson Trophy--Carreira & Ponomarenko defeated Taschlerova & Taschler. Taschlerova & Taschler defeated Kazakova & Reviya (split dances).

Grand Prix de France--Lopareva & Brissaud defeated Kazakova & Reviya and Turkkila & Versluis. (Homefield event for L&B). Kazakova & Reviya defeated Turkkila & Versluis (split dances). T&V had a fall in the RD, but I'll note they were placed below L&B in both dances.

NHK--Green & Parsons defeated Reed & Ambrulevicius, Lopareva & Brissaud, and Muramoto & Takahashi (G&P split dances with R&A). Reed & Ambrulevicius defeated L&B and M&T. Lopareva & Brissaud defeated Muramoto & Takahashi (split dances). M&T defeated Wang & Liu(split dances). (Homefield event for M&T).

Finland GP--Turkkila & Versluis defeated Carreira & Ponomarenko and Taschlerova & Taschler (T&K split dances with C&P). Carreira & Ponomarenko defeated Taschlerova & Taschler. (Homefield event for T&V).

Golden Spin--Carreira & Ponomarenko defeated Reed & Ambrulevicius (split dances) (I can't find the protocols so not sure if there was/was not a fall).

U.S. Nationals--Green & Parsons defeated Carreira & Ponomarenko.

European Championships-Results were 3. Turkkila & Versluis, 4. Reed & Ambrulevicius, 5. Lopareva & Brissaud, 6. Taschlerova & Taschler (L&B and T&T split dances), 7. Demougeot & Le Mercier, 8. Kazakova & Reviya (Homefield event for T&V).

4CCs--Carreira & Ponomarenko defeated Green & Parsons (split dances. G&P had a fall). Both teams defeated Muramoto & Takahashi (M&T had 3 falls). Splatfest!

Worlds--6. Green & Parsons, 7. Reed & Ambrulevicius, 8. Taschlerova & Taschler, 9. Turkkila & Versluis, 10. Carreira & Ponomarenko, 11. Muramoto & Takahashi, 12. Lopareva & Brissaud (Homefield event for M&T).

The 6-12th place Worlds results are all very comprehensible placements, especially when one takes in the actual Worlds performances, but not easily predictable based on the season. Of particular interest, I think, Taschlerova & Taschler, who flipped the applecart on three teams they had lost to during the season. (While ironically, they had pulled off a win over Green & Parsons's season debut performance under a new coaching team at the start of the season).

 

[Andrea82]

Golden Spin--Carreira & Ponomarenko defeated Reed & Ambrulevicius (split dances) (I can't find the protocols so not sure if there was/was not a fall).

Fall on the Choreographic Sliding Movement in the FD.

 

[Dobre]

Fall on the Choreographic Sliding Movement in the FD.

Thank you! I wondered if someone might resolve that mystery for me.

 

[Andrea82]

Thank you! I wondered if someone might resolve that mystery for me.

Protocol is here: https://villa-madison.com/gs2022/FSKXICEDANCE----------FNL-000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

 

[VGThuy]

It's like spin city in here...
For the sensitive fans, I like B/A. I wasn't trying to insult them.
I stand by my opinion. They had fallen behind V/M prior to the move at 2008 Worlds.
They were behind both D/W and V/M heading into the 2010 Olympics.
Those clearly weren't the results they were hoping for when they moved coaches in 2008.

2009 Worlds isn't the flex some think it is.

It's not spin city when people are just providing information and a different take in a mostly respectful way. When did calling other people "sensitive" become an accepted response to people proffering a different opinion than somebody else? I mean, who's sensitive in that case?

 

[tony]

It's not spin city when people are just providing information and a different take in a mostly respectful way. When did calling other people "sensitive" become an accepted response to people proffering a different opinion than somebody else? I mean, who's sensitive in that case?

The only way to get your opinion respected is by talking about eggs on the faces, I think.

FWIW, Belbin fell in the CD at 2008 Worlds and it put them significantly behind as it was, enough so that Khoklova and Novitski narrowly held on to a bronze medal there. 2009 Worlds had to be a bit of said 'flex' because it showed there were many teams capable of gravitating towards favorite at the start of 2010, rather than anything being a done deal.

 

[Belsornia]

As far as I can tell, the last & only time a full Olympic dance podium didn't return for the next Olympic Games was 1984. (Is that accurate? Did none of the 1980 podium compete?) Fusar-Poli & Margaglio did not make the podium in 2006, but they were there. Ditto with Belbin & Agosto in 2010.

The 1980 Olympic dance field was small: only 12 teams. 4 of them returned in 1984: Torvill & Dean (5th --> 1st), Blumberg & Seibert (7th --> 4th), Bestemianova & Bukin (8th --> 2nd), and Barber & Slater (12th --> 6th).

 

[NinjaTurtles]

They should have gotten silver to me.

Now this is a spicy take, say more please.

They probably should have won Worlds in 2009…

 

[guignardfabbri]

I have to rewatch very carefully, but I remember thinking Faella/Scali should have placed higher and probably medaled too.

I had Faella/Scali above Domnina/Shabalin (who were awful except for their strong CD due to injury), Belbin/Agosto, and possibly Davis/White as well. Really though I could see any arguments for Davis/White, Belbin/Agosto, Faella/Scali for any order from 2-4, but I just found Faella/Scali's programs that year so much more inspiring and expressive, even if technically they are a bit weaker than the 2 Americans. And Belbin/Agoosto's look under Linichuk was just I am sure she meant well with them, but it just wasn't a good match.

 

[Peepsquick]

If Russians are allowed I think Stepanova Bukin will make a breakthrough now that they’ve made the move to Zhulin

I think that it is a bad move on their part. They had great choreos so far but Zhulin is circling the drain, creatively speaking.

 

[Dobre]

The 1980 Olympic dance field was small: only 12 teams. 4 of them returned in 1984: Torvill & Dean (5th --> 1st), Blumberg & Seibert (7th --> 4th), Bestemianova & Bukin (8th --> 2nd), and Barber & Slater (12th --> 6th).

Thank you. None from the podium, as I figured.

 

[guignardfabbri]

Soucisse & Firus are currently 28 and 29 years old. They would be 31/32 at the next Olympics. I don't think they qualify as one of the "young" teams (even if we use quotations).

I kind of feel that they are similar to Belbin/Agosto as in both teams left a very strong, successful school for a fresh POV elsewhere but it didn't really translate into results for either of them. In the case of S/F I think it was always going to be a struggle no matter where they went (or stayed).

That is totally true. They aren't even young at all anymore. Making their situation even more I still really like them and they look like they are still loving what they are doing despite their collapsing results so that is good.