Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir # 47: Come What May...

[lauravvv]

(Sorry for the OT) @lauravvv, this reliable info was posted in the Kiss & Cry section:

Oh, okay. I thought their original SP was choreographed by John Kerr, and the FS by Cristopher Dean. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Golden1]

In 2015 it was a different situation because they were not competing at that time and Art on Ice seems to have also changed the strategy when it comes to announcing skaters now one by one. We might not know for a while but praying for them coming to Art on Ice or then Worlds in Milan. If not I'm dreaming to see "Long time running" live to the extent that I consider travelling to Canada to Stars on Ice....

Thank you for your answer. That's amazing that you will be able to travel to Canada if they don't come to Europe. Work won't allow me to fly to Canada at that time of the year. So upsetting. Now, I'll keep hoping for 2019. They have to come back to central Europe!!! Until then I'll keep re-watching my favorite Art on Ice performance that I still can't believe I saw live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMmmZ-9pPtQ

I don't know who does Tessa's little video clips for instagram but I love them. The Roxane one she just posted is so cool.

 

[stephanie2006]

The first AOI show in Switzerland is scheduled for March 1st; PyeongChang Olympics closing ceremony is on Feb. 25.

I think either V/M or P/C will be announced next to Davies/White. Both have been in the cast before. I have tickets already but would go to more shows depending on that decision.

 

[Rossig]

Oh, okay. I thought their original SP was choreographed by John Kerr, and the FS by Cristopher Dean. Thanks for the correction.

Lauravvv, I believe you are right. Kerr choreographed the Flamenco SP and Dean FP. And if you look at the FP, it's easy to notice Dean's style. One of the lifts is even based on the lift which Jayne and Chris already used in their Song of India program.

ETA

"Their work with 1984 Olympic ice dance champion Dean left them in awe at his creativity as a choreographer.

“We didn’t put in the programme all the ideas he had because it was impossible to put in everything,” Massot said. “We tried to keep the maximum of what we did with us. Most people last year told us it’s not possible to do better than our Patrick Watson free, but I think this programme will be better.”"

Source: https://europeonice.com/2017/11/24/savchenko-and-massot-enjoying-the-moment/

 

[Excidra]

Issues relating to cheating and biased judging should definitely be addressed, but I feel that this monster is bigger than V/M. Historically, cheating and biased judging as been part of ice dance discipline for a very long time. What needs to happen, in my opinion, is anytime a federation attempts to court judges or speak in a manner where they are attempting to influence the judging of our sport, then I feel that those individuals should be dealt with harshly. In addition, any judge who shows a pattern of voting for skaters from his or her country and giving low marks to rivals should be subject to an investigation if they can't defend the pattern they've set for themselves.

With that said, we should refrain from painting V/M as the victims of this type of judging. A lot of skaters have been hurt and or denied a title due to biased judging. This is why an independent body, because the ISU has failed to fix these issues, should be appointed as a watch dog and throw down the hammer whenever they believe that cheating in our sport has occurred.

 

[Goody2shoes]

Issues relating to cheating and biased judging should definitely be addressed, but I feel that this monster is bigger than V/M. Historically, cheating and biased judging as been part of ice dance discipline for a very long time. What needs to happen, in my opinion, is anytime a federation attempts to court judges or speak in a manner where they are attempting to influence the judging of our sport, then I feel that those individuals should be dealt with harshly. In addition, any judge who shows a pattern of voting for skaters from his or her country and giving low marks to rivals should be subject to an investigation if they can't defend the pattern they've set for themselves.

With that said, we should refrain from painting V/M as the victims of this type of judging. A lot of skaters have been hurt and or denied a title due to biased judging. This is why an independent body, because the ISU has failed to fix these issues, should be appointed as a watch dog and throw down the hammer whenever they believe that cheating in our sport has occurred.

Well said, Excidra.

However, again it's the argument of subjectiveness that come into play. Can you (as a judge) be absolutely objective in your response to a skate program without being accused of biasness? If we stick to V/M (since we're here), their scores are always questioned, be it at home country or taken from a Canadian judge while in another one. I'm trying to recall past seasons when V/M was competing. They (judges) have always been somewhat restraint in scoring V/M, even at home. Low when it's major bobbles. Good when clean. I do. Growing at steadily and realistically as they continue to make changes and fine tuning their programs. That's what makes it (scoring) believable for me.

Anyhow, a new TSL interview with Sandra Bezic is the talk of some. Calling for conspiracy or such. Though I didn't quite get that impression when I listened carefully to the tone and wording. Perhaps very diplomatic in giving perspective on Sandra's part. It certainly isn't any different that what most of us here had commented about V/M's capability. Why said we uber fans (and such) conspired to make this a conspiracy? I like the earlier comment about celebrating v/m's career but not at the expense of them losing out of gold because of politics or set narrative. All we want is a chance and fair shot. That's it. And, yes, It should be talked about. Especially if it's an open secret that it does happen. And why should it continue to be so? I also agree the victims in this mess are going to be the French too. Going back to Excidra's post, this in fact goes beyond these two teams because it will impact future skaters in ice dance. If it's all about pageantry or politics, why bother spending all that money and training to be your best but not rewarded?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?attr_tag=87AL0CUm_I12CnlI-6&feature=push-u-sub&v=_HSl_3gP4Ew

 

[Excidra]

Well said, Excidra.

However, again it's the argument of subjectiveness that come into play. Can you (as a judge) be absolutely objective in your response to a skate program without being accused of biasness? If we stick to V/M (since we're here), their scores are always questioned, be it at home country or taken from a Canadian judge while in another one. I'm trying to recall past seasons when V/M was competing. They (judges) have always been somewhat restraint in scoring V/M, even at home. Low when it's major bobbles. Good when clean. I do. Growing at steadily and realistically as they continue to make changes and fine tuning their programs. That's what makes it (scoring) believable for me.

Anyhow, a new TSL interview with Sandra Bezic is the talk of some. Calling for conspiracy or such. Though I didn't quite get that impression when I listened carefully to the tone and wording. Perhaps very diplomatic in giving perspective on Sandra's part. It certainly isn't any different that what most of us here had commented about V/M's capability. Why said we uber fans (and such) conspired to make this a conspiracy? I like the earlier comment about celebrating v/m's career but not at the expense of them losing out of gold because of politics or set narrative. All we want is a chance and fair shot. That's it. And, yes, It should be talked about. Especially if it's an open secret that it does happen. And why should it continue to be so? I also agree the victims in this mess are going to be the French too. Going back to Excidra's post, this in fact goes beyond these two teams because it will impact future skaters in ice dance. If it's all about pageantry or politics, why bother spending all that money and training to be your best but not rewarded?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?attr_tag=87AL0CUm_I12CnlI-6&feature=push-u-sub&v=_HSl_3gP4Ew

I feel that people should voice their outrage and disgust anytime cheating or anything that resembles that occurs in Figure Skating.

However, I have made the decision for myself to enjoy this last journey with V/M without allowing these questionable judging, which has occurrd in a few competitions this season, to affect my mood. Like I said previously, V/M will not go down without a fight and, in turn we get phenomenal performances out of it, I just chose to focus more on that. Let the chips fall where they may, hopefully it will be in V/M' corner. Hehe

 

[kittysk8ts]

I just read through all the comments here after the GFP. I cannot add anything new but I just want to add that I share the opinion that their programs are excellent and need only be further honed. They skated tight in the FD. They were skating the free with added content and went into the free behind and confused about their SD score. They still earned a personal best of 118+ despite this and were given a much deserved standing o. The crowds do in fact understand and appreciate their programs. Of course, it would have been perfect to go to the OG as GPF Champs. but all is not lost and this is not over. Perhaps this will light a little fire in the bellies of our team who doesn't like to lose!

 

[ddtpdx]

I just read through all the comments here after the GFP. I cannot add anything new but I just want to add that I share the opinion that their programs are excellent and need only be further honed. They skated tight in the FD. They were skating the free with added content and went into the free behind and confused about their SD score. They still earned a personal best of 118+ despite this and were given a much deserved standing o. The crowds do in fact understand and appreciate their programs. Of course, it would have been perfect to go to the OG as GPF Champs. but all is not lost and this is not over. Perhaps this will light a little fire in the bellies of our team who doesn't like to lose!

I think this is key. They took a risk by changing their circular step sequence for which they had already achieved level 4 in addition to changing the diagonal. While it now better captures the mood of the tango, the new construction does make it more challenging to maintain flow, so I think they need to stop making any further changes and just focus on improving speed and flow. Therefore, I hope this piece of reporting is true and that "Although no further alterations are being considered, they expect the routine to continue to ripen."

https://www.thestar.com/sports/skat...s-grab-three-medals-at-grand-prix-finals.html

ETA: Also, love the pic of V/M used for the article. Their positions are always exquisite!

 

[ddtpdx]

Wrap-up from CBC, including brief interview with V/M:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2GXO36DOiY

 

[puglover]

The one thing that totally frustrates me about the judging in ice dance is there is never any explanation as to why anyone loses a level on a key element - or scores really low GOE. I don't recall seeing slow-motion close ups showing placement with a blade, etc. and commentators telling us why that hurt the scores. We can see - URs and E and we know the difference in jumps and why a lutz scores higher but no such help for dancing. I shudder when I hear it is because the theme/program/music/costume is not as pleasing. Should they work together to present a picture - yes - but other then that I think fans should have preferences but not judges. Just MHO

 

[Sylvia]

Lauravvv, I believe you are right. Kerr choreographed the Flamenco SP and Dean FP.

@lauravvv, I can confirm now that Rossig is correct and my original re-post was incorrect -- Savchenko/Massot's original SP was choreographed by John Kerr, and the FS by Christopher Dean. Sorry for confusing you Laura and thank you, @Rossig.

Back to V/M... this is what Tessa wore for the GPF banquet (photo from her Instastory):
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bchjuxphg7m/

 

[chapis]

The one thing that totally frustrates me about the judging in ice dance is there is never any explanation as to why anyone loses a level on a key element - or scores really low GOE. I don't recall seeing slow-motion close ups showing placement with a blade, etc. and commentators telling us why that hurt the scores. We can see - URs and E and we know the difference in jumps and why a lutz scores higher but no such help for dancing. I shudder when I hear it is because the theme/program/music/costume is not as pleasing. Should they work together to present a picture - yes - but other then that I think fans should have preferences but not judges. Just MHO

I know, it is so annoying, in the rhumba pattern they break down the element and explain what part of the pattern was wrong, they should to do the same with the other step seq, or at least give that information to the commentators to explain it, the GOE would be too much, but the levels should be mandatory an explanation.

 

[Anyasnake]

The one thing that totally frustrates me about the judging in ice dance is there is never any explanation as to why anyone loses a level on a key element - or scores really low GOE.

GOE can be "seen". I find myself wondering more why someone has positive GOEs on something that doesn't deserve it than the opposite.
However the levels sometimes are a mystery.

 

[chapis]

It's so annoying that people keep talking about it being in bad taste for Tessa to put her crotch on his face. First of all it's not true, it's her belly that's on his face. And, how many times have I read as a certain couple bring The sex, and people praising them, but now with this lift, they are like ¨ Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, how is it possible?, I can´t stand this indecency, let us pray 10 Rosary for this dirty team¨ .

 

[marbri]

I think it's because it's an incredibly difficult lift that they perform brilliantly so some want to discredit it and that's the cheapest way to do it.

 

[arakwafan2006]

I just came home for lunch and decided to watch the Free Dance in HD. I used to not care for the middle to the end but i watched it and apparently i got hot sauce in my eyes because they filled with water. I am a fan of this dance. It's Olympic Gold Medal quality. I love this team. I am so happy that they came back. I love their legacy as well as their courage to come back and accept a challenge. I hope that their fire will remain lit after this disappointment. I'm so glad to be alive to see this matchup and their growth. My respect for their decision to remain true to themselves and put out work that they probably received opposite advise on and to make it look masterful... telling that story, it's beautiful. I wish Kurt's comment was edited out though. There was no reason to take a jab at the French. Still, great version of the performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9_-0ByXycU&t=302s

 

[Pastilage]

I will preface this that I rarely post. I had been so excited for their return to competition. I loved last year's program although not the "Latch" part. I like this year's SD and, with the changes, the FD. I am so disheartened by this scoring. It has almost ruined skating for me. I am a dedicated fan in the US who spends money on competitions, Ice Network and the Olympic Channel. To me the fix is in. There is no other way to explain these scores, especially the SD. I mentioned to my husband that I might not watch the OG because of this blatant fix and his exact words to me were "I thought that wasn't supposed to be happening anymore". FS is already struggling in NA and parts of Europe. Why lose dedicated fans with this ridiculous biased scoring?

It's clear now that PC will only lose if they fall during SD and FD. I can't imagine being an athlete, working incredibly hard on your sport only to be dumped by the judges because of politics and possible pay offs. That we are already deciding that they will get O silver is pathetic. I can only hope that the outcry from the cheating might lead to changes. That this continues in this "sport" is outrageous.

Thanks for listening.

 

[arakwafan2006]

I will preface this that I rarely post. I had been so excited for their return to competition. I loved last year's program although not the "Latch" part. I like this year's SD and, with the changes, the FD. I am so disheartened by this scoring. It has almost ruined skating for me. I am a dedicated fan in the US who spends money on competitions, Ice Network and the Olympic Channel. To me the fix is in. There is no other way to explain these scores, especially the SD. I mentioned to my husband that I might not watch the OG because of this blatant fix and his exact words to me were "I thought that wasn't supposed to be happening anymore". FS is already struggling in NA and parts of Europe. Why lose dedicated fans with this ridiculous biased scoring?

It's clear now that PC will only lose if they fall during SD and FD. I can't imagine being an athlete, working incredibly hard on your sport only to be dumped by the judges because of politics and possible pay offs. That we are already deciding that they will get O silver is pathetic. I can only hope that the outcry from the cheating might lead to changes. That this continues in this "sport" is outrageous.

Thanks for listening.

I didn’t want to admit the fix but since you did...

 

[TheresMaude]

It's so annoying that people keep talking about it being in bad taste for Tessa to put her crotch on his face. First of all it's not true, it's her belly that's on his face. And, how many times have I read as a certain couple bring The sex, and people praising them, but now with this lift, they are like ¨ Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, how is it possible?, I can´t stand this indecency, let us pray 10 Rosary for this dirty team¨ .

To me, the unfortunate part of the lift is the ungainly position she has with her legs dangling on either side of his head, not where his face meets her body. It would be an unfortunate position if she was in the piggyback position. I wish they could have found a better way to resolve it, because it's obviously a spectacularly difficult and sensational lift, but IMO it's a blot to see this elegant, sinuous dancer in this clunky position even for a second or two.

 

[chantilly]

To each their own
I don't find her leg position ungainly at all.
I think the raw quality of that lift fits the music and the characters story perfectly.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I love the backflip lift and the criticisms of it are ridiculous. There are of course other teams who have "risqué" lifts; Penny and Nick have a crotch in the face lift but I do not see anyone complaining about that.

 

[chapis]

I love the backflip lift and the criticisms of it are ridiculous. There are of course other teams who have "risqué" lifts; Penny and Nick have a crotch in the face lift but I do not see anyone complaining about that.

And now they are saying that V/M´s lift is not so difficult!! P/C fans, no less

 

[Goody2shoes]

That...and I always come up with Capellini and Lanotte's. Sorry C/L (Still Love you guys!) Anyhow, my eyebrows rose when I saw that move years ago.

 

[Goody2shoes]

And now they are saying that V/M´s lift is not so difficult!! P/C fans, no less

You know, whatever floats their boat. I say stay away from goldenskate forum board while we're at it. Pretty sure I saw some familiar poster names from FSUniverse over there too

 

[kittysk8ts]

That...and I always come up with Capellini and Lanotte's. Sorry C/L (Still Love you guys!) Anyhow, my eyebrows rose when I saw that move years ago.

Yup! Kurt Browning's words at the time "You'd only want to do that lift with someone you know quite well".

HAHAHAHAHAHA. I liked that lift too tho.

 

[Goody2shoes]

Yup! Kurt Browning's words at the time "You'd only want to do that lift with someone you know quite well".

HAHAHAHAHAHA. I liked that lift too tho.

Though I have to say at the same time, I did admire Luca's arm strength and (composed composure) smile from Anna to pull that off ...

 

[Goody2shoes]

I was also hoping that someone would make a side-by-side video comparison of V/M between SCI/NHK with GPF on YouTube, like last season. I feel the changes are really making MR come together better. Watched again yesterday. Scott's expression at the beginning was just so fierce. The attack on tango part was just right, I feel. Hope as they fine tune all the changes before Feb, more gentler/softer movements will be consistent from CWM. It's there but I saw it more at SCI. I really do think timing of their movements to the music is crucial. It's so minute. That's why I think SCI performance was what captivated me completely. This is just my opinion ...

 

[pani]

So sad Tessa and Scott doing something wrong even in there fans opinion.

 

[kittysk8ts]

So sad Tessa and Scott doing something wrong even in there fans opinion.

Not in MY opinion! All will be well @pani!