Tatiana Tarasova: I don't even consider working with the foreign skaters this season

[ninalovesskating]

Not a victory. Reality at this moment in time. Your background and insight:

1. The Soviet Union divided into many countries.
2. Russia & the Ukraine became their own countries without high levels of state-funding in sports for many years.
3. Former Soviet dance coaches moved halfway across the world so that their athletes would have ice to train on.
4. Former Soviet athletes began to train in different parts of the world and with non-Russian partners in search of the opportunity to compete at the elite level.
5. Russian dance coaches & their pupils began coaching skaters that lived halfway across the world so that they would be able to feed themselves and share their passion with the athletes who lived there.
6. The U.S., Canada, Italy, etc. developed strong dance teams that could compete with the Russian athletes.
7. The world of ice dance is now much deeper and all of these teams must battle with each other.
8. The Grand Prix/Champions Series/Grand Prix Final were introduced, giving dance teams from around the world multiple opportunities to compete with one another, gain feedback from international judges, learn what was required in order to improve within the sport, and develop their own reputations around the world.
9. The scoring system was changed, allowing more movement across the discipline.
10. Compulsories were eliminated, encouraging more movement across the discipline, less politics, and greater reward for clean, technically demanding short & free programs.
11. Many different teams began to medal in competition, instead of the same three or four throughout a quadrennium.
12. The professional circuit died, encouraging more dance teams to stay in the eligible ranks even after winning medals and moving down in the rankings.
13. Due to more movement, the opportunity to climb up & back up in the rankings encouraged more dance teams to stay in the eligible ranks.
14. Four Continents was established, creating a major international event for dance teams from outside Europe to challenge one another and develop stronger international credentials.
15. Ilinykh & Katsalapov split.
16. Soloviev had a serious knee injury that cost him a year of training.
17. Bobrova was banned from Worlds during the Meldonium mess.
18. Russia developed a singles skating tradition, now attracting strong athletes and coaches.
19. We now have the deepest dance field in history. Never before have there been three World Champions, seven world medalists, eleven major international medalists in the dance field.

Good points. Especially 15-17. I feel like everything started going downhill after Ilinykh and Katsalapov split... Then Bobrova and Soloviev topped the disaster off with the doping scandal and the injury... Now they're stuck in this tangled web of mess...

 

[caseyedwards]

Not a victory. Reality at this moment in time. Your background and insight:

1. The Soviet Union divided into many countries.
2. Russia & the Ukraine became their own countries without high levels of state-funding in sports for many years.
3. Former Soviet dance coaches moved halfway across the world so that their athletes would have ice to train on.
4. Former Soviet athletes began to train in different parts of the world and with non-Russian partners in search of the opportunity to compete at the elite level.
5. Russian dance coaches & their pupils began coaching skaters that lived halfway across the world so that they would be able to feed themselves and share their passion with the athletes who lived there.
6. The U.S., Canada, Italy, etc. developed strong dance teams that could compete with the Russian athletes.
7. The world of ice dance is now much deeper and all of these teams must battle with each other.
8. The Grand Prix/Champions Series/Grand Prix Final were introduced, giving dance teams from around the world multiple opportunities to compete with one another, gain feedback from international judges, learn what was required in order to improve within the sport, and develop their own reputations around the world.
9. The scoring system was changed, allowing more movement across the discipline.
10. Compulsories were eliminated, encouraging more movement across the discipline, less politics, and greater reward for clean, technically demanding short & free programs.
11. Many different teams began to medal in competition, instead of the same three or four throughout a quadrennium.
12. The professional circuit died, encouraging more dance teams to stay in the eligible ranks even after winning medals and moving down in the rankings.
13. Due to more movement, the opportunity to climb up & back up in the rankings encouraged more dance teams to stay in the eligible ranks.
14. Four Continents was established, creating a major international event for dance teams from outside Europe to challenge one another and develop stronger international credentials.
15. Ilinykh & Katsalapov split.
16. Soloviev had a serious knee injury that cost him a year of training.
17. Bobrova was banned from Worlds during the Meldonium mess.
18. Russia developed a singles skating tradition, now attracting strong athletes and coaches.
19. We now have the deepest dance field in history. Never before have there been three World Champions, seven world medalists, eleven major international medalists in the dance field.

Thanks for all the info in one easy to digest post that gets right to the point! Any question this brings up is also answered! Like why is Russia the only country to be hurt in this new environment? Because of all the people who left and couples had problems and then the ladies discipline exploded!!! I would like a history where at least some of the Russian dance experts who stayed in Russia were as good as the ones who left! But that didn't happen.

Fifth is a huge bonus for B/S and it's no question that they got that because of politics... I don't know how many times I have repeated this, but I'm gonna have to keep saying it if I'm taking to a brick wall. Of course Russia's not gonna allow themselves to be non-contenders for the Olympic medal, even though they are really at an all time lowest of lows in dance right now. For what B/S put out, I personally think they should have been Eighth or Ninth. Kustarova can say whatever the heck she wants but in the end of the day, levels go back to execution not design. It would be great if Russian teams with potential, like Tiffany and Jon, are sent to Dubreil and Lauzon, or Stepanova and Bukin to Krylova but unfortunately, it's the Russian Fed who's making decisions. Stick to your roots or you're out. Pridefulness gets in the way of success... Which is such a shame for skaters who can have a bright future in the sport.

Yes the Nationalism that forbids bobrova and soloviev or Stepanova and Bukin from being coached by dubreil is the worst!

 

[arakwafan2006]

I think honest feedback like this is good for skaters to hear... American skaters namely. Tarasova is wonderful in that she's clearly biased with great justification. She knows what she's looking at for sure. I love that she's able to appreciate work that's so opposite hers. She has often praised Lori Nichol for her work with Mao. Her style of choreography is so opposite Marie - France's but she's able to love the work and laud its quality.

She is the character of all characters. She and Moskvina.

 

[barbarafan]

Fifth is a huge bonus for B/S and it's no question that they got that because of politics... I don't know how many times I have repeated this, but I'm gonna have to keep saying it if I'm taking to a brick wall. Of course Russia's not gonna allow themselves to be non-contenders for the Olympic medal, even though they are really at an all time lowest of lows in dance right now. For what B/S put out, I personally think they should have been Eighth or Ninth. Kustarova can say whatever the heck she wants but in the end of the day, levels go back to execution not design. It would be great if Russian teams with potential, like Tiffany and Jon, are sent to Dubreil and Lauzon, or Stepanova and Bukin to Krylova but unfortunately, it's the Russian Fed who's making decisions. Stick to your roots or you're out. Pridefulness gets in the way of success... Which is such a shame for skaters who can have a bright future in the sport.

I also would love to see Tiffany and Jon in Mtl as they are unique & Patrice is such a technical coach but also the off ice training and dancing is brilliant here. Tiffany has a weightlessness when she skates & I would love to see what a brilliant choreographer could do with them...If Carol Lane & Yuri R. did not have Gilles/Poirier who they are totally obsessed with I know Carol could do something there...I see similarities in Paul Poirier's old partner Vanessa Crone & Tiffany. Here is a program of theirs when they were around 18 that I love. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAoaheeAWPo

 

[MarieM]

If Kustarova has only thm, I'm kind of sure they'll get the attention they need to become a team. Kustarova has learned a lot from working with Elena about packaging, and it did show in her juniors last season.
So I do think, if an outside choreographer is involved, this could be the IT coaching situation for them.
And me thinking that, is probably as huge as a compliment as I can make.

As for Zhulin, he has sparks of genius, but he never ever takes chances. And last season, he sucked the whole time. He's been on the off IMO and not paying attention or giving attention to his skaters who have technical problems since Oleg left his rink.

 

[ninalovesskating]

I also would love to see Tiffany and Jon in Mtl as they are unique & Patrice is such a technical coach but also the off ice training and dancing is brilliant here. Tiffany has a weightlessness when she skates & I would love to see what a brilliant choreographer could do with them...If Carol Lane & Yuri R. did not have Gilles/Poirier who they are totally obsessed with I know Carol could do something there...I see similarities in Paul Poirier's old partner Vanessa Crone & Tiffany. Here is a program of theirs when they were around 18 that I love. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAoaheeAWPo

I would LOVE to see Tiffany and Jon coached by Dubreil and Lauzon. Stylistically, I think that it's a perfect match. Tiffany also speaks French. It's gonna do wonders for them and I think with amazing programs, they'll be thirty times better and could possibly be the best Russian team internationally as time progresses.

 

[Rina RUS]

Maybe as coach for Yagudin, she just has a super high standard for the men?

I was thinking about Yagudin's super high standard for a coach, when he says he doesn't want to be a coach, that it is the last thing he would try to do. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems he can't forget how much time Tarasova was spending with him.
(though he helped many skaters: together with Tarasova or without Tarasova)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVmcAbhBt_7/ "adore you!!!"

 

[barbarafan]

I would LOVE to see Tiffany and Jon coached by Dubreil and Lauzon. Stylistically, I think that it's a perfect match. Tiffany also speaks French. It's gonna do wonders for them and I think with amazing programs, they'll be thirty times better and could possibly be the best Russian team internationally as time progresses.

ITA..and I could so see Jean-Marc Genereaux bringing out the inner Tiffany in the latin dances. Sizzle.....

 

[Rina RUS]

Why "lol" Nothing "lol"! Some people are happy if they can mock Plushenko.
This is fact. If he will prove something he will be a coach. I'm sure when Orser begun his coaching career he wasn't a real coach, too. Right? The question was provocative because the answer is obvious.
Plushenko is too famous , maybe the emergence of his school annoys some people..That would have been great if he goes to an other school (for ex. to the CSKA) and works there.....
When they learn that he is different from other skaters? He has own shows (he doesn't go to skate as an Averbukh's serf ), school, etc..

Yet why are you so worried, dear Lala? It's normal, that you answer, yet why are you SO worried each time?

You asked why people speak about his arrogance... today I can say: you are arrogant, when you choose the words "Averbukh's serf". Why? You say Evgeni is peaceful, but why don't you try to be peaceful (if he is)?

ALL the people are different. Not one is different from all.

Have a good day, Lala!!!!!!

Sincerely I say.

 

[ninalovesskating]

ITA..and I could so see Jean-Marc Genereaux bringing out the inner Tiffany in the latin dances. Sizzle.....

Yes!!!!!! And work on getting that chemistry out!!!!!!! They really have potential!!!

 

[cris]

I would LOVE to see Tiffany and Jon coached by Dubreil and Lauzon. Stylistically, I think that it's a perfect match. Tiffany also speaks French. It's gonna do wonders for them and I think with amazing programs, they'll be thirty times better and could possibly be the best Russian team internationally as time progresses.

So what would it take for them to move to Montreal? Too expensive? The Russian Fed wouldn't approve?
I saw Tiffany live in 2010 at the JGP in Brasov and I've been waiting and wanting ever since for her to medal. Hope Kustarova won't waste her any more years.

 

[caseyedwards]

So what would it take for them to move to Montreal? Too expensive? The Russian Fed wouldn't approve?
I saw Tiffany live in 2010 at the JGP in Brasov and I've been waiting and wanting ever since for her to medal. Hope Kustarova won't waste her any more years.

It can't be too expensive! 70 to 80% of European dance teams train in North America! I just don't believe it can be too expansive!

 

[VGThuy]

Have any top Russian ice dance teams ever been coached by non-Russians?

 

[caseyedwards]

Have any top Russian ice dance teams ever been coached by non-Russians?

This must be the real issue! Banning of Russian ice dancers from being coached by non Russian and non citizen Russians! Banning of coaching by emigres.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe the Fed is resistant because having an ice dance team go to foreign coaches is the next level of admitting failure of their system. It's a lot to take in especially after their successful and dominant ice dance history. They allowed teams to be coached by emigres before so I'm not sure why that isn't more common now, though S/K did go to Marina and I/Z did go to Igor.

 

[caseyedwards]

Maybe the Fed is resistant because having an ice dance team go to foreign coaches is the next level of admitting failure of their system. It's a lot to take in especially after their successful and dominant ice dance history. They allowed teams to be coached by emigres before so I'm not sure why that isn't more common now, though S/K did go to Marina and I/Z did go to Igor.

Is it "athletic Nationalism"? It's being so destructive. Lots of rumors about why s/k left zueva but at roughly same time spiliband working with I/z ended. There just may be a real outrage top Russians had to be coached by actually former Russians who are now Americans.

 

[taz'smum]

It can't be too expensive! 70 to 80% of European dance teams train in North America! I just don't believe it can be too expansive!

It is too expensive without sponsors unless of course you are part of a federation with few international level skaters to support! Elena and Ruslan needed a sponsor to be able to afford to train with Igor.

 

[ninalovesskating]

So what would it take for them to move to Montreal? Too expensive? The Russian Fed wouldn't approve?
I saw Tiffany live in 2010 at the JGP in Brasov and I've been waiting and wanting ever since for her to medal. Hope Kustarova won't waste her any more years.

I don't think the issue is financial. It's got to be deeper than that. The real problem here is the Russian Fed. They have never been 100% invested on the idea of their teams trained by Non-Russians. Maybe it's the fear for their teams to lose their Russian-ness or maybe just pride... It's not good either way. For example, S/K and I/Z. Yes, they went to train in North America but they were still coached by Russians. Not saying that's a problem... Just the logic behind the decision. Them being coached by Igor and Marina is at least better than being stuck in Russia with coaches who don't have visions... Having said that, keep in mind that those two teams were unreliable and had no whatsoever drive or strong commitment to the sport... Whereas, Zahorski/Guerreiro and even Stepanova/Bukin are more reliable and have more lasting power. These two teams are the ones I would put my money on if I'm looking into the future. They have potential and most importantly of all, they are committed and dedicated. There has never been word about Z/G or S/B slacking off... Never...

The question now is can they be sent to North America for coaching? Yes, they can, but in the end of the day, the Russian fed always has the last say. No Russian team has ever been coached by a Non-Russian. Z/G going to Montreal would be a first. I would love to see S/B go to Krylova or Carol Lane. Is it gonna happen? Probably not. I'm gonna keep dreaming though... Maybe one day when the Russian Fed wakes up from their 50 year sleep.

 

[TAHbKA]

Have any top Russian ice dance teams ever been coached by non-Russians?

Depends who you consider top teams and non Russians. Khohlova/Andreev and Sinitsina/Katsalapov were coached by Zueva

 

[VGThuy]

Depends who you consider top teams and non Russians. Khohlova/Andreev and Sinitsina/Katsalapov were coached by Zueva

Yeah, I mentioned Marina and Igor in my follow-up post. I guess I still consider her Russian in the same way Linichuk, Dubova, Platov, and Morosov (and Zhulin when he lived in New Jersey and Tarasova when she lived in Connecticut and Moskvina in pairs when she lived in New Jersey) and other Russian/Soviet emigres were when they coached Russian skaters while being based in the U.S. even though it seems Marina/Igor really adopted their new homes and became naturalized citizens of Canada/U.S. respectively. I'm not sure if the other Russian transplants became U.S. citizens.

It seems the Russian Fed sending a team to Montreal with a primary coaching team that has no ties to Russia the way the above emigres (or former emigres) had would be the next level that the Fed isn't going to consider, as of right now.

 

[barbarafan]

It is too expensive without sponsors unless of course you are part of a federation with few international level skaters to support! Elena and Ruslan needed a sponsor to be able to afford to train with Igor.

What are the possibilities of a sponsor from Russia? someone like Plushi? is there such a thing?

 

[taz'smum]

What are the possibilities of a sponsor from Russia? someone like Plushi? is there such a thing?

No idea!

 

[VGThuy]

Didn't I/Z lose their sponsor? I read that was the reason they couldn't stay with Igor, among other things.

 

[allezfred]

It can't be too expensive! 70 to 80% of European dance teams train in North America! I just don't believe it can be too expansive!

I'd be really interested to hear what you think it costs to train and compete as a dance team.

 

[taz'smum]

I'd be really interested to hear what you think it costs to train and compete as a dance team.

Me too!
(I might just have first hand knowledge )

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think the question was how can so many teams around the world train in NA if the Russian teams can't. The German Fed was saying it couldn't afford 30K Euros -- after DG dropped from his original ask -- for Maillot's release, but two of their teams are now with Zoueva, which can't be cheap. But they may be doing it on their own, between family and getting their own sponsors, including crowd sourcing.

 

[caseyedwards]

I think the question was how can so many teams around the world train in NA if the Russian teams can't. The German Fed was saying it couldn't afford 30K Euros -- after DG dropped from his original ask -- for Maillot's release, but two of their teams are now with Zoueva, which can't be cheap. But they may be doing it on their own, between family and getting their own sponsors, including crowd sourcing.

Exactly! It's not about what it costs it's why it would be too expensive for Russians!

Tina GARABEDIAN / Simon PROULX-SENECAL ARM 2 Montreal Canada

Nicole KUZMICHOVA / Alexandr SINICYN CZE 5 Toronto Canada

Laurence FOURNIER BEAUDRY / Nikolaj SORENSEN DEN 6 Montreal Canada

Cecilia TÖRN / Jussiville PARTANEN FIN 8 Canton USA

Marie-Jade LAURIAULT / Romain LE GAC FRA 9 Montreal Canada

Tatiana KOZMAVA / Alexei SHUMSKI GEO 11 Ann Arbor USA

Kavita LORENZ / Joti POLIZOAKIS GER 12 Novi USA

Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON GBR 13 Montreal Canada

Robynne TWEEDALE / Joseph BUCKLAND GBR 14 Novi USA

Adel TANKOVA / Ronald ZILBERBERG ISR 16 USA

Taylor TRAN / Saulius AMBRULEVICIUS LTU 22 Canton USA

Alisa AGAFONOVA / Alper UCAR TUR 30 Detroit USA

Alexandra NAZAROVA / Maxim NIKITIN UKR novi USA

Anybody know if this is because some of these people are as rich as Isabelle Tobias?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Putting aside nationalism, the Russian Fed has put most of its money behind coaching and training facilities in Moscow and, more and more, St. Petersburg, and, to what sounds like a great extent, lets individual skaters/teams who've gotten results to get money assigned to their rinks. I know that there are hard feelings about how that money is distributed -- Vasiliev especially has been outspoken about this -- and a lot of centralization, but if they have a gym and training and dance rooms at or near Mozer's rink, for example, and they hire a ballet teacher, some trainers and PT's, and some massage therapists, that covers everyone at the rink, regardless of who comes and goes. Also Russian coaches tend to have group lessons more -- something that some NA groups are starting to adopt, finally -- so they are able to stretch their rubles more than by writing checks to the trainers, doctors, PT's, dance classes, not to mention the coaches and coach/choreographers, abroad.

 

[caseyedwards]

Putting aside nationalism, the Russian Fed has put most of its money behind coaching and training facilities in Moscow and, more and more, St. Petersburg, and, to what sounds like a great extent, lets individual skaters/teams who've gotten results to get money assigned to their rinks. I know that there are hard feelings about how that money is distributed -- Vasiliev especially has been outspoken about this -- and a lot of centralization, but if they have a gym and training and dance rooms at or near Mozer's rink, for example, and they hire a ballet teacher, some trainers and PT's, and some massage therapists, that covers everyone at the rink, regardless of who comes and goes. Also Russian coaches tend to have group lessons more -- something that some NA groups are starting to adopt, finally -- so they are able to stretch their rubles more than by writing checks to the trainers, doctors, PT's, dance classes, not to mention the coaches and coach/choreographers, abroad.

Because of the results it's getting (or lack of results!) sounds like Detroit and it's big old style cars being abandoned for new compact cars from Japan! Time to adapt to what the consumers (judges) want! New ideas and imagination beating a big system that worked in the past but began to fall out favor and then fail!

 

[chapis]

This program looks very similar to Montreal style. Someone can confirm if Zulin is the choreographer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lraKzMAtmQ0&t=130s
Two options, Sara choreographed it or she had important input. Maybe they should hire her as a collaborator, at least she could help them in acting and style, she has that ethereal style that is very popular nowadays. Yes, I know that everyone says that you are tired of that style, but at the end of the day, P / C have got medals and world record with that style for 3 seasons in a row. And it's not like Zhulin's style is good and / or innovative.