Tatiana Tarasova: I don't even consider working with the foreign skaters this season

chapis

Well-Known Member
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2,871
Great interview, thanks! Loved the honest answers from TAT. And also her take on Julia's career.
yes, the ¨ The great Spilberg sent her a letter. Have you ever received such a letter? No. Me neither. She did ¨, :lol: I love her
 

lala

Well-Known Member
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4,678
ES: Do you believe in Pluschenko as a coach?
TAT: Once he proves himself - I will.

lol
Why "lol" Nothing "lol"! :EVILLE:Some people are happy if they can mock Plushenko.

This is fact. If he will prove something he will be a coach. I'm sure when Orser begun his coaching career he wasn't a real coach, too. Right? The question was provocative because the answer is obvious.
Plushenko is too famous , maybe the emergence of his school annoys some people..That would have been great if he goes to an other school (for ex. to the CSKA) and works there.....

When they learn that he is different from other skaters? He has own shows (he doesn't go to skate as an Averbukh's serf ), school, etc..
 
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Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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15,237
TAT's comments about B/S can be explained by one simple thing: She really can't stand Zhulin.

If B/S were with another coach, she would be raving about them and their crazy, upside down layback lift.

But she has never passed up a chance to mess with a Zhulin created program or to damn a team of his with faint praise or even shade.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
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4,680
I am sorry for assuming that you meant Davis/White. It's just so many Virtue/Moir fans have called them robotic, emotionless etc. (which I don't agree with) that, when I read your comment, my first thought was about them.

As for other ice dancers, I personally don't see anyone in world top 20 and even beyond whom I could call robotic, including Bobrova/Soloviev and Stepanova/Bukin. Even if all of them are not performers of V/M's and P/C's level, "robotic" is a huge exaggeration, in my opinion. I also don't see all or any of them as looking the same even though there are similarities. For instance, while most of Dubreuil/Lauzon's teams have a similar style I don't see them as "all the same" just because they are all skating mostly lyrical FDs to slow/slowish music like many people do. Even the music is not actually all the same. And the similarities in their skating style are a good thing rather than something bad as it means quality skating. Taljing about Tarasova, she also likes the style of the Dubreuil/Lauzon group - both the skating quality that the majority of them share, as well as individual programs and traits. She absolutely loved Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen's FD which many thought boring, thought their performance of it at Euros very emotional and the FD itself a great tribute to Edith Piaf. As for Hubbell/Donohue, she mostly praised their skating and edgework, as well as their connection/chemistry, and also their musicality. And, of course, she simply adores Papadakis/Cizeron.

Forgive me for going off-topic again, simply I know that the lyrical style of the Montreal group and others who have done programs of that kind is what many people consider absolutely boring and "all the same".
ITA on Mtl Gadbois group...Marie-France takes the time to really see them and to try to give them a style that is uniquely them and Patrice is such a technician if they have the talent they will be very good. I am pretty sure I have not yet seen a team from them I did not like. I do love V/M P/C W/P H/D and also N/N from the UKraine who I feel have something very special. B/S I have liked sometimes but I was disappointed last year...found them boring & I found (me and me alone maybe)that they appeared to be slow..I also really like Tiffany & John who have a light airy quality that I like and I am hoping for good material for them this yr. And still I am seeing quite a lot of teams that I just pass through.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
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4,680
Why "lol" Nothing "lol"! :EVILLE:Some people are happy if they can mock Plushenko.

This is fact. If he will prove something he will be a coach. I'm sure when Orser begun his coaching career he wasn't a real coach, too. Right? The question was provocative because the answer is obvious.
Plushenko is too famous , maybe the emergence of his school annoys some people..That would have been great if he goes to an other school (for ex. to the CSKA) and works there.....

When they learn that he is different from other skaters? He has own shows (he doesn't go to skate as an Averbukh's serf ), school, etc..
It is true that a great skater can sometimes not coach at all and vice versa so I agree with Tat that the proof is in the pudding..Orser never thought that he would be able to coach and he was chased for quite a while before he actually started coaching. He treats all his students as individuals and has a great team alongside him. I think Plushenko will be very good because he loves kids...loves the process and he has so much to pass on. I don't think he will turn it into a mill and you know there are lots of kids who would live to skate but do not have enough talent to make it. So if he has quite a few students like this then maybe if he runs across a child with great talent but no money he would be able to sponsor them...Just a thought
 

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
Messages
9,531
TAT's comments about B/S can be explained by one simple thing: She really can't stand Zhulin.

If B/S were with another coach, she would be raving about them and their crazy, upside down layback lift.

But she has never passed up a chance to mess with a Zhulin created program or to damn a team of his with faint praise or even shade.
Well she may have a point.
Give me one program that Zhulin has made in the past 8 years that is borderline decent.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,010
I'm very sorry that TaT doesn't like everyone's favorites. I am sure that this is very difficult to accept; I don't know what I'd do if she said something less than complimentary about some of my favorites. I might even have words for TAHbKA if that were the case!

:saint:
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
15,237
Well she may have a point.
Give me one program that Zhulin has made in the past 8 years that is borderline decent.
Give me one program Zhulin has made in the past 8 years that TAT hasn't insisted on tampering with by sticking in random cuts of music, LOL.
 

arakwafan2006

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2,888
How did she get to the point where she thinks fifth in ice dance would be great?? russians not medaling in ice dance at the Olympics for The first Time ever would be great?!? What's her solution for this horrible collapse?
For one, to be less dramatic that YOU are...
 

hanca

Values her privacy
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9,982
Give me one program that Zhulin has made in the past 8 years that is borderline decent.
Give me one program Zhulin has made in the past 8 years that TAT hasn't insisted on tampering with by sticking in random cuts of music, LOL.
This one, for example. It wouldn't have been a bad program for Bobrova/Soloviev, if Zhulin wasn't forced by the federation to switch the music to something completely unrelated to the story. The result after the improvement was awful, but the original program had potential. Which means it is not that Zhulin can't choreograph nice programs, but whoever is doing the quality control within russian federation has some weird ideas about how a program should look.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnp5jGD5-4k
 
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VGThuy

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31,991
It seems like Zhulin is sort of not "in" with the Russian Fed cool crowd. But then Tarasova recently did another interview where she said she's being pushed out and isn't "in" either.
 

Ka3sha

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Messages
6,660
Give me one program that Zhulin has made in the past 8 years that is borderline decent.
I/K's OD (and arguable FD) in 2009/10, both B/S's SD and FD in 2012/13, their Karenina FD last year (and TAT liked it a lot, if we are speaking about her), Tiff/Jon's "Amelie" and last year's waltz, Hurtado/Khaliavin's dances this year..
I'm not saying that all these dances are masterpieces but they are quite decent, imo
 

hanca

Values her privacy
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9,982
It seems like Zhulin is sort of not "in" with the Russian Fed cool crowd. But then Tarasova recently did another interview where she said she's being pushed out and isn't "in" either.
I think he is to be blamed for that though! If he had results, he would get 'in' the crowd. Tutberidze wasn't initially in either, and after she started getting the results with her skaters, the doors opened. If you look at the last few years, what did Zhulin manage? He got a couple who was considered as the most talented couple of current Russian ice dance, but the results were not that brilliant. So he started blaming the skaters. Ilynikh and Katsalapov are too lazy! Then he got Bobrova/Soloviev and yet the results are not quite there either. We can't say yet how Zahorski/Guerrairo would look under a different coach, but I hoped for better results from them too. And that's not a criticism of the skaters, because some of the choices Zhulin made, e.g. their free program, which they had to change at the beginning of the season...
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
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2,978
Why "lol" Nothing "lol"! :EVILLE:Some people are happy if they can mock Plushenko.

This is fact. If he will prove something he will be a coach. I'm sure when Orser begun his coaching career he wasn't a real coach, too. Right? The question was provocative because the answer is obvious.
Plushenko is too famous , maybe the emergence of his school annoys some people..That would have been great if he goes to an other school (for ex. to the CSKA) and works there.....

When they learn that he is different from other skaters? He has own shows (he doesn't go to skate as an Averbukh's serf ), school, etc..
I was laughing at the way she said that, not laughing at the idea as Plushenko as a coach. Everything I read from her makes me wish I knew Russian. Listening to her commentate is amazing and I don't even know what she is saying but you can feel the passion. The translated commentary of Mao's Oly LP was beautiful.
 

Vagabond

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15,745
But criticisms such as she skated "like a truck driver" really went too far IMO. There is a huge range of roles and styles between baby ballerina and a truck driver.
Skating "like a truck driver" is a compliment, if the truck driver in question is Rocky Marval. :)
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
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19,154
TAT's comments about B/S can be explained by one simple thing: She really can't stand Zhulin.
I am not sure that's true. She often praises and gushes about his work as a Judge on Ilya's "Ice Age" show. If there were professional and/or personal problems between TAT and Zhulin, Ilya would have eliminated one of them. He does not tolerate "confrontations between employees or contractors".

But yes, TAT is a "busy body" who likes to critique, give advise, and act like "top dog" of the skating world... she wants to be relevant .. and most people write it off to her age and status.. :lol:
 

MAXSwagg

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1,853
Well, she does say some nutty things sometimes that make me scratch my head. While other times (most times) I 100% agree with her...
 

Dobre

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7,306
I don't see her comments about dance as being negative. She didn't complain about Stepanova & Bukin's tenth place either, and people claim she favors them to no end.

Fifth & tenth place. Both Russian teams above teams they lost to last season and above teams they lost to at this year's Europeans. And we all know two of the U.S. teams took themselves out of the picture. It was a good finish for the Russian teams, and repeating it is far from a sure thing. This is the deepest ice dance field in history, IMO.

She knows what it takes to win an Olympic dance medal.
 

caseyedwards

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14,233
Yes, it's nothing new and yes, there is/has always been a rivalry between the Americans and the Russians but there's some truth behind it if you look at the situation right now. Compared to the North American teams, in no way shape or form are B/S deserving of that 5th place finish... How much more a medal?! Why so in denial? Russians and their fans need to accept the fact that they are weak in dance right now. And btw, the trash talking goes both ways. The Russians have said plenty of smack too.
I do accept Russian are weak in dance
And they have the worst coaches in dance and worst programs in dance and are not Learning anything about how to be successful in the current IJS from North American coaches and skaters who dominate completely! My point is when it is said Russia fixed the competition in dance so b/s would be fifth what's the point in fixing for fifth? Why not fix for first second or third. What kind of fixing or politics is about fifth place? Fifth is a huge disaster and embarrassment for Russia so what's the point? I think it's clear Russia doesn't care about dance anymore And it has affected tarasova who is fine with fifth at the Olympics and not medaling for the first time ever.
 

caseyedwards

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14,233
Totally unfairly IMO. She fought for her medals. She was a powerful, athletic skater and female skaters of that kind so often get criticized simply for not being baby ballerinas or for not being 'artistic' enough according to the feminine FS stereotype.

Gabbie Daleman highlighted that point in an interview after Worlds. She said she used to be embarrassed of her muscles, and used to hide her biceps all the time. :(

Slutskaya also had the misfortune of competing against Kwan, who attracted a particularly loud and fanatical group of fans (some of them, in any case).

But criticisms such as she skated "like a truck driver" really went too far IMO. There is a huge range of roles and styles between baby ballerina and a truck driver.



Dance is the hardest discipline for me to critique, and when I started watching skating in the 90s, I really didn't know whether Russia's dance dominance was the result of talent or politics. I figured then and figure now that it was a combination of both. And I found dance boring because what the results would be were clear even before competitions began. If I had really fancied any of the teams competing at that time, I might have felt differently. I did actually like d/s, so was okay with their 2009 win.

The pairs scandal of 2002 of course brought the whole issue to the fore. And it showed both sides of the issue - on the one hand, you had "never deserving", but on the other hand, you had "always deserving". Being Russian was associated with being best in both pairs and dance. Those who defended S&P on this board often did so at their peril, and the same remains true today.

Prior to Sochi someone commented that the "rightful home" of Pairs Gold was Russia. I think it was a Russian coach, and the inference was that the 2010 Olympic pairs competition had been an anomaly.

Sui/Han may have something to say about that in 2018. :)
I know it was unfair I was just mentioning it was said! Russia having winners that no one in North America thought was deserving wouldn't be new. So the idea that Russia is now Afraid to fix dance for bobrova and soloviev World titles is funny! So instead of fixing wins or medals they fix for fifth place because they know it would be unacceptable! Then maybe ice dance would be removed by Isu from Olympics!
 

PurpleRain

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193
I do accept Russian are weak in dance
And they have the worst coaches in dance and worst programs in dance and are not Learning anything about how to be successful in the current IJS from North American coaches and skaters who dominate completely! My point is when it is said Russia fixed the competition in dance so b/s would be fifth what's the point in fixing for fifth? Why not fix for first second or third. What kind of fixing or politics is about fifth place? Fifth is a huge disaster and embarrassment for Russia so what's the point? I think it's clear Russia doesn't care about dance anymore And it has affected tarasova who is fine with fifth at the Olympics and not medaling for the first time ever.
I guess Fifth is less embarassing than Eighth... To keep that Russian pride going...that at least they made it to the top 5 at the world stage? LOL...
 

caseyedwards

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14,233
I guess Fifth is less embarassing than Eighth... To keep that Russian pride going...that at least they made it to the top 5 at the world stage? LOL...
Will they ever try to win events like worlds or Olympics again? Or is just top 10 focused?
 

Garden Kitty

Tranquillo
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28,374
TAT is a gift to the sport - she's always interesting and a legend that contributes to the rich tapestry of skating personalities. The fact that she can be an intimidating task master, concerned mother bear and a "girl" who giggles when Joubert blows her a kiss - is a wonderful combination. Thanks for the translation- I may not always agree with her, but I'm always interested in what she has to say.
 

PurpleRain

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193
Will they ever try to win events like worlds or Olympics again? Or is just top 10 focused?
If they have the ability, why not? But right now, they're nowhere near... As for the rankings, if it saves them from shame to cheat, then they're gonna keep doing it. They're Russia after all... High and mighty Russia.
 

Brenda_Bottems

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254
If they have the ability, why not? But right now, they're nowhere near... As for the rankings, if it saves them from shame to cheat, then they're gonna keep doing it. They're Russia after all... High and mighty Russia.
Indeed,I have no doubt RUS will buy their way to an Olympics dance medal! I already cry for the Americans and Canadians.

-BB
 

caseyedwards

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Messages
14,233
If they have the ability, why not? But right now, they're nowhere near... As for the rankings, if it saves them from shame to cheat, then they're gonna keep doing it. They're Russia after all... High and mighty Russia.
I would have thought fifth was shame! This is the first pre Olympic worlds where Russia hasn't medaled while ice dance was in Olympics. So some background and insight as to how fifth became a great victory for Russian ice dance would be interesting! Many coaches like kustarova have said Russians do have all the skills and ability! They just have lost in the politics. Kustarova said all she designs are level 4 elements that aren't called level 4. If all technical panels are subjective and political russia has lost all political power in ice dance. But that should be rejected and all talented Russian dancers must be sent to coaches like dubreil or krylova or spiliband.
 

VGThuy

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31,991
Every coach of a top level team designs level 4 elements. Even the best teams lose levels.
 

Dobre

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7,306
So some background and insight as to how fifth became a great victory for Russian ice dance would be interesting!
Not a victory. Reality at this moment in time. Your background and insight:

1. The Soviet Union divided into many countries.
2. Russia & the Ukraine became their own countries without high levels of state-funding in sports for many years.
3. Former Soviet dance coaches moved halfway across the world so that their athletes would have ice to train on.
4. Former Soviet athletes began to train in different parts of the world and with non-Russian partners in search of the opportunity to compete at the elite level.
5. Russian dance coaches & their pupils began coaching skaters that lived halfway across the world so that they would be able to feed themselves and share their passion with the athletes who lived there.
6. The U.S., Canada, Italy, etc. developed strong dance teams that could compete with the Russian athletes.
7. The world of ice dance is now much deeper and all of these teams must battle with each other.
8. The Grand Prix/Champions Series/Grand Prix Final were introduced, giving dance teams from around the world multiple opportunities to compete with one another, gain feedback from international judges, learn what was required in order to improve within the sport, and develop their own reputations around the world.
9. The scoring system was changed, allowing more movement across the discipline.
10. Compulsories were eliminated, encouraging more movement across the discipline, less politics, and greater reward for clean, technically demanding short & free programs.
11. Many different teams began to medal in competition, instead of the same three or four throughout a quadrennium.
12. The professional circuit died, encouraging more dance teams to stay in the eligible ranks even after winning medals and moving down in the rankings.
13. Due to more movement, the opportunity to climb up & back up in the rankings encouraged more dance teams to stay in the eligible ranks.
14. Four Continents was established, creating a major international event for dance teams from outside Europe to challenge one another and develop stronger international credentials.
15. Ilinykh & Katsalapov split.
16. Soloviev had a serious knee injury that cost him a year of training.
17. Bobrova was banned from Worlds during the Meldonium mess.
18. Russia developed a singles skating tradition, now attracting strong athletes and coaches.
19. We now have the deepest dance field in history. Never before have there been three World Champions, seven world medalists, eleven major international medalists in the dance field.
 
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PurpleRain

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Messages
193
I would have thought fifth was shame! This is the first pre Olympic worlds where Russia hasn't medaled while ice dance was in Olympics. So some background and insight as to how fifth became a great victory for Russian ice dance would be interesting! Many coaches like kustarova have said Russians do have all the skills and ability! They just have lost in the politics. Kustarova said all she designs are level 4 elements that aren't called level 4. If all technical panels are subjective and political russia has lost all political power in ice dance. But that should be rejected and all talented Russian dancers must be sent to coaches like dubreil or krylova or spiliband.
Fifth is a huge bonus for B/S and it's no question that they got that because of politics... I don't know how many times I have repeated this, but I'm gonna have to keep saying it if I'm taking to a brick wall. Of course Russia's not gonna allow themselves to be non-contenders for the Olympic medal, even though they are really at an all time lowest of lows in dance right now. For what B/S put out, I personally think they should have been Eighth or Ninth. Kustarova can say whatever the heck she wants but in the end of the day, levels go back to execution not design. It would be great if Russian teams with potential, like Tiffany and Jon, are sent to Dubreil and Lauzon, or Stepanova and Bukin to Krylova but unfortunately, it's the Russian Fed who's making decisions. Stick to your roots or you're out. Pridefulness gets in the way of success... Which is such a shame for skaters who can have a bright future in the sport.
 

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