Sochi 2014 Women

[On My Own]

Well a discussion's been started because of Sotnikova's interview. What was your podium at the time? Has it changed 9 years down the line?

 

[Wyliefan]

I'd have to go back and watch again. I do remember thinking at the time, though, that Yuna looked like she'd rather be doing anything else. I found her performance lackluster at best. So I was never one of those ranting that she wuzrobbed. (Though if Adelina was doping, then I guess I have to admit Yuna really WUZ robbed, lackluster or not!)

 

[Sylvia]

Olympics' YT channel has the full SP replay for the Women's individual event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nL4pajKlSg
Belinda Noonan is the commentator.

I can't find an "official" FS full playlist but here are the free skates of:

#12 Asada: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yscAKatTJDs
#17 Edmunds (NBC broadcast): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsaCaB1E1NA
#19 Lipnitskaia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7HaVzl1R2M
#20 Kostner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Oc7FJ7tlk
#21 Sotnikova: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrVL5tM926s
#22 Gold:
#23 Wagner:
#24 Kim (final skater): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXKJvTVW9g

Results page: http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/

 

[briancoogaert]

Carolina Kostner and Yu Na Kim were absolutely amazing in the SP, they should have been ahead with a lot of points !
With Yu Na, Carolina and Mao in the top 3 in the LP.

 

[her grace]

At the time, I thought the event was so well-skated that it was very easy to wuz rob since the top 3 all skated so well. You could make an argument for any of them winning the gold. I had Kim first, but didn't think it was a highway robbery. I also think Asada skated the best of any of the ladies in the FS--what could have been if the SP had gone well!

Now, I think that it's more likely than not that Sotnikova cheated and shouldn't have a medal at all.

 

[On My Own]

At the time, I thought the event was so well-skated that it was very easy to wuz rob since the top 3 all skated so well. You could make an argument for any of them winning the gold. I had Kim first, but didn't think it was a highway robbery.

Same I think. I had Kim, Sotnikova, Kostner, in that order, within 5-6 points of each other.

I also think Asada skated the best of any of the ladies in the FS--what could have been if the SP had gone well!

I thought she deserved 4th, because she did deserve a nice lead in the LP, easy to beat quite a few others who did better in the SP. Would have had Gold in 5th.

Now, I think that it's more likely than not that Sotnikova cheated and shouldn't have a medal at all.

So coming to this, I think the podium, if anything comes off this "investigation", should very much be Kim, Kostner, Asada. But I think it would be a pleasant medal for Gold overall if it does happen.

@Sylvia

Wagner: https://olympics.com/en/video/ashley-wagner-usa-women-s-figure-skating-sochi-2014-replays
Gold: https://olympics.com/en/video/gracie-gold-usa-women-s-figure-skating-sochi-2014-replays

I just had to sign up. IDK if it is the same for the rest of you.

 

[Wyliefan]

So coming to this, I think the podium, if anything comes off this "investigation", should very much be Kim, Kostner, Asada.

What reason would there be to skip over Gracie? Invalidating one medal because of doping wouldn't allow them to just start changing the whole order around.

 

[On My Own]

What reason would there be to skip over Gracie? Invalidating one medal because of doping wouldn't allow them to just start changing the whole order around.

I mean that I thought the 4th place should have been Mao, based off how I scored them. So if we disqualify Sotnikova, I would (personally) give the bronze medal to Mao.

In reality it will go to Gracie, which is still fine by me.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

TBH I don't think it works well with the scores since she did have the lowest TES of the top 3 in both short and free, but when Carolina skated her free, I felt she should have won it. And I say this as someone who was actively a non-fan of hers for most of her career. Yu Na lost PCS to Carolina in the SP even though Yu Na gave a much stronger performance in the SP than the LP. I thought Yu Na beating Carolina in PCS in the LP based on the performance she gave was a joke. (Sotnikova beating her on PCS in the LP was also a joke)

Overall, I felt the podium was very close and could have gone any way, but I would have had Yu Na in 3rd of the 3. I did not think she was a clear winner at all. 2010 it was not.

 

[Tesla]

At the time, I remember thinking Yuna skated like she didn’t want to be there, Carolina skated to not lose a medal, and Adelina skated like she wanted the gold more than anything. I was ok with Adelina winning but if she doped, she needs to lose her medal.

 

[Coco]

At the time I thought it was unfair how the judging of components seem to change so drastically from the years leading up to Sochi. Looking back, though, Kim was a shocking 8th place in base value for the FS. Most of her victories in the prior seasons came against people who were also only doing six triples or less. But in Sochi, I think the other 8 skaters in the top 9 were at least attempting seven.

I did love Sotnikova's SP that year. She only did the easier triple toe triple toe, but it was the best triple toe triple toe I have ever seen a woman do.

The difficulty of her short program between elements holds up today. And the way she delivered it was amazing. She was always a skater who was very engaged and had good performance quality even if her posture / carriage and choreography weren't 1st rate all the time.

I think people have a hard time evaluating Adelina's skating with an unbiased viewpoint because her name alone evokes such animosity.

The creepiest thing to me, aside from Mao's outrageously low scores, was those fake quotes attributed to Kim on the Olympic website after the event. Like seriously, that was openly nefarious.

 

[Wyliefan]

I don't remember that! How did they come to misquote her?

 

[On My Own]

Looking back, though, Kim was a shocking 8th place in base value for the FS.

Actually, she was ninth! But I don't think such a "ranking" matters much. Just as an example, she's got 57.49 base value here. https://skatingscores.com/1314/oly/sr/women/i/long/kor/yuna_kim/

OK. But Kostner's got 58.45 base value, and is "6th". https://skatingscores.com/1314/oly/sr/women/i/long/ita/carolina_kostner/ 0.96 difference.

Ashley Wagner, 57.79, "7th". https://skatingscores.com/1314/oly/sr/women/i/long/usa/ashley_wagner/ 0.30 difference.

Polina Edmunds is "8th" with 57.74. https://skatingscores.com/1314/oly/sr/women/i/long/usa/polina_edmunds/ 0.25 difference.

Not very meaningful to me overall. This was also when edge calls weren't given a base value deduction, as shown on the skating scores website.

I did love Sotnikova's SP that year. She only did the easier triple toe triple toe, but it was the best triple toe triple toe I have ever seen a woman do.

I did like the SP, but not the 3T+3T. It was her double axel and her spins that made me think she was (rightly) second in the SP, even if the gap was too small for me.

Her fan spiral into the 2A followed by the twizzle exit really was fantastic. https://youtu.be/3nL4pajKlSg?t=13321

Her step sequence though. I don't necessarily understand how she got that level 4 with that mess. Which is another reason I don't exactly trust the base value ranking/argument.

I think people have a hard time evaluating Adelina's skating with an unbiased viewpoint because her name alone evokes such animosity.

I don't really know about that. At the time, I thought many people were convinced that Russia were cheating, and therefore it was more anti-Russia/anti-Putin, rather than anti-Sotnikova necessarily. Just as an example, it wasn't just Korean Yuna fans who were expressing their displeasure at the time, I do remember many Americans and Canadians were too, and there was the Kostner squad saying so as well, going with the "Russia is evil" route.

But even then I do remember many still felt she won rightly, or should have been second.

I do think there's a lot of bad sentiment now after the past year or so though. And some Koreabots + other pyschos never did let it go with Sochi and attacked a bunch of Russian/Eteri girls after Sotnikova.

The creepiest thing to me, aside from Mao's outrageously low scores, was those fake quotes attributed to Kim on the Olympic website after the event. Like seriously, that was openly nefarious.

Which ones?

 

[viennese]

Mao Asada's comeback in the free skate was astounding.
I still love Gracie Gold's free skate. She did a great job in Sochi. So much pressure on her and she was on fire.

 

[barbarafan]

Carolina Kostner and Yu Na Kim were absolutely amazing in the SP, they should have been ahead with a lot of points !
With Yu Na, Carolina and Mao in the top 3 in the LP.

yep..... there was fiddling in the marking as well. Brian Orser was asked his opinion after competition and he said he felt overall he had Kostner as first. Not sure what he said about the others but obviously if there was pee fiddling on the pee tests Sodnikova needs to be taken out of the equation.

 

[millyskate]

I'd have to go back and watch again. I do remember thinking at the time, though, that Yuna looked like she'd rather be doing anything else. I found her performance lackluster at best. So I was never one of those ranting that she wuzrobbed. (Though if Adelina was doping, then I guess I have to admit Yuna really WUZ robbed, lackluster or not!)

Same

 

[Coco]

Here is an article on the fake quotes:

The IOC Printed Fake Quotes of Kim Yu-na Praising Adelina Sotnikova

The way figure skating's governing organization have acted in the wake of Adelina Sotnikova's contentious gold medal win has been a study how to act suspiciously guilty after a controversial result.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Frau Muller]

Beside Mao, I loved Sotnikova the most.

I’ve never cared for Kostner’s general aesthetic.

I like Yuna but didn’t care for Bezik’s hype about “This is the tango, etc.” (Glad that Yuna won in 2010.)

I was thrilled when Sotnikova won in 2014. Mao couldn’t win after the SP, so I was with Sotnikova as #1.

 

[On My Own]

Here is an article on the fake quotes:

The IOC Printed Fake Quotes of Kim Yu-na Praising Adelina Sotnikova

The way figure skating's governing organization have acted in the wake of Adelina Sotnikova's contentious gold medal win has been a study how to act suspiciously guilty after a controversial result.

www.theatlantic.com

I don't think I'd seen this before. Thanks for the article.

 

[airgelaal]

I was at the Cup of russia in 2013. And it was an obvious preparation for the Olympics. The judging was so disgusting that even the local public was in shock. Then it became clear to me that it would be very difficult for non-russian figure skaters in Sochi.
Due to events in my country, I don’t remember the details well, but I remember the general impression: everything was organized for russian victories and only these victories were of interest to everyone. The audience behaved badly and I was shocked by what I saw. I remember that the athletes also complained.
Sotnikova's victory did not surprise me. The judges wouldn't let her lose.

 

[ChelleC]

I remember checking the results while on break at work, and being utterly shocked that Sotnikova had beat Kim and Kostner. I believe I watched both Sotnikova and Kim on my phone before watching on TV later that night. Watching on the phone, I thought Kim should have won, but when I watched on TV I understood why Sotnikova had won, and I thought it was the right choice. Of course, if Sotnikova was doped, then it's a moot point.

Mao Asada should have won the FS though.

 

[Rukia]

I would have had Mao Asada win because I would have had her win the free by 100 points or so. Or I'd just have wiped the short scores idk.

I'm kidding obviously but that remains of the great free skates of all time.

 

[bardtoob]

Olympics' YT channel has the full SP replay for the Women's individual event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nL4pajKlSg
Belinda Noonan is the commentator.

I can't believe I watched the whole 3 hours and 55 minutes.

I feel better about Polina Edmunds representing the USA. She skated really well.

Sotnikova had similar content to Weinzierl (10) of Germany and Kexin Zhang (14) of China except they had 3Lz instead of 3F, but I really didn't see much difference in skating skills, although they were getting 5s and 6s.

Watching it in HD is not all it's cracked up to be. I didn't like seeing the razor knicks in Sotnikova's armpits.

 

[On My Own]

Sotnikova had similar content to Weinzierl (10) of Germany and Kexin Zhang (14) of China except they had 3Lz instead of 3F, but I really didn't see much difference in skating skills, although they were getting 5s and 6s.

I thought she skated with a bit more power, but I kind of agree in terms of basic skating? I'm genuinely not sure what to make of her "level 4 step sequences". But I guess Sotnikova did a bit more in terms of "multidirectional ability" and things like that between her elements.

I can't believe I watched the whole 3 hours and 55 minutes.

I remember being dumb enough to do the entire LP when it was happening lol...

 

[screech]

Overall, I felt the podium was very close and could have gone any way, but I would have had Yu Na in 3rd of the 3. I did not think she was a clear winner at all. 2010 it was not.

I was the same as you. My podium was
1. Kostner
2. Sotnikova
3. Kim

 

[morqet]

For me, it's always been an event that highlighted the problems with the way PCS was constructed.

Kostner's free program was more artistic, more aesthetically pleasing, had a real choreographic style. But, it also had a couple of big pauses, some jumps were really telegraphed and lacking in transitions, and as mentioned by others, not so much multidirectional skating. Sotnikova's long program was ticking off all the PCS checkboxes, even if it wasn't such a coherent piece of work as a whole. So, I didn't have any problem with Sotnikova winning under the scoring system as it was written.

 

[SidelineSkater]

I'm no expert when it comes to PCS scoring, especially when it comes to Skating Skills, but there's no way Sotnikova should have been anywhere near Yuna or Carolina. You could see the PCS bump coming for the Russians at Euros. Also, the questionable level calling on the Step Sequences made a difference.

Yuna was at a disadvantage for the LP because of not doing a 3Loop.

After Lip faltered in the short, the Russians needed to pull a rabbit out of a hat, and they did.

 

[bardtoob]

. . . even if her posture / carriage and choreography weren't 1st rate all the time.

. . . and she skated to Carmen

 

[tony]

I'm pretty sure I always thought the final standings should've been Kostner, Kim, and the Sotnikova, but Kostner was really tight on some of her latter jumps and I think she got away with them not being called. PCS, mostly give it to her even if the program was slow-moving and not the most complex.

Kim was lovely in the short but did absolutely nothing for me in the free skate. Talk about trying to phone it in.

The issue I've always had with Sotnikova is her boost in PCS because of an exciting skate. 9.75's for choreography and interpretation? Absolutely not.

And no, Kim didn't deserve anywhere near a 10.00 for her performance, either, so it wasn't as if Sotnikova was the only beneficiary.

I've brought it up before, but I truly still wonder if Lipnitskaya had drawn to skate after Sotnikova in the short whether we would've seen such high PCS for Adelina there. We all know Julia was the chosen one for that Olympics until her 3F fall.

 

[On My Own]

. . . and she skated to Carmen

I think I had more of a problem with that version of Rondo Capriccioso... And then someone else surpassed it several years later...