Skaters that could have accomplished more if their parent wasn't their coach

[Seerek]

Any skaters who you felt could have accomplished more in their eligible career had they transitioned away from their parent(s) being their primary coach(es)?

 

[alchemy void]

Surya.

 

[Vagabond]

Michelle Kwan

 

[savchenkoboss]

Tiffany Chin and Surya Bonaly are the first two who come to mind.

Mira Leung too. Mira was never going to be a world beater, but she could have had better results than what she had if she had a real coach for an extended period. And FWIW McLeod is not a particularly good coach either.

 

[vireo]

Surya Bonaly. No contest. Surya's mother didn't have a clue. I have to wonder what Surya might have accomplished had she had the benefit of quality coaching.

 

[savchenkoboss]

In fairness to Surya and her mother, mainly her mother, it is a well known fact Didier:

1. Physically and emotionally abused Surya during his time coaching her through all her teenage years.
2. Made her practice the quad over and over, and neglected doing any work on her basics, stroking, or even basic jump technique. He wanted the fame that would come from her doing a quad.
3. Forced the ridiculous "Reunion Island" story out of their camp, and threatened to withhold her from any international events should she dump him as a coach in retaliation, or deny the story. And we all know he easily has the clout to do this or virtually anything he wants, he owns French skating, and we also know he is more than pety and vindictive enough to do this, nearly ending Bruno's career by withholding from releasing him for almost 2 years, and refusing to release numerous other skaters who couldnt possible find a suitable partner in France.

After all that wouldnt you be overprotective of your daughter, and maybe be scared to give full reigns to another coach, especialy another man, ever again. It is that darn bastard that wrecked things for Surya, and led to a lot of her overprotective mother, I really believe that.

 

[berthesghost]

Any skaters who you felt could have accomplished more in their eligible career had they transitioned away from their parent(s) being their primary coach(es)?

It’s hard to imagine famous skaters like Gaby Seyfert or Yuka Sato doing better than they did. I’m sure there are examples at the lower levels but I don’t know them because they weren’t successful.

 

[Marco]

Michelle Kwan

1997 might have played out very differently. I know papa Kwan was not her coach then but the decision to switch boots was very costly. And if Tara didn't suddenly take all of Michelle's titles that year, the next year would probably have played out very differently as well.

And not having someone proper to put her on the ice at SLC...

And in 2003 when she was injured, the decision not to undergo surgery and opting for acupunture instead was in hindsight probably not a good decision too. If she had taken 2004 and 05 off and come back healthy in 2006, I think she could probably pull out more triples than Shizuka in Turin.

Mira Leung too. Mira was never going to be a world beater, but she could have had better results than what she had if she had a real coach for an extended period. And FWIW McLeod is not a particularly good coach either.

Exactly. Leaving her mum out of her training for McLeod wasn't going to work.


But I feel like this is cherry picking. If their parents weren't that involved / invested in their skating in the 1st place, perhaps they wouldn't even have achieved what they did.

 

[savchenkoboss]

One thing about Shizuka is I think she part strategized in Turin. She was doing triple-triples galore in practice, even some 3-3-2s and 3-3-3s so to not only attempt a triple-triple, but only 5 triples instead of 6 or 7 (which she could do even without a triple-triple) seemed strange. But Cohen had just bombed, and I have heard from numerous sources post event Slutskaya was crashing and burning hard in practice, and even struggling to keep her health issues under control at the altitude in Turin, so maybe she knew Slutskaya would blow and not even make 5 or 6 triples. I think if someone else, anyone else of note, be it Kwan, Asada, whoever, was in the event, left the skate, and wasnt a wrecking ball in practice, she probably does more or atleast tries more.

Then again I could be wrong. Her triple-triples werent actually fully rotated often, so maybe she knew there was a good shot they would get hit by <s which is why she didnt try any, and the doubled loop just happened I guess.

ITA on Mira. She needed coaching by anyone but her Mom or McLeod if she was ever going to fix her weaknesses and fulfill her potential in the sport. IMO it shows how talented Sandhu was he actually had a shot to win world medals if he didnt blow and won a Grand Prix final coached by McLeod. I have friends in Vancouver who are familiar with the situation at that rink and believe me McLeod is a chaotic and virtually incompetent coach.

 

[Marco]

Shizuka reportedly watered down the 3/3 and instead aimed for a clean performance after Sasha crashed so that she could secure a medal. I believe she was aiming for 6 triples but popped that loop accidentally.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

About the best opposite example I can think of, was how Brian Boitano detailed when he turned sixteen, his mom threw him the keys to her car, and said he could drive himself to the rink every morning before dawn instead.

I love that!

 

[savchenkoboss]

Shizuka reportedly watered down the 3/3 and instead aimed for a clean performance after Sasha crashed so that she could secure a medal. I believe she was aiming for 6 triples but popped that loop accidentally.

Interesting, so she was happy to try for silver behind Slutskaya at that point?

 

[theredpepper]

Ann Patrice McDonough?

 

[Maximillian]

I don't think Mama Cohen was the best influence and led to a lot of coaching changes through the years, where perhaps stability would have been helpful. Who knows though, whether that would have helped.

 

[honey]

I don't think Mama Cohen was the best influence and led to a lot of coaching changes through the years, where perhaps stability would have been helpful. Who knows though, whether that would have helped.

I think there was also quite a lot of Sasha herself just not listening to her coaches, especially early on. What was the quote from 2000 nationals? “She looks me straight in the eye and then turns around and does whatever she wants”? Something like that.

I think she was very focused and disciplined with Tarasova and it showed in her skating (though still
mistake prone). She was adrift for most of that 04-05 season, with Wagner making all kinds of accusations about her work ethic and lack of trust. She went back to Nicks and had a goood worlds in 2005 and I think by that point was taking his advice for the most part.

But you’re right, the influence other people in her orbit had could have played a part in the way her career went. And not saying she didn’t have a great career; she certainly has a lot more than most will ever have.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Honestly I never even heard of Mama Cohen until now.

 

[Seerek]

Some of the more recent examples would include (not an exhaustive list):

Takahito Mura, Misha Ge, Daniel Samohin, Alex Majorov, Matteo Rizzo (but not primary), Andrew Torgashev
Joshi Helgesson, Nicole Rajicova, Eliska Brezinova

 

[Maximillian]

Honestly I never even heard of Mama Cohen until now.

Well, you're new to the board, right...

 

[savchenkoboss]

Well, you're new to the board, right...

I mean in general from watching it, from skating friends, etc...I didn't even realize she was someone noteworthy as a problem parent. Not saying she isn't, just that it is first time news to me.

 

[Maximillian]

I think there was also quite a lot of Sasha herself just not listening to her coaches, especially early on. What was the quote from 2000 nationals? “She looks me straight in the eye and then turns around and does whatever she wants”? Something like that.

I think she was very focused and disciplined with Tarasova and it showed in her skating (though still
mistake prone). She was adrift for most of that 04-05 season, with Wagner making all kinds of accusations about her work ethic and lack of trust. She went back to Nicks and had a goood worlds in 2005 and I think by that point was taking his advice for the most part.

But you’re right, the influence other people in her orbit had could have played a part in the way her career went. And not saying she didn’t have a great career; she certainly has a lot more than most will ever have.

No, I defiintely agree, that it was probably primarily Sasha herself; but I have gotten the distinct impression that Mama was not popular with some folks (whereas Sasha herself was generally liked by most people regardless of her training habits)

 

[Vagabond]

Ann Patrice McDonough?

Was her mother ever her primary coach?

 

[el henry]

Some of the more recent examples would include (not an exhaustive list):

Takahito Mura, Misha Ge, Daniel Samohin, Alex Majorov, Matteo Rizzo (but not primary), Andrew Torgashev
Joshi Helgesson, Nicole Rajicova, Eliska Brezinova

Are these examples of skaters coached by their parents, and not skaters who would have improved had they not been coached by their parents?

I am asking because I think Misha had the perfect situation, being coached by his dad. Switching feds and sticking with his dad allowed Misha to do Misha. And Misha doing Misha, rather than being sucked into practicing 85 quads and losing his individuality, has been a gift to skating.

Andrew Torgashev is 16. He went to Christy Krall (in May maybe?) and is no longer coached by his folks. Timing sounds about right to me

 

[Vagabond]

Danny Salmon coached by someone else would have probably reached the Free Skate more often.

 

[Seerek]

It’s hard to imagine famous skaters like Gaby Seyfert or Yuka Sato doing better than they did. I’m sure there are examples at the lower levels but I don’t know them because they weren’t successful.

In all fairness, Peter Dunfield was part of Yuka Sato's coaching team for the duration of her senior career (dating back to at least 1989).

 

[theredpepper]

Was her mother ever her primary coach?

Oh, you might be right. Sorry.

 

[giselle23]

Polina Edmunds.

 

[Vagabond]

It’s hard to imagine famous skaters like Gaby Seyfert or Yuka Sato doing better than they did.

Seyfert sure would have had a more successful coaching career if her mom hadn't poached her star student.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Polina Edmunds.

I thought her mother was involved a lot in her packaging and costuming but was never her main coach.

 

[aftershocks]

Are these examples of skaters coached by their parents, and not skaters who would have improved had they not been coached by their parents?

Yeah, I agree that each of the more current skaters @Seerek listed haven't all suffered from being coached by their parents, especially not Misha Ge nor Matteo Rizzo so far. I think Misha worked very well with his Dad, and ended up pushing himself to go as far as he could with his talents. Together, they achieved some good results.

The skater on Seerek's list that first came to my mind though is Andrew Torgashev. I remember one time in the kiss 'n cry after a poor outing when he was sitting between both of his parents, and his mother was giving him some disappointing glares. Andrew looked positively miserable as his Mom said something to him in Russian. Meanwhile, his Dad tends to always have a stern look on his face. Anyway, that was fairly much the last time we saw Andrew's mother in the kiss 'n cry. He looked to be carrying way too much emotion from his parents on his shoulders. Poor Andrew was drowning in their high expectations, after having a slow comeback from being out for a season due to injury and rehab. Of course Andrew had shown great promise on the junior circuit prior to being injured, but seemingly he was being pushed too much for winning results when he returned to competition.

I hope Andrew hasn't learned too many bad habits with his recent tendencies toward mistakes, particularly on the 3-axel. Hopefully things will look up for him under his new coach, Christy Krall. Maybe it's okay for his Dad to still be around as long as he doesn't interfere too much.