Skaters and retirement

[Winnipeg]

Yes I meant Richard Callahan. Just wonder why he is not coaching

 

[Sylvia]

If you mean Richard Callaghan, he's turning 70 this year. I suspect he's either retired or semi-retired. Todd Eldredge is a coach now himself.

Yes I meant Richard Callahan. Just wonder why he is not coaching

Callaghan is still coaching in Florida, AFAIK.

Eldredge is coaching and based in the Dallas area now.

 

[MacMadame]

Callaghan is still coaching in Florida, AFAIK.

Well there you go.

 

[maureenfarone]

Here is a link to Todd's skating school: https://www.championsofamerica.com/coaching-2/ Mr. Callaghan is listed as the Chief Operating Officer and Coach at the school which is located in Plano, TX

 

[lala]

Here is a link to Todd's skating school: https://www.championsofamerica.com/coaching-2/ Mr. Callaghan is listed as the Chief Operating Officer and Coach at the school which is located in Plano, TX

I liked Todd.

 

[Winnipeg]

Yet I don't recall seeing either with a skater at worlds.

 

[Lara]

She is, at least in 2016, attending McGill University medical school.

Confirmed http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/a120f037-d900-4365-8c69-352d710cdf06|_0.html

When I applied years ago (ended up waitlisted), the emphasis was very much on grades/MCAT score rather than extracurriculars - I don't even remember submitting an essay as for the US. Even if it's changed somewhat and Rochette's skating credentials gave her a boost, it's very impressive she was accepted.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Considering how financially hobbling this sport is, and how the level of technical merit has shot through the roof on a world level in the last year or so, do elite skaters assess their results, progress and potential on a yearly basis?

I'm wondering at what point athletes consider their international chances and sit down with their team (trainers, parents, etc), and either redirect their focus (ie: work towards show skating versus the rigours of competition), consider the option of making money back coaching instead, or move onto other things.

 

[clairecloutier]

Considering how financially hobbling this sport is, and how the level of technical merit has shot through the roof on a world level in the last year or so, do elite skaters assess their results, progress and potential on a yearly basis?

I'm wondering at what point athletes consider their international chances and sit down with their team (trainers, parents, etc), and either redirect their focus (ie: work towards show skating versus the rigours of competition), consider the option of making money back coaching instead, or move onto other things.

I feel like elite skaters, at least in most countries, probably do assess their results/potential on an annual basis to decide whether to continue. Not only that, I think probably a lot of lower-level skaters do as well.

You mentioned the current leap forward in technical merit. It's exciting to watch as a fan ... but also a bit concerning to me. The thing is, it's raising the bar so very high for young skaters coming up in the sport. The level of risk is increasing; the level of commitment needed to even reach success on the junior level, much less senior, is increasing. Everything is becoming harder; and at a time when the sport is actually receding in popularity in many countries; and also at a time of increased income inequality and financial stress for many families. It's just kind of a worrisome combination. I can't help but look at it as a parent ... and the picture is not encouraging.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I feel like elite skaters, at least in most countries, probably do assess their results/potential on an annual basis to decide whether to continue. Not only that, I think probably a lot of lower-level skaters do as well.

You mentioned the current leap forward in technical merit. It's exciting to watch as a fan ... but also a bit concerning to me. The thing is, it's raising the bar so very high for young skaters coming up in the sport. The level of risk is increasing; the level of commitment needed to even reach success on the junior level, much less senior, is increasing. Everything is becoming harder; and at a time when the sport is actually receding in popularity in many countries; and also at a time of increased income inequality and financial stress for many families. It's just kind of a worrisome combination. I can't help but look at it as a parent ... and the picture is not encouraging.

Further to this, the minimum standard just to reach the elite level is increasing year by year as well, especially with several junior Russian girls now landing quads in practice.

I got a bit of a blasting from one or two people on another forum, when I suggested whether it is wise for countries to send skaters to international events, if they are on the cusp of the minimum standard at that level. Of course, it is great to send a skater for the experience alone, but how does it impact that athlete against competition light years ahead of them? Will it make them work harder or risk injury trying things they're not entirely comfortable doing, who knows? Or will it reinforce how difficult the sport really is?

Not everyone has the natural ability or the ice time to do multiple triple and quadruple jumps, etc.

 

[clairecloutier]

Further to this, the minimum standard just to reach the elite level is increasing year by year as well, especially with several junior Russian girls now landing quads in practice.

I got a bit of a blasting from one or two people on another forum, when I suggested whether it is wise for countries to send skaters to international events, if they are on the cusp of the minimum standard at that level. Of course, it is great to send a skater for the experience alone, but how does it impact that athlete against competition light years ahead of them? Will it make them work harder or risk injury trying things they're not entirely comfortable doing, who knows? Or will it reinforce how difficult the sport really is?

Not everyone has the natural ability or the ice time to do multiple triple and quadruple jumps, etc.

I think these are all valid questions.

I just look at young skaters around me at the rink landing double jumps ... And think how far they would have to improve to even be competitive in juniors and maybe get a JGP slot someday. And also, how much money their parents would have to put into it for that to happen, and the likelihood of it all working out.

Of course, you can argue that figure skating has always been this way. It's always taken many years of training/hard work to get to the top. But the bar these days has just never been higher; and yes, quad jumps and throw quad jumps throw a whole new level of risk into the equation.

I have to say that, as a parent, if my daughter were to really get serious about skating these days ... I would have a lot of trepidation about it. It's not something I would enter into lightly. And I don't know if I would have said that, so much, back in the 1990s or early 2000s.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I have to say that, as a parent, if my daughter were to really get serious about skating these days ... I would have a lot of trepidation about it. It's not something I would enter into lightly. And I don't know if I would have said that, so much, back in the 1990s or early 2000s.

That is probably the marker to as to where the sport was then, and where it is now.
With compulsory figures and 6.0 judging no longer in the equation, skating for points is now the key to success.

We only need to look at the likes of Alina Zagitova, who has worked the system by including all of her jumping passes after the two minute mark. That tactic alone, puts her at a higher level against similarly skilled skaters.

 

[clairecloutier]

That is probably the marker to as to where the sport was then, and where it is now.
With compulsory figures and 6.0 judging no longer in the equation, skating for points is now the key to success.

We only need to look at the likes of Alina Zagitova, who has worked the system by including all of her jumping passes after the two minute mark. That tactic alone, puts her at a higher level against similarly skilled skaters.

Right. I think the physical demands of the sport are just so great now. And it's not that such technical accomplishments as Zagitova's aren't exciting; I just don't know if it's something that many skaters can realistically aspire to.

 

[jlai]

But how long can she keep doing this tech level? Many Russian girls can only land jumps consistently for 2-3 years

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

But how long can she keep doing this tech level? Many Russian girls can only land jumps consistently for 2-3 years

Good point.
The list of Russian ladies that have peaked and been pushed to the back of the pack by newer stars is both staggering and frightening at the same time.

 

[Sylvia]

Yet I don't recall seeing either with a skater at worlds.

My impression is that Callaghan is not coaching that level of skaters these days. I've seen his name listed as a coach with a Florida club and perhaps he's still collaborating on seminars in conjunction with Eldredge.

Most skaters-turned-coaches make a living coaching at the grassroots level. Not seeing them in the kiss & cry at Worlds or Nationals doesn't mean they're not coaching.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Most skaters-turned-coaches make a living coaching at the grassroots level. Not seeing them in the kiss & cry at Worlds or Nationals doesn't mean they're not coaching.

Agreed. I remember reading in a book by Bev Smith a few years back that for many elite trainers, that teaching grass roots and adult level skaters was actually their bread and butter. Coaching at the olympic level was the exception, more than the rule.

 

[bladesofgorey]

Column in Outside Online that discusses the difficulty of sub-elite runners retiring from running because it's so much a part of their sense of self even though they're not pros running for endorsement money.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2194836/why-its-nearly-impossible-quit-racing

Your link was broken (I got to see a cute running birdie tho) so here is the article for those who are curious^^^^

And yeah, that's the sport I was referring to in my post above. I was sub-elite myself (had some small gear sponsorships, won money sometimes, qualified for the Oly trials, in the top 20 at the Boston Marathon, etc. but not truly competitive on the world stage) and it was horrible for me when I had to retire suddenly in my 30s due to an injury.

 

[MacMadame]

it was horrible for me when I had to retire suddenly in my 30s due to an injury.

I think it's always tough when you have to give something up not on your own terms. I think that is why we see a lot of figure skaters just gradually withdrawing (do less and less comps until one season they don't do any) or staying in a season or so after people expect them to retire. It seems like they are kind of gearing up for it and waiting until they really feel done.

 

[Garden Kitty]

https://www.outsideonline.com/2194836/why-its-nearly-impossible-quit-racing

Your link was broken (I got to see a cute running birdie tho) so here is the article for those who are curious^^^^
.

Thanks. Your accomplishments are impressive, so it's interesting to hear your take on the issue.

 

[AYS]

Agreed. I remember reading in a book by Bev Smith a few years back that for many elite trainers, that teaching grass roots and adult level skaters was actually their bread and butter. Coaching at the olympic level was the exception, more than the rule.

Considering the ratio of grassroots skaters to those who can even aspire to the Olympic level, this is not surprising. We even have many elite coaches who don't make it regularly to the world or Olympic level. There are so few spots at the top. Just as for skaters.

And I'm sure many coaches find grassroots coaching very fulfilling and like the way it fits into their lifestyles better than they would elite coaching. For example, your work can be entirely local or, if you have lower level competitors, you only need to travel regionally or at most occasionally to other parts of your own country.

Re: retiring, as someone who has a lot of trouble with the concepts of change and permanence and with decision-making, I can easily understand why a lot of skaters never actually retire, they just eventually don't compete anymore.

 

[AxelAnnie]

https://www.outsideonline.com/2194836/why-its-nearly-impossible-quit-racing

Your link was broken (I got to see a cute running birdie tho) so here is the article for those who are curious^^^^

And yeah, that's the sport I was referring to in my post above. I was sub-elite myself (had some small gear sponsorships, won money sometimes, qualified for the Oly trials, in the top 20 at the Boston Marathon, etc. but not truly competitive on the world stage) and it was horrible for me when I had to retire suddenly in my 30s due to an injury.

Impressive!

Retiring because you have completed what you set our to do, or are proud of what you accomplished and want to move on to the next chapter is one thing. I would imagine it is still difficult and challenging.

But, having to retire because of injury has got to be horrid.

 

[hanca]

But how long can she keep doing this tech level? Many Russian girls can only land jumps consistently for 2-3 years

Well, all they need is to time it well so that one of those 2-3 years is the olympic year. But even if it wasn't the Olympic year, it is not bad achievement to have gold medal at worlds (or any medal at worlds, actually).

 

[mackiecat]

For some of the Japanese skaters like Fumie, I understand the had long term contracts with sponsors and HAD to keep skating to honour those contracts.

 

[Sylvia]

From Sasha Cohen's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/BVkWlb3h8op/
"Very excited to see my essay on life after the #Olympics next month in #sportsillustrated"

Here it is (a VERY interesting read!): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/sasha-cohen-in-sports-illustrated.101528/

 

[concorde]

Did Gracie Gold ever graduate high school? It was pointed out to me awhile back that her bio showed her as attending an online HS while Carlie's bio showed Carlie as having graduated from the same online HS.

 

[Sylvia]

Did Gracie Gold ever graduate high school?

Yes: https://education.missouri.edu/2015...ld-gives-mu-high-school-commencement-address/

 

[concorde]

Yes: https://education.missouri.edu/2015...ld-gives-mu-high-school-commencement-address/

Good!

 

[kwanfan1818]

A great documentary on this topic is "Restless Creature," which chronicles ballerina Wendy Whelan's last year with NYCB, which started out with a debilitating labrum tear. Marc Philippon was her surgeon; he's the go-to guy for figure skaters and other athletes with the same injury.

ETA: Here's a review of the doc:
https://www.seattleweekly.com/arts/in-restless-creature-a-portrait-of-pain-and-meaning/