Skate fitting today

[treesprite]

I was already in Waldorf for a sharpening, and there was open appointment time, so I had a serious fitting done, in anticipation of some extra funds I'm expecting to have soon. It was a very thorough fitting, with tracings, photographs, and all the measuring; he pointed out that most fitters do not take extra meaurements for bunions... he measured my width there, but also before the bump and after the bump, so the maker will be better able to accomodate the size of it.

It appears that I will have to have fully custom boots, because there is no way to manipulate the standard boot lasts enough to accommodate my foot oddities (primarily the left one), and my feet are not the same size. I found out that my split width C/A is actually a B boot with the toe box manipulated, and that B width Jackson boots actually have A heels (good information for stock skate shoppers to have).

His measurements are a lot roomier than the ones I tried doing on myself. I was thinking I would be going up half a size, but for my left foot, he has me up a full length size (from 5.5 to 6.5). I'm so used to super tight boots that skating in bigger ones might be weird (my toes touch the tops of the skates, but they aren't crunched).

He is going to send my info to Jackson to see what they can do for me, so then he can tell me what the cost would be for them (he guessed around $900+). The most I've spent on just boots was around $600, so I'm kind of nervous about spending so much money. I had better stop goofing around and making excuses (I think my skating will improve with the new boots and with a blade model change).

I asked if I will have to buy bigger blades, and he told me not to worry about the blades yet. I'm not sure where the blade money will come from... I might have to try to pick up some extra rink guard hours or something (the money targeted for the boots is payment I'm expecting from Aflac... what better way to spend unexpected funds from an injury than to buy new skates to get injured again?).

The overall experience of such a detail-oriented fitting felt re-assuring to me. I like the idea of being able to focus on my skating rather than on how my skates feel on my feet.

 

[Debbie S]

Good luck with the new skates! Mike is a great fitter, very knowledgeable.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

If you need to, you may be able to buy the blades used but with a lot of life left in them, from someone who had to change blades due to size or etc.

 

[treesprite]

If you need to, you may be able to buy the blades used but with a lot of life left in them, from someone who had to change blades due to size or etc.

I haunt eBay all the time, so I've been haunting skate stuff lately.

Mike had said, before the fitting, that I would still use 9.25 if I had to go up to a 6. Problem is that while his fitting indicates a 6 for the right foot, it indicates a 6.5 for the left foot. Since I am definitely not buying 2 pairs of blades, I wonder which is worse, a blade on the short side or a blade on the long side.

I forgot until this morning that I have a pair of never-used Graf Lausanne blades in a box somewhere. I would like to know what people think of them who have used them. They have 8 foot rockers, but maybe I should consider trying them out. I wish I had remembered having them before going to Waldorf. I could mount them on some old boots to try them out, but it would have to be with a sharpening on the equipment where I work.

 

[Doubletoe]

My left foot is 1/4 size longer than my right foot and I have custom boots. The instructions given to the boot maker said to make the boots fit a 9-1/2" blade. So I'm guessing that is what your boot maker may do as well, i.e., adjust the length of the sole to fit the desired blade size while giving you enough material in the upper to let your toes wiggle.

 

[treesprite]

Thank you for that information! It didn't occur to me that they could do such a thing.

 

[twizzletoes76]

It's pretty typical to have left foot about half size bigger than right foot. Person who posted above is correct, the boot maker can make the soles to go with the blades you have. 9 1/4 blades sound about right if you are wearing a 6 or 6.5 boot. (Note: I would never recommend two different blade sizes to anyone unless some really unusual differences in foot sizes.) But I would wonder about that jump in boot size from 5.5 to 6.5?

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

She might jump that much if its a different brand of boot. treesprite, were you in Jacksons before, or something else?

 

[treesprite]

Jacksons for last, current, and soon-to-own pair. I have always worn my skates really tight, but I had to take the insoles out of my current ones (my last pair were the same as what I'm using now, and I did have the insoles in those). The insoles alone account for about 1/4 of a size difference. Also, I gained a bunch of weight which could account for a change in shoe size. I imagine if I pulled straight the big toe which is a bit sideways because of bunion, that would also add a hair of length to my foot.

All that said, we finally heard from Jackson a couple day, and I put a deposit on the boots! The length will be basically a 6.5 for both feet, with a EE width for the left, but a right foot width of (I think he said) a C. The toe box will be made more square, and the boots will be made to accommodate my bunions.

Apparently there is no model designation once a person goes custom. I started out with the notion of getting Elite with the 85 firmness (my Elite Plus are 85), but for stock boots the Elite with 85 is a little higher priced than with 75, so I was going to get 75 instead to cut cost. Then when I talked to the skate guy, he said once a person is getting customs, they can have whatever they want without an extra charge, so I am getting 85 firmness.

I don't understand why Supreme (the stock boot) are a hundred dollars more than Elite, when there is barely any difference besides being able to go up to a 95 firmness and the color of the hooks (Elite has gold and Supreme has white). Supreme can be had with a choice of 85 or 95 firmness, which overlaps with Elite giving the option for either 75 or 85 firmness. Why would someone pay an extra 100 bucks to get an 85 firmness for Supreme, when they can just get the Elites with 85 firmness for about a third of that?

I got off the phone with skate guy, then realized that I could also have whatever hook color I wanted instead of getting the gold hooks of Elite, so I called him right back to make sure they give me white hooks.

It is going to take 8 weeks for production, then the boots have to be shipped first to a NY warehouse, then to skate guy in MD adding however long that takes. I am too excited to have to wait so long... the wait is discouraging me. The only good thing about it, is that I have a little longer to try to wrangle up the green to pay for blades.

I almost feel like not skating until I get the new skates. That brings up another thread topic, so maybe I will post another thread.

 

[treesprite]

I. Can't. Wait. To. Get. My NEW SKATES!!!

How can I make the next 2 months go faster?

 

[treesprite]

My boots are in! YAY!
He has no blades my size in stock, so those have to be ordered. I am very limited in what I can spend, and want 7 ft rockers with 440 steel, so it will probably be either Coronation Ace Revolution or Eclipse Aurora. The Eclipse blades are cheaper, but heavier. The weight is a concern because these boots are going to weigh more than the current ones (though being a light weight boot model, maybe the boot-only weight balances out ), and I am used to a lighter blade since I am using Matrix blades.

I'm not sure how long blade ordering will take. Hopefully not too long. The email I got about the boots coming in is the only thing taking my mind off of my 17yo cat dying yesterday, after I had to witness him seizing/convulsing for over an hour and a half (only thing that stopped it was euthanasia at emergency vet hospital).

 

[overedge]

((@treesprite)) so sorry to hear about your cat. That's really rough that you had to see him suffer.

 

[treesprite]

Thank you.

 

[treesprite]

After several emails today about blades, Mike will be ordering Eclipse Aurora for me. I wanted a 7 ft rocker and 440 steel in an intermediate blade, and am on a tight budget, which narrowed me down to those. I wish they were lighter weight, but better to have a little more weight than drive to Waldorf twice as much for sharpening.

 

[The Accordion]

I am so very sorry to read about your cat. That is such a difficult day. And it makes it difficult to think about all the beautiful time together, but just remember that those times as they far outweigh the difficult end.

 

[treesprite]

Thank you.

It was awful witnessing that status seizure, but I know he was unconscious, so I don't think he was suffering. He would have suffered afterward if he had ever come out of it alive, so under the circumstances and him being 17 and already totally blind, I think I made the right decision. The night before, I had momentarily thought he was dead, because I had to physically shake him to wake him up, his breathing was extra still, and he felt a little cooler than usual. Given that event, I think he was on his way out before he had the seizure.

Back to skates....
I have an appointment for pickup and mounting on Sept 9th. There is a session at the time I will be there, so I will be able to do an initial mounting test. It is going to be hard to know if the mount is correct though, without being able to do stuff on the skates the first time I'm in them. I don't want to drive back and forth that far several times just for blade adjustments.

Very excited about the skates. I can hardly contain myself!

 

[Aceon6]

@treesprite There should be some moves that will tell you about the mount straight off. Things like two foot glide then one foot on a shallow to steeper edge, both sides forward and back. Watch for unexpected direction from a push. How quickly do you find the sweet spot? Are you too far forward or back? Is the transition from forward to back smooth? The simplest moves may tell you more than the complex ones.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

I have an appointment for pickup and mounting on Sept 9th. There is a session at the time I will be there, so I will be able to do an initial mounting test. It is going to be hard to know if the mount is correct though, without being able to do stuff on the skates the first time I'm in them. I don't want to drive back and forth that far several times just for blade adjustments.

Not sure who is doing your mounting, but every tech I've had does a temp mount, and makes me walk off-ice on rubber mats to assess, then readjusts as needed until I'm wobble-free. For me, this works out very well and I've yet to encounter any mounting issues.

 

[treesprite]

This guy was an Olympic skate tech and people drive from all over the place to see him, so I'm pretty sure he will do a good job. I'm hoping I don't have to go back multiple times. If it weren't for the change in size and the different type of material on the sole, I would just mount them myself.

 

[treesprite]

Only 3 more days!

I keep thinking it will be pointless to do an on-ice lesson in these old skates Friday, because the new ones, with a change in the blades (rocker size/profiles), are going to be so different.

Does anyone have suggestions for my last lesson in the old skates, maybe things that will help me transition to the new ones before I get them? It is only a 15-minute lesson (I plan to increase my lesson time after I'm adjusted to the new skates). Maybe we could just use the time to talk about goals and stuff. I have a cold right now, and if it isn't gone by then, I might not want to skate anyway (lesson was supposed to be today, but her schedule change gave me an opportunity to postpone to Friday, rather than see her at a different time today).

 

[LilJen]

@treesprite There should be some moves that will tell you about the mount straight off. Things like two foot glide then one foot on a shallow to steeper edge, both sides forward and back. Watch for unexpected direction from a push. How quickly do you find the sweet spot? Are you too far forward or back? Is the transition from forward to back smooth? The simplest moves may tell you more than the complex ones.

Right, and make sure each foot is well balanced left/right. I have gradually pronated more on the left so I needed an adjustment because alllllllll the pressure was landing on one part of my foot and I couldn't sustain an outside edge.

So very sorry about your kitty. That must have been terrifying and terrible for you.

 

[bladesofgorey]

Only 3 more days!

Does anyone have suggestions for my last lesson in the old skates, maybe things that will help me transition to the new ones before I get them? It is only a 15-minute lesson .

My suggestion is to maybe ask your coach to show you some drills (like rotational position drill, balance drills, things at the boards, walk-throughs) that you can add to your usual practice routine. That way the lesson is spent learning some new applicable skills that you can practice once you get used to your new skates as well as while you are breaking them in.

 

[treesprite]

I guess she realized last night that I had called in sick (from working at the rink), so she sent me a text message and said we could skip the lesson if I wasn't feeling well. I skipped skating today and ended up staying in bed until 2:00pm. I have to work at the rink from 4 to 7, but am hoping there are two other guards scheduled, so that I won't have to go out in the cold to guard on the ice when I'm not totally up to it. Hopefully, the next time on the ice will be with new skates, since I'm getting them tomorrow.

 

[treesprite]

Got the skates today. YAY!

My initial reaction to putting them on my feet, was that they may be too big in length, and that I can wiggle my toes more than I think should be possible. I usually wear skates very snug, which, for my messed up right ankle/foot, makes me feel secure, so having my toe not right against the front, and being able to wiggle toes, is a bit disconcerting to me. Skate guy thinks I'm just used to having skates that are too small (I said I thought that was "probably a part of it", and he said, "I think it's more like 90% of it".) The other part of the issue I attribute to me needing to figure how how to lace them in an effective way, because lacing them the way I do my old skates did not work at all. I had them too tight when I went around the ice with him watching to check the blade mounting, so he stopped me to get off and loosen them, pointing out to me that I couldn't bend in them with them so tight. He made a couple of flat things that I can put under the toes of the insoles, if that helps me feel more secure.

After I left the place, I drove the 1.5 hrs back home, but went straight to my rink so I could skate in them during the public session. Skated just over an hour, getting off the ice a few times to take off skates, replace, adjust the way I tied them. I got a little better with the lacing, but I am going to have to use a hook, because my fingers are very sore now.

I can skate without hitting my toepicks now. Toepicks on 7ft rocker blades are higher off the ground, and I never got used to the flatter 8ft rocker toepick position. Turning is smoother, though I was only doing 2 foot turns without the wall, and regular 3 turns by the wall because I need to adjust my balance. Clockwise backward crossovers caused pressure on a spot on my left heel which was painful. Can't do counter clockwise ones in these yet, so I don't know if the heel thing is on both sides.

The one issue that definitely needs fixing is that the edge of the tongue of the left boot, right next to where it attaches to boot, has a kind of harsh edge which presses into the top of my bunion in a rather painful way. I had actually trimmed the tongue there in my old skates, so I'm not surprised about this problem. I don't want to go a whole week like that, so hopefully, I will be able to reach skate guy tomorrow and get his advice for trimming it myself (he is only there 3 days a week).

I'm debating whether to go to the noon public tomorrow to have more time to get used to these, even though the rink will probably be a bit crowded. I want to get used to them as soon as I can.

 

[treesprite]

Oh, Jackson did not use the black, lightweight sole bottom on my boots, due to the extra width. I'm assuming they get those bottom pieces pre-fab for standard width boots, and don't just cut out pieces to match Hobbit boots.

 

[treesprite]

I have skated every single day in these skates since I got them Saturday, which is sufficient time time to determine that they are, without any doubt, too big. The instep and around the back of the ankle/achilles area are too big.

The main reason I wanted to get full customs rather than just ask for drastically different split width, is that just a split width would have made the instep too wide, even with a very narrow heel. I think instead of following the measurements as they should for a full custom boot, the manufacturer just took a wide toe and a narrow heel, then drew a straight line between the two as they would if they didn't have the custom measurements for that part of the boot. If that is the case, then these are not the full custom boots for which I paid all that money.

I am going back to skate guy tomorrow, but I sent him another e-mail about sending them back, because there is no way they can be fixed with simple adjustments.

I love the Eclipse Aurora blades so far, but can't do much on them yet. I was going to have one moved a bit, but what is the point when the boots are too big?

If he sends the boots back, I will ask if these blades can go on my old boots until the new ones come back. It may not be possible, because the other boots are a full size smaller.

The more I skate in these boots though, the grumpier I feel. I hope tomorrow brings some good resolution.

 

[treesprite]

Skate guy e-mailed me back and changed my appointment to Sunday, so he will have more time to examine the boots. He said we can sent them back to Jackson for re-lasting if needed. He said that if the boots go back, he can put the blades on my old boots if they will fit (looking at the blades and boots tonight, I think they might be just a hair over the edge of the ends of the old boots, but hopefully that is a close enough fit).

When I got home tonight, I put my old boot on my feet. The only thing the new ones have over them is that the new ones don't squish against my toes and bunion; the old ones are better in ever other regard (the heel slips, but not as much as in the new boots). I don't understand why a supposedly custom made boot fits more poorly than a pair that is simply a split width. How can a skate with a AA heel be bigger than a skate with an A heel? I wish I knew what Jackson needs to be told to get them to make the instep of the boot correctly instead of just having a straight line.

I am wondering if boot makers typically give a standard size designation to full custom boots, the way Jackson did with mine. Aside from the obvious non-fit of the insteps, the giving of the size designation is part of the reason I think they just pieced together parts of standard boot lasts of different sizes.

Sorry I keep going on and on, but I'm really disturbed by this situation. I don't blame the fitter at all, because he is an absolute pro (has been an Olympics skate tech). I think Jackson folks are lazy and careless and inconsistent.

 

[treesprite]

He spent about 45 minutes today checking the boots and how they don't fit. He re-measured my feet and got the same numbers as he did the first time. He said there should have been a lot more padding around the achilles and ankle, and showed me a display boot. Also, there is a manufacturing defect around the heels, where the other covering is separating from the material underneath.

Then he spent another 10 minutes putting the new blades on the old boots. They hang over the back, but it will be better than using the other blades while the boots are being re-made.

Hopefully it won't take a couple months to get them back. When it is, I hope they get it right this time.

 

[gkelly]

Good luck

 

[Rukia]

Oh wow, this is crazy. I can say though that my custom Harlicks have no size designation on them at all. They just say custom. Hope you can get some skates that fit correctly!