Should SP/SD scores carry over?

[Coco]

At the Olympics, the winner of the free skate did not win the Olympic Gold Medal in three of four disciplines.

This is a first in recent memory, although it would have been a lot less likely, if not impossible, for the FS/FD winner to lose under 6.0.

Is this a good thing? How do you think this is perceived by casual fans?

To rephrase the question...

Should the SP/SD just be a qualifier, with all the qualifiers starting from zero?

Or should SP/SD points be added to the final result?

 

[tony]

If the SP results didn't count, then skaters with strong PCS and/or the ability to rotate difficult jumps would just throw them in and could technically wipe out on everything in the SP and still get to the LP. Pointless.

I like that the SP still has that do or die feeling.

 

[Coco]

You're assuming a lot...

It's anti-climatic to explain to casual fans that yes, they were the best tonight, but they don't get a medal because they fell twice yesterday or ...yes, he fell twice today, but he wins because he had a huge lead.

 

[tony]

You're assuming a lot...

It's anti-climatic to explain to casual fans that yes, they were the best tonight, but they don't get a medal because they fell twice yesterday or ...yes, he fell twice today, but he wins because he had a huge lead.

I'm giving a situation that could occur. You asked.

Many sports have qualifying scores that carry over to the next round(s). Sometimes a skater who finished 4th in the short program won the long (maybe even by a large margin over the 2nd place LP finisher) but still lost overall because of that short program.

It's the most consistent skater throughout the competition. The casual viewer should be able to gather that one bad day could take them out of contention. This is the same as one bad apparatus taking a gymnast out of contention, or one bad dive taking a diver out of contention.

 

[GREGORY]

I think the CoP system should only serves to do the ranking in each segment of the competition.
As before, for SP or SD, the 1st skater or team will mark 0,5 pt, the second 1, the third 1,5...
For the FS or FP the 1 st will have 1 pt, the second 2 pt .....
At the end, points are added :

Podium at the olys with this system :

Pairs :
1- SAVCHENKO / MASSOT : 2+1 =3
2- DUHAMEL / RADFORD : 1,5 +2 = 3,5
3- SUI / HAN : 0,5+3=3,5

Men :
1 HANYU : 0,5+2 = 2,5
2 UNO : 1,5+ 3 = 4,5

3 FERNANDEZ : 1+ 4 = 5​

Dance :
1- PAPADAKIS / CIZERON : 1+1 =2
2- VIRTUE / MOIR :0,5+2 =2,5​

3- SHIBUTANI / SHIBUTANI : 2+3 =5

Ladies :

1- MEDVEDEVA : 1+1 = 2​

2- ZAGITOVA : 0,5 + 2 =2,5
3- OSMOND : 1,5+3 =4,5

 

[tony]

I think the CoP system should only serves to do the ranking in each segment of the competition.
As before, for SP or SD, the 1st skater or team will mark 0,5 pt, the second 1, the third 1,5...
For the FS or FP the 1 st will have 1 pt, the second 2 pt .....

So you're turning it back into factored placements and 6.0, just with a whole lot of extra numbers. I don't like this idea because it means Skater A scores 100 points in the SP over Skater B, who gets 80 points. Then in the LP, Skater A gets 199 points and Skater B gets 199.01. You really think skater B should be the winner? I like IJS because of the cumulative totals and the ability to see big movement between programs.

I'm guessing you're a P/C fan

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Out of all the things that have to be explained to casual fans, adding up the actual scores from two skates to get a total is by far the easiest to understand.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Out of all the things that have to be explained to casual fans, adding up the actual scores from two skates to get a total is by far the easiest to understand.

LOL, so very true. Hahahaha.

 

[Twilight1]

Seems ridiculous to just favor one program and make the other one pointless. The winner should be who did the best overall, not who had one good night.

Seems more a sour grapes question IMVHO.

 

[RoseRed]

Especially in ice dance, this would make no sense. The SD requires somewhat different skills than the FD, with the required rhythms, so throwing out the scores would be incredibly dumb. And people aren't stupid. They can understand adding to scores together. It's not a complicated concept. In Pentathalon or heptathlon/decathalon, they scores from each event get added together. It's not whoever wins the last one. People understand that.

And besides, looking at these Olympics, with the men, you'd have Nathan win even though he completely bombed the SP? That would be a bad outcome. That's not good for the sport. How does he deserve it over Hanyu, given those performances? And people are actually capable of understanding that he did really bad yesterday, so he's not going to be able to win.

 

[ballettmaus]

You're assuming a lot...

It's anti-climatic to explain to casual fans that yes, they were the best tonight, but they don't get a medal because they fell twice yesterday or ...yes, he fell twice today, but he wins because he had a huge lead.

It's the same in giant slalom, slalom, combined, luge, skeleton and bobsleigh (from the top of my head). The competition consists of more than one part. If you make a huge mistake in one part, you can't win the overall competition. Even a casual fan should be able to understand that. I really don't see where the problem is.

 

[Seerek]

Nathan Chen would have likely still finished 5th or 6th overall if we had reverted back to factored placements/6.0.

That being said, I don't think he would have been ranked 1st in the free skate under 6.0.

 

[Vash01]

I don't really want to go back to the 6.0 system with factored placements. I just want an improved IJS.

So my answer is the SP/SD scores should count, as they are.

 

[Judy]

Then they might as well just skate one program which wouldn’t be exciting at all.

 

[Skittl1321]

If the short program results don't count and it was only a qualifier, it should DRASTICALLY reduce the field for the finals. Like only 8 skaters. Otherwise, what would be the point?

Keep the short program as is.

 

[Vash01]

I remember that in the 6.0 system all a skater had to do was make the top 3 in the SP and win the gold by simply winning the LP. I thought it was an awful system. There could be a huge difference in the performances of 1 and 3, but the strong performance of number one didn't even count.

Examples: S&P had a major mistake in their SP at the 2001 worlds. It was even debatable that they deserved to be third. B&S had a great SP performance but S&P won the championship just by winning the free.

Sarah Hughes at the 2002 Oly is another example of this kind.

A great skate in the SP must be rewarded. A mere qualifier doesn't do justice to the better performers.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Yes .

 

[MAXSwagg]

I had to laugh at Scott Hamilton making a big deal about Nathan winning the FS when he himself failed to win the BOTH the SP and FS. He won on figures and a serious argument could be mad that Orser was robbed. Big time.

Across all disciplines, the overall highest quality skaters won. V/M and Hanyu gave performances for the ages in that segment, and Hanyu only had two minor errors. Sui/Han had great SP, but overall made a more significant error compared to Aliona.

What needs to happen is a larger distinction between the SP and LP. SP needs to go back to being more of a technical program, and frankly I would not mind if it had specifically designated elements that rotate each year, with specific required steps/combinations of steps in step sequences like short dance, and let the FS be less restrictive.

 

[Coco]

I totally agree with you about the need for a greater distinction between the SP and LP.

Would love to see:

*one of the required non-axel jumps be an edge jump
*levels on the steps into the solo triple
*no variation of basic position on either the flying spin or the spin in one position, 8 revs minimum (treat the base value like a choreographic element)

 

[manhn]

The SD takes up too much of the total score, probably. Maybe the same for pairs. But I think the biggest problem for pairs is the small size of each group. That 5th ranked or 9th ranked team in the short get really shortsighted for not being in the next group for the free.