Samokhvalov's interview with Gleikhengauz

[mjb52]

Also he didn’t seem grumpy to me at all.

Maybe our thresholds for grumpiness are different

 

[hanca]

Kostornaya isn't the first and won't be the last major talent who hates the repetition needed at the highest/most elite level. Sometimes coaches will try to make the hard work fun or challenging. I don't know what he means by "The question is how to help her with the routine so she could work to the top of her ability every day.", ie, whether that's trying to plan a way to mix it up in training to keep her interest, trying to convince her she needs to take her medicine, or what.

What he said sounds reasonable to me. It's not like he disclosed that she lets her personal life get in the way, like Mishin said about a period in Tuktamysheva's life.

Mishin said much worse about Nugumanova, when he stopped coaching her.
And it is nowhere near as bad as what Pluschenko said about Sakhanovich and about Tarakanova. The only difference is that Pluschenko said that after he stopped coaching them, whereas Gleikengaus says this while he is still coaching Kostornaya.

 

[kwanfan1818]

But plenty of coaches have talked about flaws their current skaters have.

I remember watching the video on Chan's training when he was in Colorado Springs with Christy Krall: she had every single minute of his life pre-planned. (It sounded like the micro-managed schedule Twyla Tharp's mother had for her as a child, one documented in Tharp's book "Push Comes to Shove;" reading it made me want to gasp for air.) After a couple of years, he pushed against that and wanted more control over his life. The good news is that, realistically, the road for Kostornaya is, at most, a year long, before she reassesses. (Or they do.) So if they need to come up with a schedule that says 1 hour on ice doing two run-throughs, 1 hour doing Pilates, 30 minutes of off-ice jump practice, etc., just to keep her moving and shifting her attention, it's not something she'd necessarily do for years. Russian Nationals is less than two months away.

 

[SLIVER]

He sounds like such a d*ckhead, the success has definitely gone to his head.

 

[love_skate2011]

He sounds like such a d*ckhead, the success has definitely gone to his head.

sometimes fail skaters reach their dreams and frustrations on others
coaching is a good example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-NHyA4HcKE

 

[rfisher]

I'm surprised they've kept her as a student. Apparently, none of the other Russian coaches would have her after she left Plushenko. All of them have kicked out skaters who wouldn't train. I guess, the Federation interceded like they did on Medvedeva's behalf to get her back to Eteri and company.

 

[love_skate2011]

I'm surprised they've kept her as a student. Apparently, none of the other Russian coaches would have her after she left Plushenko. All of them have kicked out skaters who wouldn't train. I guess, the Federation interceded like they did on Medvedeva's behalf to get her back to Eteri and company.

what was the deal ?

Konspiracy* inserts Diana Davis

 

[Karen-W]

what was the deal ?

Konspiracy* inserts Diana Davis

Give it a rest, will you? Davis/Smolkin are talented enough to rise on their own.

 

[Coco]

I'm surprised they've kept her as a student. Apparently, none of the other Russian coaches would have her after she left Plushenko. All of them have kicked out skaters who wouldn't train. I guess, the Federation interceded like they did on Medvedeva's behalf to get her back to Eteri and company.

Or it's not as bad as he says but they are trying to 'motivate' her.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Or it's not as bad as he says but they are trying to 'motivate' her.

Or ETut just needs to only accept this situation for six more weeks, she did her job to RF, and anyway now it's about the Olympic dance team. If Alyona gave half a breath of FIGHT, the doors are open. Eteri loves hard workers. But nope, it seems, and 'they' are trying to say NOT OUR FAULT. I understand TT.

 

[Wyliefan]

Or it's not as bad as he says but they are trying to 'motivate' her.

Well, they motivated her to take down that Instagram post about being grateful to them ...

 

[hanca]

The good news is that, realistically, the road for Kostornaya is, at most, a year long, before she reassesses. (Or they do.) So if they need to come up with a schedule that says 1 hour on ice doing two run-throughs, 1 hour doing Pilates, 30 minutes of off-ice jump practice, etc., just to keep her moving and shifting her attention, it's not something she'd necessarily do for years. Russian Nationals is less than two months away.

I think that’s even more worrying. I know it is extremely hard to keep yourself motivated long term, but when the season started, she knew it would be only for six months till Olympics, so that’s not forever. And yet she couldn’t make herself to be in a decent form at the end of October, 7 weeks before the nationals and 3.5 months before the Olympics.

 

[VGThuy]

The fact that she deleted her post of gratitude that Gleikhengauz didn't appreciate in the first place and used as a way to direct more criticism towards her says it all.

 

[rfisher]

The fact that she deleted her post of gratitude that Gleikhengauz didn't appreciate in the first place and used as a way to direct more criticism towards her says it all.

Or that the original post was a manipulative act that wasn't appreciated by those she was attempting to manipulate. I have students who try that tactic all the time.

 

[RoseRed]

Or that the original post was a manipulative act that wasn't appreciated by those she was attempting to manipulate. I have students who try that tactic all the time.

I don't think that's an appropriate suggestion to make. Even if she's struggling with her work ethic and motivation and it affects her training, none of that means she can't be grateful to her coaches. Daniil used the post to call her out in an interview, so regardless of whether you think he was justified or not, it's not strange for her to take it down. I don't know why you'd try to read something malicious on her part into that.

 

[Vash01]

I don't think Daniil is the first coach to publicly criticize his student. Tamara Moskvina had publicly criticized her pair Yulia Obertas and Sergei Slavnov for not working hard. Eventually they left her and the FS competitions. May be some skaters (people) are not cut out for that kind of hard work, no matter how talented they are and how much they want to be successful.

 

[canbelto]

Or that the original post was a manipulative act that wasn't appreciated by those she was attempting to manipulate. I have students who try that tactic all the time.

And I say this as an experienced teacher of many years: even if your students are manipulative, you as the adult in the room and the role model have a duty to rise above it. Kids will act out because they're kids. It's what they;re wired to do. It's always a horrible look when a grown adult attacks a child. Always.

 

[tony]

And I say this as an experienced teacher of many years: even if your students are manipulative, you as the adult in the room and the role model have a duty to rise above it. Kids will act out because they're kids. It's what they;re wired to do. It's always a horrible look when a grown adult attacks a child. Always.

Just a note here- Kostornaia is 18 years old. When do we stop calling her a kid and transition her into adulthood? It’s fascinating to me how so many people want to shelter figure skaters but then hold 17 and 18 year olds fully responsible for their actions in many other circumstances.

When Ivett Toth was 18, Julia Sebestyen dumped her from her group as she also said something to the extent of Ivett not having proper work ethic. Manon Perron dumped Joannie Rochette when she was 18 or 19 because she didn’t have a good work ethic going into the 2005 season and skated miserably at a club competition, only for Rochette to return a year later with a different approach. These things happen. Kostornaia must see some good motivation to have gone back to the camp, and maybe this is the push she needs. How should we know?

 

[canbelto]

Just a note here- Kostornaia is 18 years old. When do we stop calling her a kid and transition her into adulthood? It’s fascinating to me how so many people want to shelter figure skaters but then hold 17 and 18 year olds fully responsible for their actions in many other circumstances.

When Ivett Toth was 18, Julia Sebestyen dumped her from her group as she also said something to the extent of Ivett not having proper work ethic. Manon Perron dumped Joannie Rochette when she was 18 or 19 because she didn’t have a good work ethic going into the 2005 season and skated miserably at a club competition, only for Rochette to return a year later with a different approach. These things happen. Kostornaia must see some good motivation to have gone back to the camp, and maybe this is the push she needs. How should we know?

All of my kids are 17/18/19. I teach juniors and seniors. They're kids. They might look and act mature but they're babies and they're immature.

 

[el henry]

I have no idea if Aliona K. sees this as "motivation" or what she wants to do. I haven't watched her skate this year.

But I could not agree more with @canbelto on this and I will take it a step further. Spousal Unit retired after 40 years on the faculty at Local Large Private University. Even when he was a brand new 26 year old prof and his students were 21, the responsibility was all on him to act as the adult. To not badmouth students to third parties. Certainly not the press. If he figured it out in the mid 1970s, surely Daniil G. can figure it out now.

It has nothing to do with the age of the parties and everything to do with their relationship.

And to me these comments have Jackson B. Squat to do with hard work, tough love, and all the other excuses. Daniil G.'s maturity level appears, from this particular comment, to be lower than that of his students.

 

[canbelto]

I'll add something else: to get to the elite level of figure skating, you cannot have a poor work ethic. It doesn't happen. People with poor work ethic cannot go out and land triple axels. Therefore, I'm always suspicious of coaches that trash a skater's work ethic as a reason to break up with said skater. It could be that coach and skater have different work styles. It could be that the coach is not motivating the student effectively. All of this falls on the coach to adjust.

There are times when the skater is not working effectively. Like Chris Bowman's drug abuse struggles. But those are extremely rare.

 

[tony]

All of my kids are 17/18/19. I teach juniors and seniors. They're kids. They might look and act mature but they're babies and they're immature.

An 18 year old is an adult in America and has to be responsible for their decisions, regardless of what you feel for your students. They can't break a law and then say "Oh well my teacher said I'm still a baby..." They can't shirk their work duties and say that they don't know better because they are children. They can't skip college classes and say mommy never told them they had to go. In Russia, it's no different and they certainly aren't as coddled as what some of FSU seems to think.

Tutberidze & co. could say something completely normal and people would still rip it to shreds, so of course I found Daniil's interview interesting. I'm not triggered by what seems to be an honest critique, and I think the line about the Instagram post was more to say 'Yeah, that's nice and all, but what would be better is to actually show it in the skating and put in the work'. Regardless of what happened in the past, Trusova and Kostornaia both found their ways back to them this year and if things were as constantly miserable as people try to suggest, it wouldn't have happened.

I'll add something else: to get to the elite level of figure skating, you cannot have a poor work ethic. It doesn't happen. People with poor work ethic cannot go out and land triple axels. Therefore, I'm always suspicious of coaches that trash a skater's work ethic as a reason to break up with said skater. It could be that coach and skater have different work styles. It could be that the coach is not motivating the student effectively. All of this falls on the coach to adjust.

With all due respect, give me a break. You know that people can easily fluctuate in their motivation levels throughout a period of time. You think all of your students stay as interested in the subject matter throughout a year as they are in the first few weeks? Even if you're teacher of the year, you know that some people lose interest and they do it real quick. Top-level skaters have gotten lazy and still had all the talent in the world. Christopher Bowman used to go on benders for days at a time and show up to a competition and somehow put it together more or less- he alone disproves whatever point you're trying to make. Tim Goebel was fired by Frank Carroll. Elena Sokolova was in the Grand Prix in fall 2003, just 6 or so months after a run at winning Worlds, in terrible shape and was ripped to shreds by the internet and by Dick Button. Motivation is always shifting.

ETA- your Bowman line was edited in after I started replying to you, so at least we agree there.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I have no idea if Aliona K. sees this as "motivation" or what she wants to do. I haven't watched her skate this year.

But I could not agree more with @canbelto on this and I will take it a step further. Spousal Unit retired after 40 years on the faculty at Local Large Private University. Even when he was a brand new 26 year old prof and his students were 21, the responsibility was all on him to act as the adult. To not badmouth students to third parties. Certainly not the press. If he figured it out in the mid 1970s, surely Daniil G. can figure it out now.

It has nothing to do with the age of the parties and everything to do with their relationship.

And to me these comments have Jackson B. Squat to do with hard work, tough love, and all the other excuses. Daniil G.'s maturity level appears, from this particular comment, to be lower than that of his students.

Absolutely. There are major power dynamics at play between teachers/coaches and pupils. I've taught workshops in Juvenile detention centers with students as old as 18 in the classes through a University program, and regardless of how many buttons those young people pushed it was up to me to be an adult in every situation and not lash back. General training for all faculty outlined this, even.

 

[BittyBug]

@canbelto I disagree with your assessment and will cite two examples: Christopher Bowman and Nicole Bobeck, two famously talented skaters who achieved quite a bit of success, but fell short of their potential due to poor training habits.

ETA: I also posted this before seeing your edit about Bowman, but my point remains.

 

[tony]

@canbelto I disagree with your assessment and will cite two examples: Christopher Bowman and Nicole Bobeck, two famously talented skaters who achieved quite a bit of success, but fell short of their potential due to poor training habits.

Bobek is another great example. Even Butyrskaya was notorious around 1995-1996 for not always showing up to practices, not always attending all the competition practices, and somehow putting it together for the most part when it mattered. Carruthers & co. about fell out of their chairs at the 1995 Nations Cup when Maria skated a great competition and even gave Michelle a run for her money after missing many of the practices. And that also was the season she was playing with and landing the 3A in training. She moved to Tchaikovsaya at the end of the next season and we all know what happened to her career from that point, as Elena wasn't going to put up with half-assed effort.

If Daniil sees that Alena is capable of more (which he says we can all see- and I don't disagree) and isn't pushing herself hard enough right now, he's not like the list of other examples where the coach actually dumps the skater and then says that they didn't work hard enough. I know I'm not going to win with the majority of the FSU crowd that has already made up their minds a long time ago about the supposed torture the skaters in Team Tutberidze are going through, but they still have to be doing something right in the end.

 

[SpeedySucks]

Regardless of what happened in the past, Trusova and Kostornaia both found their ways back to them this year and if things were as constantly miserable as people try to suggest, it wouldn't have happened.

Bullshit. Would you say the same about gymnasts who left and then returned to the Karolyis in the 80s and early-90s? Athletes (and people in general) leave and then return to abusive situations all the time, especially when one coach has all of the political power to make or break their career.

 

[bladesofgorey]

sure, if "by doing something right" means winning all the medals. I just have a different definition of doing something right when it comes to vulnerable human beings. Winning is not everything.

 

[el henry]

They can't break a law and then say "Oh well my teacher said I'm still a baby..." They can't shirk their work duties and say that they don't know better because they are children. They can't skip college classes and say mommy never told them they had to go. In Russia, it's no different and they certainly aren't as coddled as what some of FSU seems to think.....
.Tutberidze & co. could say something completely normal and people would still rip it to shreds, so of course I found Daniil's interview interesting. I'm not triggered by what seems to be an honest critique, and I think the line about the Instagram post was more to say 'Yeah, that's nice and all, but what would be better is to actually show it in the skating and put in the work'. Regardless of what happened in the past, Trusova and Kostornaia both found their ways back to them this year and if things were as constantly miserable as people try to suggest, it wouldn't have happened.

.....

I couldn't even identify most of Eteri's younger skaters, so I hardly consider myself triggered.

I don't give two hoots about the skaters in this scenario. I am concerned about the coaches, because coaches and professors are held to higher standards and should be expected to show maturity and not be triggered by their students.

To use your example, if Spousal Unit had said to the local paper "Joe Student said his mommy told him he could skip classes" and "Joe Student has no work ethic", he would have been one immature, poor excuse for a professor. Zip to do with how he deals with Joe Student in the classroom or in private.

Luckily Spousal Unit was mature, even at 26, and a very good professor and never did any of that. That's the standard to aspire to. It's not that hard.

 

[tony]

Bullshit. Would you say the same about gymnasts who left and then returned to the Karolyis in the 80s and early-90s? Athletes (and people in general) leave and then return to abusive situations all the time, especially when one coach has all of the political power to make or break their career.

The difference here is there is zero evidence of what many storytellers here seem to be claiming- and yes, there are posters here who have completely made up scenarios to fit their 'Tutberidze is the worst' narratives. Maybe things will come out 10 or 20 years from now- who knows? But for now don't 'bullshit' unless you want to provide all the evidence for what must be happening.

You know, it's perfectly logical to think that these skaters all want to be in environments where they really strive to push harder and that there is nothing dangerous happening. I gave the Rochette example above where Manon Perron fired her- for lack of work ethic. Are you going to throw out the possibility of Perron doing some shifty stuff behind the scenes but Rochette still returning to her a year later anyways? Nah, didn't think so.

 

[SpeedySucks]

The difference here is there is zero evidence of what many storytellers here seem to be claiming- and yes, there are posters here who have completely made up scenarios to fit their 'Tutberidze is the worst' narratives. Maybe things will come out 10 or 20 years from now- who knows? But for now don't 'bullshit' unless you want to provide all the evidence for what must be happening.

You know, it's perfectly logical to think that these skaters all want to be in environments where they really strive to push harder. I gave the Rochette example above where Manon Perron fired her- for lack of work ethic. Are you going to throw out the possibility of Perron doing some shifty stuff behind the scenes but Rochette still returning to her anyways? Nah, didn't think so.

Have multiple skaters left Perron and then returned? Nah, didn’t think so.