Russian Ladies news & discussion

[mjb52]

I wonder if part of it is also the idea that there is a benefit to her reputation in terms of landing a quad in competition. That intangible stuff does matter a little. And then she can integrate the second triple axel back in.

 

[Tobbe]

I watched in 0.25 speed. 3.25 revolutions in the air for Anna's quad lutz. More than 200 degrees pre-rotation.
GOE is related with pre-rotation though. Poor take off means less GOE. Plus Anna's jumps have small height and distance which means she should not get more +3 GOE. She is often receives +5. Less GOE also for her wrong edges.

You do realize Nadya that your constant scrutiny of Anna's jumps on YT probably makes up for half the views she gets on her videos?

 

[tony]

I think she clearly understands that this layout with a quad instead of one of the triple axels won’t bring her a lot in terms of BV, and she knows her form won’t be good enough by the end of January to land a quad and two triple axels in one program. But it’s also important to start executing quad in completions. And this fake Euros event will be a perfect chance to do so (seems the Worlds team will be most likely determined at Russian Cup Final in the end of February)

Yeah, but if she doesn't come anywhere near the quad then she's losing points on that, throwing away an entire jumping block by not including a typically reliable jump, and then likely completing the rest of the program with the already confusing jump choices. I get that she can experiment until the big Worlds determining event and that she might not be in top shape, but let's be real- she's likely to really slow down at the end of the program regardless of whether she's done 2 triple Axels or if she's done all double jumps to that point. I think it's the footwork that really gets to her, not the jumps.

 

[mjb52]

Good lord. Make it stop.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Anya like Yuna is modest and classy.

I like that none of the EG skaters ever talked negatively about anyone else. They are trained and brought up very well.

Anna just has this regal aristocratic look to her like she could be the princess daughter of Tsar Nicholas or Peter the Great!
Aliona one of yours and my favorites has that too.

Alyona is the only princess. See her new advertisement above.

 

[Scott512]

Alyonka's new advertisement (Sergei Rozanov is a lucky guy to train such a beautiful lady):

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How many endorsements does she have now?

I really hope we see Alona back competing and whatever events are left this season.

Let's see what happens. I sure hope she gets her 3A back by next season.

 

[Scott512]

Alyona is the only princess. See her new advertisement above.

There are more than one but she's definitely one.

And is Aliona completely over covid yet and did she get symptoms? It's so disappointing so many Russian skaters have had their seasons ruined by covid-19.

 

[Scott512]

I wonder if part of it is also the idea that there is a benefit to her reputation in terms of landing a quad in competition. That intangible stuff does matter a little. And then she can integrate the second triple axel back in.

It is true that intangibles do matter and reputation does matter.

 

[Tinami Amori]

It really makes me wonder why? She has indeed poor technique, poor skating skills and pre-rotates excessively. Her jumps do not have height nor distance. Hmmm... I feel bad for all the skaters who have very good technique and textbook technique.

Anna has been winning gold and medals for a long time, 4 years +, from junior to now senior, nationally and internationally. Your comment sounds like "all judges are stupid and i am smart", plus makes me think that you're bitter that another favorite of yours is not doing too well, and not even competing now......

 

[NAOTMAA]

I get that Tuktamysheva wants to take baby steps as far as increasing the difficulty to her program, but I don't quite understand why she thinks she has to take one of the 3A out to do the 4T. She's pretty reliable in terms of actually rotating the 3A both times. Even if she's stepping out of one or whatever, she's getting big points for it.

Throughout her career Liza has never fully taken advantage of her 3A. Her jump layout is always half baked and never fully maximized. She's always leaving points on the table even before she steps in the ice. She's like the poster child of self sabotage and it's likely always to remain a mystery as to why

 

[Tinami Amori]

Throughout her career Liza has never fully taken advantage of her 3A. Her jump layout is always half baked and never fully maximized. She's always leaving points on the table even before she steps in the ice. She's like the poster child of self sabotage and it's likely always to remain a mystery as to why

I thought about that too when i see her skate. My guesses are:

a) recently in an interview she said that skating is not everything in her life, she realizes there is more to life than skating, and that's why she does not take failed results close to heart. That is a good attitude in general, but given today's level of competition in Russia alone, and to add internationally, in Japan, Liza's attitude may not push her that 5% extra to get to the top. She had "enough to win" 6-7 years ago, when the level of ladies singles was lower, but not enough today, yet she is not "jumping out of her skin" to get there.

b) Mishin's training and Liza's understanding of "perfect programme" are very much 2000's and not very current, even with 3A and prospects of a quad. If she wants to medal, she needs to devote her whole life/time to catching up with 2020's, and cut out even the occasional social life and "cookies" she has. 100% discipline is what will get her to the top. Eteri, or even Davydov, could get her there if Liza allows.

 

[Tobbe]

I thought about that too when i see her skate. My guesses are:

a) recently in an interview she said that skating is not everything in her life, she realizes there is more to life than skating, and that's why she does not take failed results close to heart. That is a good attitude in general, but given today's level of competition in Russia alone, and to add internationally, in Japan, Liza's attitude may not push her that 5% extra to get to the top. She had "enough to win" 6-7 years ago, when the level of ladies singles was lower, but not enough today, yet she is not "jumping out of her skin" to get there.

b) Mishin's training and Liza's understanding of "perfect programme" are very much 2000's and not very current, even with 3A and prospects of a quad. If she wants to medal, she needs to devote her whole life/time to catching up with 2020's, and cut out even the occasional social life and "cookies" she has. 100% discipline is what will get her to the top. Eteri, or even Davydov, could get her there if Liza allows.

I love Liza, I really do, she reminds me of my all time favourite skater Maria Buturskaya. But Maria upped her game all the time back in those days, Liza is not really. All this adding a quad and taking out a 3A, or adding a 3A and taking out another triple is not upping her game. I don't see her having any chances for any World Championship spots the way things are going.

But maybe Liza is content with being just outside the top? Doing a few GPs and CSs? Anyway, I hope she won't quit. We need Liza.

 

[tony]

I love Liza, I really do, she reminds me of my all time favourite skater Maria Buturskaya. But Maria upped her game all the time back in those days, Liza is not really. All this adding a quad and taking out a 3A, or adding a 3A and taking out another triple is not upping her game. I don't see her having any chances for any World Championship spots the way things are going.

But maybe Liza is content with being just outside the top? Doing a few GPs and CSs? Anyway, I hope she won't quit. We need Liza.

The interesting thing that often goes unnoticed about Maria is how she really started pushing to increase the technical content after she won Worlds. She came into the 2000 season with a 3/.5/3 sequence planned, even before Slutskaya made her comeback and was landing 3+3s. The very next season, she replaced her easiest, most reliable jump with her least reliable jump in the SP (loop to a flip- something we don't look at as a huge difference these days) and also was attempting a second 3Lz in her long. Even though her jumps were usually haywire by the time 2002 came along, I really respect that she was doing all of this in her late 20s!

 

[Tobbe]

The interesting thing that often goes unnoticed about Maria is how she really started pushing to increase the technical content after she won Worlds. She came into the 2000 season with a 3/.5/3 sequence planned, even before Slutskaya made her comeback and was landing 3+3s. The very next season, she replaced her easiest, most reliable jump with her least reliable jump in the SP (loop to a flip- something we don't look at as a huge difference these days) and also was attempting a second 3Lz in her long. Even though her jumps were usually haywire by the time 2002 came along, I really respect that she was doing all of this in her late 20s!

Yes, she upped her game all the time. And she was older than Liza is now.

And Maria's 3Loops were to die for. One of the best in the business.

 

[Tinami Amori]

But maybe Liza is content with being just outside the top? Doing a few GPs and CSs?

I though about that too..... I don't think she is really content, as the meaning of this word goes in "pure form". I rather suspect she thinks she did better than the judges' marks, and often believes she is judged unfairly, thus content in her mind with her work and blames the "circumstances" (judging and much younger ladies allowed to skate against her). She acknowledges that she her self participated in Russian Nationals since 11/12, and won her world title very young, but still feels uncomfortable competing against the girls of the same age she was when she did it. But she can't complain, she also did it and benefited.

She is also content with herself, because, as she said "skating is not everything", and yet now days winning will take 150% devotion, and Liza would not be able to "have that glass of vino after a tough day at the office". I suspect Liza wishes that "others" approached figure skating like she does, and did not play it like "hunger games".

She does not "knock her self out trying" and wishes that others did not either. Thus she is content, because she thinks others are "unreasonable and crazy doing it".

She often jokes that she is now "ancient" by figure skating standards, and that skating is not everything in life, and that she does not hold a "strict diet and regime" (which in Liza's case means an occasional pastry, alcohol, a night out with friends). So she is where she is.

Aleona Savchenko was "much more ancient" when she decided to become an Olympic Champion with a rather new partner. But Liza Tuktamysheva is no Aleona Savchenko, nor has the willpower and discipline to be like her... if she had the willpower and discipline, that would be another story.

 

[Tobbe]

I though about that too..... I don't think she is really content, as the meaning of this word goes in "pure form". I rather suspect she thinks she did better than the judges' marks, and often believes she is judged unfairly, thus content in her mind with her work and blames the "circumstances" (judging and much younger ladies allowed to skate against her). She acknowledges that she her self participated in Russian Nationals since 11/12, and won her world title very young, but still feels uncomfortable competing against the girls of the same age she was when she did it. But she can't complain, she also did it and benefited.

She is also content with herself, because, as she said "skating is not everything", and yet now days winning will take 150% devotion, and Liza would not be able to "have that glass of vino after a tough day at the office". I suspect Liza wishes that "others" approached figure skating like she does, and did not play it like "hunger games".

She does not "knock her self out trying" and wishes that others did not either. Thus she is content, because she thinks others are "unreasonable and crazy doing it".

She often jokes that she is now "ancient" by figure skating standards, and that skating is not everything in life, and that she does not hold a "strict diet and regime" (which in Liza's case means an occasional pastry, alcohol, a night out with friends). So she is where she is.

Aleona Savchenko was "much more ancient" when she decided to become an Olympic Champion with a rather new partner. But Liza Tuktamysheva is no Aleona Savchenko, nor has the willpower and discipline to be like her... if she had the willpower and discipline, that would be another story.

She has a World title after all. She was the 3rd Russian girl to manage that after Butyrskaya and Slutskaya. It's probably hard to get motivation after that. I suspect though that she wants that Olympic spot. She has missed two Olympics already, and most likely she will miss the next one too, but maybe that is her drive nowadays. And hopefully that drive will keep her pushing even further to the 2026 Olympics!

 

[rfisher]

Nobody is Savchenko except herself. I agree that Liza doesn't have the absolute focused drive to win. Which is fine. Very few athletes do. Of the younger skaters, I'd say Trusova has it the most, followed by Shcherbakova. They will do what they need to do to succeed. There is a price to be paid for that type of focus and the athlete has to decide if the pain is worth the gain. Staying competitive in singles for more than 4 years as a senior is difficult. Constant training, little time for other things, particularly things young people like to do, is extremely difficult and most don't do it. Fans can whine all they want about wanting to watch the "mature" skater, but they'd need to turn their focus to dance and pairs if that's their wish. Singles, OTOH, enjoy them while they skate because injury, burnout and hungry younger skaters with harder elements are facts of the sport.

 

[Tinami Amori]

She has a World title after all. She was the 3rd Russian girl to manage that after Butyrskaya and Slutskaya. It's probably hard to get motivation after that. I suspect though that she wants that Olympic spot. She has missed two Olympics already, and most likely she will miss the next one too, but maybe that is her drive nowadays. And hopefully that drive will keep her pushing even further to the 2026 Olympics!

I'd rather see Liza than Kostornaya on the World/Olympic team, partially because Liza was not treated fairly for the Worlds 2019 Team, and partially because i strongly dislike (for several years now) Kostornaya (as a person). But Liza has to drop "the bohemian" and "i am too intellectual for Hunger Games" attitude (common to some people in St. Petersburg against Moscow bustle-and-hustlers).

She needs to enter "Hunger Games" race, and 200% devote herself to skating and training, and if 200% is not doing it, then up to 300%. She needs to do everything Aleona Savchenko did and more. I don't think however Mishin can push her that hard, he too, feels that "he earned his right for peaceful existence"...

 

[Tobbe]

I'd rather see Liza than Kostornaya on the World/Olympic team, partially because Liza was not treated fairly for the Worlds 2019 Team, and partially because i strongly dislike (for several years now) Kostornaya (as a person). But Liza has to drop "the bohemian" and "i am too intellectual for Hunger Games" attitude (common to some people in St. Petersburg against Moscow bustle-and-hustlers).

She needs to enter "Hunger Games" race, and 200% devote herself to skating and training, and if 200% is not doing it, then up to 300%. She needs to do everything Aleona Savchenko did and more. I don't think however Mishin can push her that hard, he too, feels that "he earned his right for peaceful existence"...

Kostornaya is not the main problem though. For the Olympic team she needs to beat one of Anna, Sasha and Kamila. And who knows what arsenal Daria (and Maiia) is coming up with next season. The odds look grim for an Olympic ticket for Liza I'm afraid...

 

[rfisher]

I'd rather see Liza than Kostornaya on the World/Olympic team, partially because Liza was not treated fairly for the Worlds 2019 Team, and partially because i strongly dislike (for several years now) Kostornaya (as a person). But Liza has to drop "the bohemian" and "i am too intellectual for Hunger Games" attitude (common to some people in St. Petersburg against Moscow bustle-and-hustlers).

She needs to enter "Hunger Games" race, and 200% devote herself to skating and training, and if 200% is not doing it, then up to 300%. She needs to do everything Aleona Savchenko did and more. I don't think however Mishin can push her that hard, he too, feels that "he earned his right for peaceful existence"...

I agree with regard to 2019 Worlds and she's been in the wrong place two Olympic cycles in a row, but I don't see it happening for her again. Plus, and I've nothing but my own opinion to go on, Mishin doesn't need Liza to get an athlete to the Olympic games. He has Kolyada, who will be making his 2nd trip barring some disaster. I don't think he'll push Liza either and if she doesn't push herself, it won't happen. Again. She knows what the competition is and at this point, it's really up to her to decide if she has the drive. The Russian Federation is not going to give her the benefit of the doubt. We saw that with the 2019 World team. She will literally have to shove it in their face and beat all the others to get one of those spots. There are at least 5 strong candidates for 3 spots which means two are staying in Russia.

 

[Scott512]

I'd rather see Liza than Kostornaya on the World/Olympic team, partially because Liza was not treated fairly for the Worlds 2019 Team, and partially because i strongly dislike (for several years now) Kostornaya (as a person). But Liza has to drop "the bohemian" and "i am too intellectual for Hunger Games" attitude (common to some people in St. Petersburg against Moscow bustle-and-hustlers).

She needs to enter "Hunger Games" race, and 200% devote herself to skating and training, and if 200% is not doing it, then up to 300%. She needs to do everything Aleona Savchenko did and more. I don't think however Mishin can push her that hard, he too, feels that "he earned his right for peaceful existence"...

Just curious but how do you strongly dislike aliona for several years now? She's only 17 what can she have done besides leave EG and TT? My guess is that you think she's a diva of some kind. This girl certainly has a personality.

As for Liza she should keep plugging away she's a great example for younger Russian ladies like Zhenya and then even younger ones whose careers are hanging on by a thread.

 

[hanca]

I'd rather see Liza than Kostornaya on the World/Olympic team, partially because Liza was not treated fairly for the Worlds 2019 Team, and partially because i strongly dislike (for several years now) Kostornaya (as a person). But Liza has to drop "the bohemian" and "i am too intellectual for Hunger Games" attitude (common to some people in St. Petersburg against Moscow bustle-and-hustlers).

Of course you dislike her. How dare she, the b**ch, leave your darling Tutberidze. That’s unforgivable. How could you like her now, even if she did skate as a Goddes!

 

[Wyliefan]

If Liza had no discipline and drive, she wouldn't still be in the game. She certainly wouldn't still be winning competitions. She has a disadvantage in being older than most of the others, and only learning quads now because she didn't need them before. And thank God, she certainly knows better than to starve herself like too many of the other ladies do. But staying as healthy as she can and playing the long game has kept her going while others keep falling by the wayside, and kept her in position to take advantage when they falter.

 

[NAOTMAA]

^^^^
Except being older doesn't negate stupid self sabotage. Why take out a 3A when it's a big point getter for her? Why eliminate/substitute 3-3 combos when she doesn't have to? She's behind not because she's older and learned quads late. She's behind cause her team don't maximize points properly. On paper she should be right up there at the top and shouldn't have to wait for others to falter.

Doing a quad isn't going to help her when she's taking out one of her 3As. Having a 3A doesn't help much when she isn't doing 8 triples total like that jump allows her to do. She's been very successful but at the same time wasteful as well.

 

[starrynight]

Nobody is Savchenko except herself. I agree that Liza doesn't have the absolute focused drive to win. Which is fine. Very few athletes do. Of the younger skaters, I'd say Trusova has it the most, followed by Shcherbakova. They will do what they need to do to succeed. There is a price to be paid for that type of focus and the athlete has to decide if the pain is worth the gain. Staying competitive in singles for more than 4 years as a senior is difficult. Constant training, little time for other things, particularly things young people like to do, is extremely difficult and most don't do it. Fans can whine all they want about wanting to watch the "mature" skater, but they'd need to turn their focus to dance and pairs if that's their wish. Singles, OTOH, enjoy them while they skate because injury, burnout and hungry younger skaters with harder elements are facts of the sport.

This is why I have so much respect for Tukt to stay in the game for so long. Usually it mentally and physically breaks a lot of the ladies after only a few years. It's easy to praise the really young ones for having massive focus, but they are still probably having everything in their lives aside from skating looked after by their parents - cooking, cleaning, washing, daily schedule etc.

Although, on the flip side, the men are doing massive technical content and skaters like Hanyu, Chen, Fernandez, Uno etc have had really long careers. So it's an interesting comparison. Hanyu could well be in the hunt for a third consecutive gold medal at the Olympics (or at least certainly a medal finish).

 

[Tinami Amori]

Just curious but how do you strongly dislike aliona for several years now? She's only 17 what can she have done besides leave EG and TT? My guess is that you think she's a diva of some kind. This girl certainly has a personality.

When Aleona was with Tutberidze she (imo) acted ungracious towards another competitor (at GP event), was pushy with younger skaters at the practice rink, and showed jealousy towards other girls at her rink. I find her overly egotistical and full of herself in an unhealthy way for herself and others. I am not going to re-cap it now, because i posted it all here on FSU at the time it took place during last 4 years.

 

[Tinami Amori]

^^^^
Except being older doesn't negate stupid self sabotage. Why take out a 3A when it's a big point getter for her? Why eliminate/substitute 3-3 combos when she doesn't have to? She's behind not because she's older and learned quads late. She's behind cause her team don't maximize points properly. On paper she should be right up there at the top and shouldn't have to wait for others to falter.

Doing a quad isn't going to help her when she's taking out one of her 3As. Having a 3A doesn't help much when she isn't doing 8 triples total like that jump allows her to do. She's been very successful but at the same time wasteful as well.

Bingo! and i think the reason is - Mishin and Liza have "old school vision" what is a winning programme and how it should be executed. I appreciate Liza trying new style of less played music, but her programmes seems a bit empty to me.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Sergey Davydov's skaters (CSKA) are catching up on difficult jumps.

Masha Gordeeva - 4S

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Sofia Samodelkina - 4L, 4S.

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Davydov has a lot of interesting upcoming ladies and boys, some programmes can be found here.

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[Tobbe]

Bingo! and i think the reason is - Mishin and Liza have "old school vision" what is a winning programme and how it should be executed. I appreciate Liza trying new style of less played music, but her programmes seems a bit empty to me.

Sometimes when Liza skates it looks like she has a Dry Martini in her hand. She should have programs that promotes that cocktail feel.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Anna has been winning gold and medals for a long time, 4 years +, from junior to now senior, nationally and internationally. Your comment sounds like "all judges are stupid and i am smart", plus makes me think that you're bitter that another favorite of yours is not doing too well, and not even competing now......

In my opinion, the judges are not stupid. Just corrupted. Otherwise they would not have been giving +5 GOE for Anna's jumps which do not have significant height nor significant distance. Plus Shcherbakova cannot be compared to Alyona - Alyona has the best skating skills ever, while Shcherbakova has poor skating skills.
Anna Shcherbakova is just a mushroom skater - Russian Satoko Miyahara minus the skating skills.