Royalty Thread#12 Tiaras, Palaces & Gilded Cages

MacMadame

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Wow - that is so out of touch and pretty condescending of them to be honest. They really need to drop the 'wokeness' at this time and do something a little more constructive.
I guess I am out of touch and condescending then since I am sharing links to resources in the World Health forum. 🤷‍♀️
 

starrynight

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The UK has just announced enormous spending measures to mitigate the effects of the shutdowns and unemployment relating to the virus. Who knows what the eventual economic toll of that will be.

I imagine that the public purse paying for ex-royals to be installed with security in foreign countries is going to become less and less popular and affordable. Particularly when there's many perfectly good UK residences that can be secured at a fraction of the cost.

I'll be interested to see where this goes. The most important work for the royal family will be providing support to those in the UK - NHS workers, essential services, food delivery people, unemployed people who lost their jobs etc. It really was an unfortunate time to leave the UK behind, in retrospect.

If we do have a big global recession, I'm sure that people won't care as much about the perceived problems of outrageously rich people.
 
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Lorac

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I guess I am out of touch and condescending then since I am sharing links to resources in the World Health forum. 🤷‍♀️
Did you actually read what they wrote? Telling people who may be 'bored' at home to do an online counselling course to help others??!?!? No where in that post did they link to the WHO which is a valuable resource. Yes they listed a couple of links but then proceeded to tell us all to text or call family - duh - I think most of us are already doing that and didn't need Harry and Meghan to tell us to do - and I wonder if Harry has made any calls to his brother and father!! Usually their posts gets lots of positive comments - this one has hundreds of negative comments - many from people who said how they feel their profession has been belittled - which it had - by Harry and Meghan's - and I'll say it again - condescending comment about how to be a counseller.
 
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canbelto

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I feel like a lot of celeb advice has been really out of touch. And non-celeb advice. A bunch of my more New Agey friends are posting daily about how this is the "ultimate detox" and peddling drinks and detoxes and fitness routines they think will help pass the time in social isolation. We won't even go into the infamous Imagine compilation video.

I feel like the rule is: if it's not informative (wash your hands), not funny, not a performance "for the fans" (like Coldplay's live-streamed concert) and not a cute pet/baby pic, don't post it.
 

starrynight

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Being able to romanticise lock downs is a display of economic privilege. Of course, putting on a positive fun outlook about things is really important, but I've certainly seen some stuff which indicates the poster doesn't really understand how other people are experiencing it.

I expect a lot of that stuff is infuriating for people who have lost their jobs or are scared they will.

Because Meghan and Harry are no longer royals, they can't promote the UK things - like the National Emergency Trust or NHS or any of the economic measures - that actually help. So it has to be the abstract influencer style things.
 

MacMadame

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Because Meghan and Harry are no longer royals, they can't promote the UK things - like the National Emergency Trust or NHS or any of the economic measures - that actually help. So it has to be the abstract influencer style things.
Why not? Anyone can post a link to those things.
 

starrynight

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Why not? Anyone can post a link to those things.
I was thinking more involved support than posting a graphic or a link on social networks - anyone can do that. But, honestly, if they want to focus on supporting the UK fall out from the virus situation, it's probably better that they chalk up the whole leaving thing as a failed experiment and go back to the UK and resume official royal duties.
 

MacMadame

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I think they are in a weird position. If they had had a crystal ball, maybe they would have postponed this split. But it's too late now. 🤷‍♀️ OTOH, they did say they'd be in the UK 6 months of the year. There's no reason not to come back now and do things with their charities to help in this crisis.

I did read the Insta post but not all the way down. I saw some reassurance that people will be feeling stuff, that those feelings are valid, and some links to help. It seemed fine to me.
 

starrynight

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I think they are in a weird position. If they had had a crystal ball, maybe they would have postponed this split. But it's too late now. 🤷‍♀️ OTOH, they did say they'd be in the UK 6 months of the year. There's no reason not to come back now and do things with their charities to help in this crisis.
They can't actually leave Canada now because they can't return if they leave the country. Not sure what Meghan's capacity to move is as she is not a UK citizen or resident as far as I'm aware - maybe that is corrected by her being an immediate family member of a UK citizen.
 

skategal

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They can't actually leave Canada now because they can't return if they leave the country. Not sure what Meghan's capacity to move is as she is not a UK citizen or resident as far as I'm aware - maybe that is corrected by her being an immediate family member of a UK citizen.
It might depend on if they are considered diplomats or not.

IIRC, Some of the new travel rules don’t apply to diplomats.

If not, they could leave Canada but couldn’t come back in.

I’m guessing that they will stay put for awhile just like the rest of us.
 

MacMadame

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I’m guessing that they will stay put for awhile just like the rest of us.
Well they are telling us not to travel. But if they are going to live in the UK 6 months out of the year, they could have started that last week. ;)
 

MacMadame

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Is there some reason they couldn't bring him? (honest question)
 

canbelto

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Is there some reason they couldn't bring him? (honest question)
Apparently they moved all their stuff to Canada. Babies are fussy? And plus I assume they fired their nanny in the UK and found another one in Vancouver Island?
 

aftershocks

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As far as what the Sussexes are doing on Instagram, I'm sure there are going to be criticisms, especially from sections of the British media who are being sued by the Sussexes. ;) As I said, expect all kinds of negative criticism, palace p.r. spin and tabloid lies against the Sussexes to continue.

The below report on the Sussexes' supportive engagement on Instagram is straightforward and neutral. I don't see any significant backlash.

 

overedge

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I think People magazine said H&M left Archie at home (Canada) because they were worried about the ********.
 

aftershocks

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If they had had a crystal ball, maybe they would have postponed this split.
In January, the Sussexes were still negotiating and discussing or trying to discuss their wishes with QE-II and Charles. They were told by Charles' people to put what they envisioned in writing. Harry told them he didn't want to do that because he was concerned something in writing would be leaked. The response to Harry was: "Put it in writing!" Harry put it in writing, and details were immediately released to The Sun. When Harry was informed by The Sun about the leak and that they were going to press with what they had learned, that's when Harry & Meghan made the tough decision to launch their website, which was not finished. They went public in order to stay in control of the narrative, and to avoid annihilation via KP leaks. They had not intended to go public when they did or to end royal public duties as quickly as has turned out. A lot of this was not their choice -- they were given ultimatums and a lot of hardball was played against them.

Thus, it was the leaks to the media which led to the senior royals having to come to grips immediately with resolving the issues surrounding the Sussexs that had been being discussed for many months. Meghan & Harry did not envision going public with their plans until everything had been negotiated behind the scenes. Their hands were forced intentionally. And then the Queen and her handlers finally realized the enormity of the situation and stepped in to resolve things quickly. Once again, M&H had wanted to continue representing the Queen, but were told that would not be possible.

As I've said, and as commentators have also indicated, standing up for Meghan and Harry by any of the top senior royals back in 2018, might have avoided the eventual stand-off and the 'stepping back.' Most of all, the royal firm presenting a united front was advisable but never happened. Even if the KP leaks could have been clamped down on, that might have helped tremendously. But none of that happened.
 

aftershocks

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I wonder if Harry has made any calls to his brother and father!!
:rolleyes: Why exactly are you putting this onus on Harry? In any case, we don't know anything about Harry's personal engagement with the Queen and Prince Charles, aside from palace p.r. spin and KP leaks.

Also, it's very apparent from what we saw visibly at the Commonwealth Service, and from articles that are being written and chatter by royal reporters and leaks by KP that Harry and his brother William are not exactly on friendly terms.
 

mag

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I did read the Insta post but not all the way down. I saw some reassurance that people will be feeling stuff, that those feelings are valid, and some links to help. It seemed fine to me.
The offending paragraph appears to be:

“...If you’re home and feeling bored, you can digitally train to be a counselor and HELP someone who really needs your support! What an amazing way to use this time...”

Which is, IMHO, and the opinion of probably a thousand commenters, pretty tone deaf considering most people are too busy just trying to survive looking after kids, working from home, home schooling, doing laundry, paying bills, walking the dog, cleaning the house including all the extra cleaning required to keep their family safe. It also completely belittles the years and years of theoretical and practical training it takes to be a counselor.

I don’t think for a minute that this was intentional. I think they meant it to be comforting and maybe uplifting. The thing is, it is not the first or even the second time the have behaved in a way that demonstrates a lack of understanding about how most people live and a lack of how immensely privileged and easy their life is. I read a bunch of the comments. These are not haters or racists or people under the control of Kensington Palace. They are real people who are stressed and worried and incredibly offended. Meghan once said if they made a mistake they would be happy to admit it. This really would be the time to do that.
 

kwanfan1818

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"If you're home and feeling bored" has an "If" in it.

Not everyone is struggling to homeschool their children or trying to care for parents from a distance or going to twelve grocery stores to try to feed their family. There are a lot of people who are not used to isolation, especially extroverts whose time is spent with friends, and they aren't quite sure to do with themselves. Or their spouses are giving them a test run of what retirement is going to be like because they don't know what to do with themselves :scream:.

It gets old when the default is the nuclear family, as if that's the only situation on the planet.
 

Vagabond

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The thing is, it is not the first or even the second time the have behaved in a way that demonstrates a lack of understanding about how most people live and a lack of how immensely privileged and easy their life is.
It isn't really a surprise that Harry should be this way. But, given that Meghan grew up in a middle-class, single-parent household in View Park, she should know better.
 

mag

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@kwanfan1818 Absolutely not everyone has those responsibilities, but lots of people do, and clearly many of their followers do. That said, one is still is not going to be able to train to be a counselor over the Internet. That seemed to what got to quite a few people. At least in Canada, where they are currently living, to be a counselor generally requires a Masters degree. Here is a link from the Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association. https://www.ccpa-accp.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/CertificationGuide_EN_MARCH2020.pdf

I also did a quick search of counseling programs. All but one were Masters programs although I did find one that was a 90 week program.

It was just a stupid thing to say. They are not the first and they won’t be the last to put something up of social media that in retrospect should not have been up. I just hope they handle it better than they handled the hullabaloo around the four private flights. That was another tone deaf episode that could have been quickly and easily dealt with that was made worse by their response to it.
 

canbelto

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I actually found this to be the worst part of their message:

If you are in an abusive relationship and now find yourself in isolation with your abuser, these counselors are there for you. You do not need to suffer in silence.
I have read articles about victims of DV and how much they fear being locked in with their abuser during the C O V I D crisis. Talking to a non-licensed counselor in these situations is not going to help. It also is such a big issue that it deserves its own post, with phone numbers (in the UK or CA) and resources to call.

This is also an issue that I feel like you need to have done consistent work in to make an impact. Like Camila -- if she posts about DV during this time, it's consistent because she's been speaking out about this issue for years.

I think the post is like a lot of influencer posts around this time -- vaguely aspirational and a bit tone-deaf. It's like Gal Godot's infamous "Imagine" song compilation. Or Gwyneth Paltrow's post where she kind of just underscores that she's the type of person who can take tons and tons of expensive vacations AND has a fashion line:

 

kittyjake5

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I think that Meghan has a lot on her plate right now with Harry's own emotional state. Folks usually write about what is close to them.
She does have a lot of followers and I think she was trying to give advice and be helpful in her own way. They did post the Queen's message on their site.

Her comments about the "on line training" was an oops though, she got a little ahead of herself on that one.

Happy Mothers Day to all the Mums in the UK.
 

taf2002

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There are more than one type of counselors: there are the ones who train for years & one who has native wisdom. Dear Abby wasn't trained but she counselled millions of people. 9/11 operators don't necessarily have degrees. I know one who doesn't have any college at all. If you've ever had depression & have come out the other side you probably could be helpful to someone who is struggling with their own depression. Not to "cure" them but just to be a support. I'm sure M&H don't expect anyone to get an online degree overnight.
 
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