@MacMadame Which is what is making me side-eye IAM so hard. Sorensen is one of the FEW skaters that had enough evidence against them to be banned and yet IAM is allowing him at the rink.
Repercussions of Papadakis' book & Cizeron's response
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I think not going against the dominant coaching camp just crops up again and again and again, not only in dance, though it may be entrenched in a way there because of the political nature of the sport. I remember all the articles praising the wonder of Canton, how beautiful and perfect everything there was....until it all imploded.
Karen-W
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Do we know this for certain? What we know is that he's traveled with Lolo & Gui to at least two of their competitions - GPdF and Europeans. Is there any
in Montreal who knows if IAM is allowing him to work with FBCiz in any capacity? I thought I read something after the suspension about him possibly working at the gym where he & Lolo trained - which wouldn't preclude him from working with Lolo & Gui, but it's not the same as being allowed at the rink by IAM.
MacMadame
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Based on what I have read... in the beginning, he seemed to be involved with the team's training in some capacity based on gossip coming out of IAM. But at some point, people weren't talking about the team at IAM and the only recent sightings are those of him in the audience and people who were there saying he's at this and that competition.Do we know this for certain? What we know is that he's traveled with Lolo & Gui to at least two of their competitions - GPdF and Europeans. Is there any
I don't pretend to know what is going on. I'm not at IAM and people who are don't seem to be gossiping about this team anymore like they were in the early days.
Also, my original post was not saying anything about whether or not he's coaching right now because I don't know. I was saying that we can't tell if he's allowed to coach based on whether or not he's at the rink coaching (if he even is), because in NA, people do coach "on the sly". IOW, it's a logic thing - A doesn't prove B. It doesn't prove Not B either. It doesn't prove anything. I guess that was confusing to people and some thought I was making a claim about his current status with this team.
SnowQueen11
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It wasn’t very smart for her to proclaim she supports her boyfriend 100% because she “knows” him — apparently he was banned when she said that in the Netflix doc. No reason she needed to go that far - I don’t think she even knew Nik when the rape occurred. There’s no way for her to know what happened. Plus, there was enough evidence to ban him. She’s just choosing to ignore that….
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Miezekatze
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I really disliked my how Laurence came across in the Netflix shows first episode, yikes.
Habs
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Same
Badams
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Yeah. Same. I started with a really open mind, as I have very little knowledge of her. But yeah, yikes indeed.
Karen-W
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I don't think she did herself any favors in any of the episodes.
Sylvia
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What is "enough evidence" referring to?
Saw on X that Papadakis read and liked this essay, Is Olympic Ice Dance like a Bravo Show or a Cult Documentary?:
Is Olympic Ice Dance like a Bravo Show or a Cult Documentary?
Olympic figure skating reads a lot like a Bravo show.
rosedeightonmohammed.substack.com
Bigbird
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Hmm indeed. Need we anymore evidence to support Gabby's claims?
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SnowQueen11
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What is "enough evidence" referring to?
Saw on X that Papadakis read and liked this essay, Is Olympic Ice Dance like a Bravo Show or a Cult Documentary?:
Is Olympic Ice Dance like a Bravo Show or a Cult Documentary?
Olympic figure skating reads a lot like a Bravo show.
When people say there was “enough evidence” to ban him, they mean that a full investigation was conducted. Witnesses were interviewed, and text messages and other communications were reviewed. Based on those findings, he was banned.
His appeal was not about the evidence itself, but about jurisdiction. That jurisdictional ruling is now being appealed, and once jurisdiction is resolved, the ban will likely be reinstated.
No one receives a six-year ban based solely on a “he said, she said” situation. The length of the ban indicates that investigators found sufficient evidence and corroboration during the investigation to support the allegation.
kosjenka
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I'm not sure what everyone is referring to when being disappointed with Laurence's statement in the show about her boyfriend.
What did you expect her to say? Given that they have been together for over a decade as a couple and they remain in a relationship, how would that be possible if she doesn't believe that the accusations are not true and that she supports him 100%?
Did you expect her to be in a relationship with him still but not support him? Seriously, what's the thinking here?
The creator of the series was a guest at the runthrough and from that conversation it quite is clear that it was expected of Laurence to address this because it's essentially an elephant in the room.
I don't really know what some reposition doing this show would have to say, to be honest and logical? Did anybody think that she would say that she knows that he is guilty but she loves him and he is good to her?
I realize that all of you here are convinced that it is not possible that he is not a rapist.
this may come as a shock, but person who commits rape is not a monster 24 /7, all of their lives.
What did you expect her to say? Given that they have been together for over a decade as a couple and they remain in a relationship, how would that be possible if she doesn't believe that the accusations are not true and that she supports him 100%?
Did you expect her to be in a relationship with him still but not support him? Seriously, what's the thinking here?
The creator of the series was a guest at the runthrough and from that conversation it quite is clear that it was expected of Laurence to address this because it's essentially an elephant in the room.
I don't really know what some reposition doing this show would have to say, to be honest and logical? Did anybody think that she would say that she knows that he is guilty but she loves him and he is good to her?
I realize that all of you here are convinced that it is not possible that he is not a rapist.
this may come as a shock, but person who commits rape is not a monster 24 /7, all of their lives.
overedge
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There's always the option of "no comment". At the very least, maybe not position herself as a victim because she lost her skating partnership.
I get this perspective, and she was being interviewed about her experience and if that is how she experienced it I can understand wanting to share it.
She is now going with "no thoughts."
The survivor of the sexual assault has some thoughts and made a statement to Christine Brennan today:
Create an account or log in to Instagram - Share what you're into with the people who get you.
www.instagram.com
Laurence has "no thoughts" on the alleged survivor's comments about what Laurence has said. Brennan isn't letting this go:
Create an account or log in to Instagram - Share what you're into with the people who get you.
www.instagram.com
kosjenka
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@overedge well she is a victim of losing a career with her long-term partner.
And also it’s also possible that Sorensen is not guilty of rape. I don’t know why everybody just thinks that this is out of the question.
The evidence is not public and it definitely is not part of the legal system so legally he’s definitely not guilty of anything.
If she is sure that he is honest, and perhaps we should all think that she has the reason to know better given that she has lived with him for so many years - that means that the woman who has accused him is a liar and therefore FB is also a victim of this situation.
And if our deduction is that she doesn’t know any better bc she trusts him, than she shouldn’t be blamed for feeling like a victim. either way, she is one.
And also it’s also possible that Sorensen is not guilty of rape. I don’t know why everybody just thinks that this is out of the question.
The evidence is not public and it definitely is not part of the legal system so legally he’s definitely not guilty of anything.
If she is sure that he is honest, and perhaps we should all think that she has the reason to know better given that she has lived with him for so many years - that means that the woman who has accused him is a liar and therefore FB is also a victim of this situation.
And if our deduction is that she doesn’t know any better bc she trusts him, than she shouldn’t be blamed for feeling like a victim. either way, she is one.
Karen-W
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With all due respect, there are PLENTY of rapists who get away with it for years, decades even, and the people who live with them have no idea (or perhaps turn a blind eye to evidence right in front of them). I know this to be true because my brother had to testify in court when he found out that one of his closest friends was molesting a young girl close to the family. Turned out, when the arrest was reported in the local newspaper, several more women came forward with reports of him raping them at parties & other gatherings (some of which couldn't be pursued legally because they were too far in the past or there wasn't enough evidence to get a guilty verdict).
Having watched the Netflix documentary, there were a few things that popped out to me with regard to Laurence and her sense of self & confidence which made me think she's perhaps not the best judge of character, especially with regard to her boyfriend. I'll leave it at that because this thread is about Gabriella's book but, suffice it to say, I'm of the belief that Lolo's wearing rose-colored glasses when it comes to Nik.
Well, then, if someone isn't found criminally guilty of rape (which is the case with the majority of rapes), then I guess we just shouldn't care. We don't even have to ignore the non-criminal findings after an investigation or take into consideration that they were overturned only on a jurisdictional technicality. My "thoughts" on this are that such propositions are awful.
Bigbird
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Look, all that was expected of her was silence. Private matters could remain private. Trust me, women are currently married to murderers and rapists. A simple "no comment" would have sufficed. She is his girlfriend, meaning she only knows one side of him. They are all working together in the same space. Was tact too much to ask for? I don't think so.
MacMadame
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I expected her to keep her mouth shut about him and only talk about how the ban impacted her since the show isn't about him and he doesn't appear in it at all.
If you had read all the posts in this thread, I am not sure how you could think that people don't realize this as it gets talked about every time Laurence's statement is brought up.
It's also why her vouching for her boyfriend is meaningless. Just because he is nice to her doesn't mean he can't be a rapist.
I land similarly with Laurence with regard to her self confidence and judgment of character after watching this as well.
Honestly, my feeling after watching the series is she is in part throwing herself into this partnership with Guillaume so as to continue whatever level or delusion or even possibly misplaced forgiveness for him.
An Olympic run with a new partner at the level they are achieving? How could she put much thought or energy into what is going on with her romantic partner.
IMO her achievement is proportional to her need to stay in this delusion.
Barbara Manatee
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You've just shown how the victim is completely right to say that Laurence's comments make it harder for others to come forward to report abuse. Because they will see once again that when friends of the accused insist 'he couldn't have done it because he's a great guy around me,' many people will accept that as evidence the charges are lies. Or they see the framing of partners/family as the victims and the accused as not a total monster, and feel pressured to just keep quiet and move on so they don't ruin all those lives.
Badams
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A rapist is a monster their entire lives. There's never a justification for rape. You can justify theft. You're starving or something similar. You can justify murder. The person is dangerous or trying to hurt you. There is never a justification for rape. Ever. If you're a rapist, you're a monster. I said what I said.
kosjenka
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and I precisely wrote that people who commit horrific crimes are not monsters all of their lives. they are somebody’s father‘s brothers, husbands, neighbours and volunteers and great friends.
You say her words are meaningless, her vouching for her boyfriend. Well, whose words would be meaningful regarding his character? Honestly - who’s word would you deem worthy?
Laurence is innocent in this situation.
Either her long-term boyfriend of 12 years has been wrongly labelled as a rapist on international stage and his and her career was ended because of it or she has been for over 10 years in a committed relationship and work partnership with somebody who has committed horrible crime and has manipulated and lied to her and everybody in their life, has tainted them with his lies and wickedness while he refuses to take responsibility if only in private since he would not face legal consequences however things turn.
You think she should not say anything aside from no comment. This is also about her life and she did not contribute to this becoming unsafe situation for somebody else.
The dilemma I see here to a certain degree and also in the Netflix documentary: Of course it's legitimate that they have to address it. OTOH you are giving Laurence a platform to talk about Nik. She believes he's innocent and will tell you so again and again, with all the ramifications that such a platform has. Going basically no comment yesterday is as good as its going to get.
I will say that regardless the problematic circumstances, it's good that she now has a career outside of her boyfriend. Being so totally wrapped up with each other both personally and professionally was very limiting for her. At least now other opportunities are opening for her professional future.
I will say that regardless the problematic circumstances, it's good that she now has a career outside of her boyfriend. Being so totally wrapped up with each other both personally and professionally was very limiting for her. At least now other opportunities are opening for her professional future.
overedge
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That's not being victimized. That's essentially losing a job, which can happen to people in any occupation, and not always because of anything they personally did or were involved with.
The producers of the documentary addressed Nik's situation (at least in the first episode) with text on screen explaining that his suspension was overturned on procedural grounds and is currently under appeal. That and the brief explanations from the people who aren't Laurence would have been sufficient IMO.
kosjenka
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and who else has publicly stood up with words and conviction for Sorensen?
there were vague comments, cropped instagram photos, mostly anonymous and silence.
silence from people around him because they didn’t want to say much because they don’t want to have questions from journalists? But we could all agree that he is most likely believed to be innocent by his former coaches and many of his former skating friends. and if anything, I am sorry that Brennan is not targeting IAM coaches , Who have known Sorensen longer than Laurance , as he was one of their very first students. They have provided him a protection of the institution they have built over the years. or maybe Skate Canada given that they have acquired Sorenson from Denmark and made sure he got citizenship.
We can always say something vague like everybody is different. I can share that in six years that I worked with victims of rape and sexual assault, for those whose rapist were not their spouse, partner ( and those are major majority in general and those that I’ve met) ect but either a stranger or somebody more distant like an acquaintance, those victims were more worried about not being believed by their circle that they were raped.
Those were primary reasons for not reporting aside from some others that I have already mentioned in previous post. Not everyone can handle telling their story over and over again, and re digging their trauma for the sake of maybe having a police investigation and maybe going to trial.
overedge
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Not saying anything and/or continuing to associate with him is support. As is continuing to employ him.
MacMadame
Getting radicalized on YouTube
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When it comes to other people, I go by actions, not by what people say about them. People are often wrong about the character of other people. And even their own character, if it comes to that.
I did not say she shouldn't say anything. I said she shouldn't say anything about him. She said a lot of things about how this situation impacted her and I didn't object to any of it as she is one of the subjects of the documentary and therefore it was relevant. I only objected to her declaring that she was 100% sure he was innocent. There was no need to do that. No one would have known she was still dating him if she hadn't told us.
And, as I said, I find her declarations less than compelling. Her "100% innocent" boyfriend was accused, thoroughly investigated and, unlike with many, many accusations, got a SIX-YEAR ban. And his appeal was not "you overlooked this evidence" or "you considered the evidence wrongly" but "you don't have jurisdiction."
This is not a case where there is a lot of ambiguity or wiggle room. In our system, many, many more rapists get off than are wrongly convicted. In most cases where the accusation is false, that comes out well before anyone is punished. While there is a theoretical chance he is innocent. It is minuscule. Like 0.0000001%.
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