Question about new skates - advice needed

[SmallFairy]

So... I've been skating in Edea concerto for 1,5 year. They've been ok, but I'm struggling more and more with the stability. I feel they don't support very well at all around the ankle, I lace them up like there was no tomorrow, but then they end up too tight and everything hurts, and they still don't support enough, they just slack off. If I lace looser, they will support even less. My ankles are not very thin, like my friend who had the same problem and switched to Risport. I tried to lace in every different way, with different kind of laces, but it never really works.

I also feel Edea are very narrow at the toes. My feet are quite broad at the toes, and I tried on my a friend's Jackson's (don't know what model) and they felt "rounder" around the toes and wasn't painful at all. My Edea's are. The reason I bought the Concertos was that they were the only pair available for my large, adult feet. (size 41, 270). And I cannot skate without skates, so of course I got them. We have very few shops in Norway and only one actual store in my area, so it's hard, but they can order, I just don't know what to ask for. I've never had the chance to try on different models to compare. Now I more and more feel that Edea and my feet are not meant to be bff's... (My blades are MK professional freestyle, and I like them very much)

I'm quite tall and not big, but more on the heavy side than on the petit, so I need good support. I do single jumps, I'm working on the axel, and I'm competing in adult bronze. What should I do? What brand or type of skates do you recommend? I am so thankful for any input, advice and experiences. I've been looking at Jackson competitor or Jackson premier. I especially like how you lace up premier, maybe I can fit them better around the ankle? Since the Jackson's fit my toes so well, I was thinking I should maybe try them, but is there another brand that could also fit well? Risport are narrow as Edea, right?

The problem is I might never be able to try the skates on when I finally choose, since my size will not be in stock, I may just have to place an order and hope for the best...

Thank you for all help!

 

[Clarice]

I agree that Jacksons feel roomier around the toes. I really liked that when I had them, but I also have narrow heels, which always slipped around, so I had to change brands again (I'm now in SPTeris). I have not tried Edeas, although my adult daughter is in Concertos and loves them. It was my understanding that they're not supposed to lace tight at the ankles, because that's how they flex. My SPTeris are low cut dance boots, and it took me a little while to get used to the apparent lack of support at the ankle, but now I can actually jump in them as well as I could before (admittedly, only single jumps, no axel).

 

[treesprite]

SmallFairy, are your heels proportional to your toes in width size? If so, it might be useful to know that the higher level Jackson's are made split width automatically. Also, with some brands, you can order a change in split width (there is a fee, but it is way less than for full customs). My old boots that are not customs, were adjusted at the factory to a C toe with and A heel (my customs are a EE toe and a AA heel).

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

It's entirely possible that Jackson's fits your foot better in the toes.

Different brands build this out differently in their stock lasts. These two pages have a pretty good breakdown of the differences:

https://skaterslanding.com/pages/comparing-figure-skates-by-fit-design
https://skaterslanding.com/pages/arch-description-foot-type

This is not entirely different from toebox issues in ballet pointe shoes, and it's important to get something that fits you right. I believe all boot brands offer split sizing/etc once you figure out what you need, but typically you'll have to order through a skate shop/authorized dealer to get better customization.

As for the stiffness/tightness problem, you could try getting someone to put an extra layer of foam padding into the tongue. This is a problem I have with my skates:

https://tinyurl.com/y9nnsnqv

Eventually, both boots were padded out and it's been going great.

 

[aliceanne]

In the old days when there was nowhere local to buy skates the rink owner would trace our feet on a piece of cardboard and send it to the boot manufacturer. They would recommend a size/model and send it to the rink. With today's technology there might be a more sophisticated way to do that. I would contact the boot brands you are interested in and ask for recommendations.

I wear Riedell, but I have pretty average size feet.

 

[treesprite]

A good fitter will trace your feet sitting and standing, and do circumference measurements with a tape measure, even if you don't plan to get customs. The fitter will know just from the measurements which brand of skate will be best for your foot shape, and whether a stock boot of a particular model will need any punching or stretching in any area. My skate guy also watches how people walk to help him know blade placement, so there is less of the trial and error that causes extra holes to have to be put in the boot.

 

[sk8girl]

Reviving this thread, since I am also boot shopping and I am having similar challenges. How did it end up going for you, SmallFairy? What did you get, or are you still shopping?

I'm also tall with (annoyingly) large feet and I'm also doing single jumps, but I compete Adult Silver. I went to the largest skate shop anywhere within my vicinity (a 2 hour drive) and even they don't normally stock my size...

All they had for me to try on in my size was a lower end Jackson dance boot, which is not what I'm looking for at all. I'm not sure how consistent the fit is within all the Jackson models, but the ones I tried were just a little too small on my larger foot, which is bad news because that is the largest size. They said they could stretch it, but I'm always a little skeptical of that since I've been told that when shoe shopping for the past decades and I've found that it never helps as much as you'd think. (Has anyone had any luck with skates being stretched for *length* (not width)?)

Anyhow, I was able to try on the Edea Chorus a half size smaller than my size and it felt pretty good considering it wasn't my size. They ordered the Concerto for me in my size to try it. However, what I've heard about Edea is kind of split - some people love them and some people are having issues with them (like SmallFairy). Although, I guess that's probably true for any brand, really.

The one odd thing I found when I tried the Chorus on was that I felt like it didn't fit snugly at the back, above my heel. And this is again a half size *smaller* than my size. The salesperson said that was normal and it allows more knee bend, but it takes some getting used to. Does that sound right? The Concertos they ordered for me will be a half size bigger but also narrower, so I'll see how that feels.

They will only order in one pair at a time, so if the Concertos aren't good, I'll have to randomly order something else, wait around until it comes in, then make yet another 4 hour round trip to try on the next thing. Good times. I so envy my friend with smaller feet who went to the same shop last week and tried on like 8 things, found one that she loved, got her blades mounted, and went home the same day with new skates ready to use!!

For what its worth, I'm in Gams now, but they had nothing even close to my size to try in either those or the Risports...

I'm kind of just rambling and whining now, but any comments or suggestions would be very welcome!

 

[SmallFairy]

Thank you so much everyone who offered their advice and experience in the thread! Sorry I'm a little late replying, suddenly camp (with a possibility to try on new skates) came upon me. @sk8girl I hope it will work out for you in the end! Best of luck!

What happened with me is that I contacted the lady who would be present with her skating shop at the summer camp I attended. She had Jackson Premier and Jackson Competitor in stock in my size, and she said she would bring them for me to try on. Well, it turned out she wasn't really in control of things, and only brought the Premiers. (She also forgot to bring everything else I was buying from her) I was a bit disappointed, as I wanted to compare the two, but at least I got to try the Premiers. They felt so awkward! I've understood from my fellow skaters that Jackson and Edea really are two different things, and they were. My Edeas feel like skates, the Jacksons felt like slalom boots. I couldn't imagine trying any step or jump in them. I know it's just me being used to Edea, as tons of people everywhere are skating in Jackson and love them, but Edea are lower at the ankle and with lower heal and padded differently and I realize I like that.

When I bought my Edeas I came from hockey, and hockey skates are stiff, but not like slalom boots. The transition to Edea was seamless, and I had no trouble breaking into them. Standing there in the the Jackson Premier boots, I SO started longing for my Concertos They have given me pain, but there's also lots to love about them, I know that now that I've tried something very different. I have not completely wrote the quest for new skates off, but I will rest it for a little while, as there is no opportunity for me to try on a different brand anywhere near me for now. If opportunity strikes, I will test another brand. I have done what I can with my Edeas - I don't lace the two lowest hooks at all (my friend stretched his Edea Pianos for width and it was successful, so I might try it), and I got some more solid laces from a friend. Now they don't slip open as bad as before during practice. @Theoreticalgirl thank you so much for the info on padding, I will try that. Have any of you tried waxed laces? I used it for my hockey skates and loved it.

Btw, my skating friend who was skating high level as a kid/teenager in the 60ies and 70ies, told me how they got skates. Of course, nothing could be bought in Norway at that time, so the ordered blades from Sweden. To get to boots, they (three sisters) had to draw the foot in every possible angle and send the drawings to Austria. There the boots were custom sewn for them.

So, maybe I'm an Edea girl after all? They worked very well at camp with the new laces. This is such science....

 

[million$momma]

My daughter uses waxed laces as well as the lace strap that comes with the skates on her Concertos. Both help a lot with the slipping of the laces.

 

[eonice]

Ah yes, the foot cast known as Jackson. The good part about them being stiff is that they offer great support. The down side is the limited flex, even when you leave the top hook unlaced. That was bothering me for a long time, but recently I tried on a pair of Supreme Low Cuts and it's a nothing short of a miracle. They have all of the support AND flexibility you could want, plus they just fit better even without the heat molding. If you ever get a chance, do try on a pair.

 

[sk8girl]

... recently I tried on a pair of Supreme Low Cuts and it's a nothing short of a miracle. They have all of the support AND flexibility you could want, plus they just fit better even without the heat molding. If you ever get a chance, do try on a pair.

I was wondering about the low cuts. It sounds like a great idea and I could definitely use more knee bend, but would that put skaters more at risk for ankle injuries or something? It seems like there's a reason that most higher-end skates (for singles/pairs) are NOT low cut (except for dancers)?

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

I was wondering about the low cuts. It sounds like a great idea and I could definitely use more knee bend, but would that put skaters more at risk for ankle injuries or something? It seems like there's a reason that most higher-end skates (for singles/pairs) are NOT low cut (except for dancers)?

I wear the low cut model and I skate freestyle (axel, etc). I don’t feel like there is any difference in stability from the standard model. I have both the standard and low cut models of the current Supremes, and tbh it’s only .25 inches lower in the front but it made a world of difference in the comfort level (for me it was enough to prevent triggering tendinitis). FWIW, the low cut feels exactly like my Klingbeils in every way possible.

My only change for my next pair will be to add a fourth hooks at the top, set back like a Klingbeil. I have a tendency to tie my skates TIGHT and as a result, the top hooks have gotten thrashed to the point where I busted one on a jump landing earlier this summer and had to have it replaced. (The KB hook layout I hope will distribute the tension and prevent this from happening again.)

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

IIRC, some elite skaters do wear the Low Cuts, most notably Jason Brown and Karen Chen. I think choosing a low cut is less about toe point and more about correct boot fit.

 

[eonice]

I think choosing a low cut is less about toe point and more about correct boot fit.

I'd say it's also a matter of edge depth. The soles of my boots are prematurely worn because I lean at an angle where the boot is scraping the ice. So I got some blades with higher stanchions, but turns out the regular boot doesn't permit leaning that far to the side (I've got scars from the cuff digging into the skin during deep outside edges). The low-cut boot does away with this issue.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

I'd say it's also a matter of edge depth. The soles of my boots are prematurely worn because I lean at an angle where the boot is scraping the ice. So I got some blades with higher stanchions, but turns out the regular boot doesn't permit leaning that far to the side (I've got scars from the cuff digging into the skin during deep outside edges). The low-cut boot does away with this issue.

Not sure how many freestyle skaters are choosing a low cut boot for the sole (ha) reason of not getting their sides scraped. This has never once crossed my mind as a requirement, but then again as someone who wears Gold Stars, it's never been necessary.

 

[vesperholly]

I also think the ankle angle of the standard Jackson boots is a little more acute than other boots. I often feel a bit pitched forward compared to my Klingbeils, where I could stand with my legs straight. Toe point is much more difficult in the Jacksons. I wish those low cuts had been available last year - I would've definitely gotten them! :\

Does anyone know if one of the boot manufacturers will rebuild a Klingbeil boot? I converted my old Klings to dance boots but they're getting a bit broken down even for dance.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

Manufacturers? Not that I know of. But if you have a good skate pro near you, they can rebuild certain parts of the boot.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

@vesperholly I believe Avanta was doing rebuilds on Klingbeils at one point, but given how many times that company has changed hands (among other things), I don't know if that's the case anymore. Not sure if places like Harlick or SP-Teri take on Klingbeils (though hearing how many people are having problems with Harlick these days, I might avoid them).

Another alternative to consider: I ripped a boot hook on a jump landing earlier this summer and found an amazing cobbler that works with a lot of roller skating folks in my town for repair (on top of doing a lot of service for couture and orthopedic shoes). If you can find someone of a similar ilk, it might be worth exploring.

 

[vesperholly]

@vesperholly I believe Avanta was doing rebuilds on Klingbeils at one point, but given how many times that company has changed hands (among other things), I don't know if that's the case anymore. Not sure if places like Harlick or SP-Teri take on Klingbeils (though hearing how many people are having problems with Harlick these days, I might avoid them).

Another alternative to consider: I ripped a boot hook on a jump landing earlier this summer and found an amazing cobbler that works with a lot of roller skating folks in my town for repair (on top of doing a lot of service for couture and orthopedic shoes). If you can find someone of a similar ilk, it might be worth exploring.

Thanks - I might try Avanta if they can settle down a bit. There's no doing dance in my Jacksons.

Hooks and eyes would be ok, but unfortunately it's the padding that needs rebuilding and that seems outside the range of a cobbler.

 

[TAHbKA]

My skates decided to part ways with me. Aka broke.

So, FSU, what do I need:
am short; weight about 60kg; do outside edge spread eagles and that more or less kills the boots (the hill of the boot tore from the leather). I try to do a 1T (it's usually 3/4 underotated ) and a waltz jump (that one is rotated, but usually no more than 5cm high). Shoot the duck and various steps. I skate about 1-2 times a month for perhaps 1-2 hours each time.

The previous skates were Jackson Mystique and they served me for erm.. I think about 5 years? Should I stick to the same ones for another 5 years or try something else?

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

@TAHbKA Aside from what you've described, are you experiencing any pain in the boot otherwise? I would stick with them if they are working for you.

If not, you could try stepping up to the next model (Artiste) or the Premiere Fusion. The Premiere might be too stiff for you, but it's probably better constructed since it's in the competitive line.

 

[TAHbKA]

@TAHbKA Aside from what you've described, are you experiencing any pain in the boot otherwise? I would stick with them if they are working for you.

If not, you could try stepping up to the next model (Artiste) or the Premiere Fusion. The Premiere might be too stiff for you, but it's probably better constructed since it's in the competitive line.

Thanks for the answer.
No pain unless I insist lacing them too tight.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

Thanks - I might try Avanta if they can settle down a bit. There's no doing dance in my Jacksons.

Hooks and eyes would be ok, but unfortunately it's the padding that needs rebuilding and that seems outside the range of a cobbler.

My skate pro can rebuild the padding on the tongue, and I also think elsewhere in the skate. If you have a good skate pro near you, you could consult with that person.

 

[Mad for Skating]

My skates decided to part ways with me. Aka broke.

So, FSU, what do I need:
am short; weight about 60kg; do outside edge spread eagles and that more or less kills the boots (the hill of the boot tore from the leather). I try to do a 1T (it's usually 3/4 underotated ) and a waltz jump (that one is rotated, but usually no more than 5cm high). Shoot the duck and various steps. I skate about 1-2 times a month for perhaps 1-2 hours each time.

The previous skates were Jackson Mystique and they served me for erm.. I think about 5 years? Should I stick to the same ones for another 5 years or try something else?

I'm no expert, but I have a pair of Riedells and they are very comfortable! But my friend has Jacksons and she says they're great.

 

[antmanb]

My skates decided to part ways with me. Aka broke.

So, FSU, what do I need:
am short; weight about 60kg; do outside edge spread eagles and that more or less kills the boots (the hill of the boot tore from the leather). I try to do a 1T (it's usually 3/4 underotated ) and a waltz jump (that one is rotated, but usually no more than 5cm high). Shoot the duck and various steps. I skate about 1-2 times a month for perhaps 1-2 hours each time.

The previous skates were Jackson Mystique and they served me for erm.. I think about 5 years? Should I stick to the same ones for another 5 years or try something else?

If you don't have any complaints about them and they don't cause you any discomfort, then I would stick with them.

The only reason my answer might change is if you plan to increase the amount of jumping that you might do in which case try the next level up. But if not stick with it.

 

[vesperholly]

My skate pro can rebuild the padding on the tongue, and I also think elsewhere in the skate. If you have a good skate pro near you, you could consult with that person.

Great idea but alas our area's very experienced pro just retired - and I'm not even sure he ever did rebuilding. A new person has taken over the shop, and they're very diligently learning (did a great job resurfacing the soles and mounting the blades), but not sure I would trust them with rebuilding a boot just yet.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

Great idea but alas our area's very experienced pro just retired - and I'm not even sure he ever did rebuilding. A new person has taken over the shop, and they're very diligently learning (did a great job resurfacing the soles and mounting the blades), but not sure I would trust them with rebuilding a boot just yet.

This is why I wound up going to a highly experienced cobbler, haha. I couldn't trust the people at my local skate shop with my boots.

 

[mag]

Great idea but alas our area's very experienced pro just retired - and I'm not even sure he ever did rebuilding. A new person has taken over the shop, and they're very diligently learning (did a great job resurfacing the soles and mounting the blades), but not sure I would trust them with rebuilding a boot just yet.

I don’t know where you are, but there is a guy in the Vancouver area who specializes in rebuilding and altering boots. He did work at the skate shop at the 2010 Olympics so he knows his stuff. He would probably do the work mail order. PM me if you want more information.