Paul and Islam: "No Matter What"

After seeing some of the FDs, I have to say that there is nothing special or interesting about P&I's FD that is going to help them move up or stand out. Why do they insist on doing "pretty" and soft all the time? I'd like to see something more powerful and dynamic like the year they won the World Jr silver medal. I don't get the choice of Yentl. I don't want to see a FD to skated to that music, and the judges (esp Euro judges) probably feel the same.
 
It's that time of year again!

Skate Canada is going to be streaming all practices starting tomorrow morning. Who's excited?
 
Let's hope they're ready for SC as it's going to be a jammed packed full of potential top 10 teams (about 7). I do wished they skated to something more dynamic, I still think their W.E program was definitely one of their best (full of difficult steps, intense and soft music).
 
Rafter said:
After seeing some of the FDs, I have to say that there is nothing special or interesting about P&I's FD that is going to help them move up or stand out. Why do they insist on doing "pretty" and soft all the time? I'd like to see something more powerful and dynamic like the year they won the World Jr silver medal. I don't get the choice of Yentl. I don't want to see a FD to skated to that music, and the judges (esp Euro judges) probably feel the same.
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Faiella and Scali disagree.
 
Well, that happened. :confused:

What a beautiful skate. I don't think I've ever seen them look more confident. This program really brings out the best in them. They looked so thrilled at the end, which made it twice as heartbreaking when that stupid, stupid score flashed across the screen. Their tech levels were up there. One L4, the rest L3. The score made no sense.

I also felt much better about their FD after watching the practices, but I don't think it will make an ounce of difference now. Their placement has already been determined. All I can hope is that they have a skate they can take pride in tomorrow.

:mad:
 
skatingfan04 said:
Their tech levels were up there. One L4, the rest L3. The score made no sense.

I also felt much better about their FD after watching the practices, but I don't think it will make an ounce of difference now. Their placement has already been determined. All I can hope is that they have a skate they can take pride in tomorrow.

:mad:
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Pratfall said:
I wondered if it was just me ...
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Well, both their twizzles and lift looked a bit off to me during the skate. And I am far from an expert, so, if even I could see it... Level 3 on one of the Rawensburger sequences and on the partial step sequence is okay. No one, even the top teams, has gotten level 4 on both Rawensburger sequences and level 4 on the partial so far this season.
 
skatingfan04 said:
Well, that happened. :confused:

What a beautiful skate. I don't think I've ever seen them look more confident. This program really brings out the best in them. They looked so thrilled at the end, which made it twice as heartbreaking when that stupid, stupid score flashed across the screen. Their tech levels were up there. One L4, the rest L3. The score made no sense.

I also felt much better about their FD after watching the practices, but I don't think it will make an ounce of difference now. Their placement has already been determined. All I can hope is that they have a skate they can take pride in tomorrow.

:mad:
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I think the only problem with their SD was the twizzles. She clearly did one less than him.
It's a beautiful program but I'm expecting them to move up in the FD.
 
Oh yeah, there was definitely a twizzle problem. It dropped them from L4 to L3. It wasn't nearly significant enough to explain the score, though. For example, even with the lost twizzle level, their technical base value was almost identical to Guingard/Fabbri's (I f I recall correctly, the difference was a few decimal points). Yet they somehow ended up a whopping four points behind.
 
P/I were 3.74 points behind G/F (the Italians). The twizzle difference accounts for 1.7 points. The lift was the highlight of G/F's whole dance, and they scored a point higher. The PCS difference was 1.37, and that seems fair with one program having no major errors.

The rest was fairly even with P/I out-scoring them on the waltz, which was lovely, and G/F out GOEing them on the steps, which were quite dynamic.

Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised that Alex and Mitch scored ahead of M/K. I was afraid they would be 6th.

I like Mitch's haircut, but it makes him practically unrecognizable at first.

I LOVE the Yentl free dance* (party of one?) and can't wait to watch it this afternoon.

*I love, love, love the message of the song and think it's really admirable that they're taking it on.
 
skatingfan04 said:
Oh yeah, there was definitely a twizzle problem. It dropped them from L4 to L3. It wasn't nearly significant enough to explain the score, though. For example, even with the lost twizzle level, their technical base value was almost identical to Guingard/Fabbri's (I f I recall correctly, the difference was a few decimal points). Yet they somehow ended up a whopping four points behind.
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They also got some lower GOE - both on the twizzles and lift which, I guess, is natural with the lost levels and with how impressive G/F's lift looked, and also on the Rawensburger sequences and the partial sequence (although their Rawensburger levels were higher). + Of course, lower PCS. It's very likely that some of the GOE and PCS are higher for Guignard/Fabbri because their skating looks "bigger" (not to say that the quality is automatically better).
 
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Yes, the twizzles were obvious and the lift was cleaner in practice (which Tracy alluded to in her commentary) .. but after G/F's skate (before I got a chance to see the protocols), I wondered if P/I had a deduction.

I'm no expert either but the discrepancy seems a bit much.
 
OK , I have to come back, having seen CassAgain and lauravvv's posts.. guys, that makes some sense (sadly).

For me "bigger" isn't always better. Why should there be additional points for skating with mouths open and arms flinging?
This is something about ice dance judging that I deplore..
Impressive lifts that seem out of character with the program (and the costuming) always break the spell for me.. They become just a trick, not part of a dance.(Just one of my personal bugbears.)

After watching practices I'm much more hopeful for "Yentl". There are some lovely things in the program.. and the message certainly resonates for me.. but will judges see it as a critique ?
 
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Marie France talked about finding the right theming for a team and needing more than one season to do so. I hope that's the case.
 
Can a good tech person explain why their spin was called at level 2? It looks like it was initially called level and then reviewed.

3 level 2s killed their TES. I thought it was a beautiful performance and much improved from the last time I saw it. The straight line lift is so quiet and beautiful. The curve lift was so smooth.
 
They looked great live! Mitchell does not seem as careful with the placement of his skates as Alex - I would love to understand better why they just don't get the scores their performance seems to warrant.
 
CassAgain said:
Can a good tech person explain why their spin was called at level 2? It looks like it was initially called level and then reviewed.

3 level 2s killed their TES. I thought it was a beautiful performance and much improved from the last time I saw it. The straight line lift is so quiet and beautiful. The curve lift was so smooth.
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This program suits them really well. They lost tech levels, which are absolutely fixable. It's a lot easier to fix TES than PCS. They had a level 2 on the spin because Mitch was not low enough in the knee (at least 90 degrees in order for higher levels). I'd have to watch it again, but it's possible they also did not do enough fully counted rotations. Step sequences are notoriously picky, and also reward with a lot of points if you do them well. In order for each of the turns to count, both teams need to complete them. The deeper the edges, the more obvious and easier for the tech specialist to see and award the level. And also the higher the GOE. The tech specialists were very particular for all the teams. In a different competition, with an easier panel, they might have earned level 3's on those steps. The spin is likely a fairly easy fix, and probably just an off moment on this particular day. For the steps, the take-away is skate deeper in the ice, deeper in the edges and lean. They need a little more grit in their skating. If they can find this, they will have more speed, they will be skating bigger, and they are more likely to get higher levels called on their steps. Skating bigger is not about flailing arms and weird faces. It's about a confidence and ownership of the whole ice.

I think both their programs suit them well. There may be some comparisons on the SD with the Shibs, but I do think it is something Alex and Mitch can grow with and do well. I loved Yentl. It was over before I knew it, which is a good sign they are fully engaged in the performance. It will grow and get better over the season.
 
The FD was stunning. There are still several things about the program that bother me, but I'm coming around to the overall idea. My main complaint was always that the footwork sequences are too open, and evidently the judges thought so as well (although why they got higher levels for the same sequences skated more poorly at Nebelhorn will never make sense to me). When you compare these to the sequences they were doing in W.E., the difference is striking. I wish they would beef them up a bit. It's not as if they're not capable. I still don't think the score should have dropped so low, though. The transitions are a bit too open as well, but that is more an aesthetic issue than a score issue. The lifts are incredibly stunning. Overall, they look comfortable and 'free' when skating this program. I still think it's far too 'cookie cutter lyrical' for a team with their abilities, but you'd have to be blind not to see how well they pull it off.

I just hope they enjoy the rest of the season.
 
The theme is so strong in the free dance, I wish they would work on the costume a bit more. Alex doesn't need to go literal and dress up like a yeshiva boy or even a feminist warrior--just something that doesn't look like it could double as a cocktail dress.
 
I'm not sure they're actually going for a feminist story despite the song's original context/meaning. From Nebelhorn:

"Our coach, Marie-France Dubreuil, found the music and played it in the rink," Islam said. "The story is about not knowing the answers of life and of destiny and of discovering the destiny."
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skatingfan04 said:
I still think it's far too 'cookie cutter lyrical' for a team with their abilities, but you'd have to be blind not to see how well they pull it off.
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It's sad that many fans and non fans can see that this program feels that their LP does them no justice. Especially with their abilities. Heck their W.E program showed they could handle intricate footwork. There's always 2016/2017. At this point I'd be happy if they moved to Igor, he'd get their levels up and give them a generic program - less lyrical zzzz.
 
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