Papadakis/Cizeron #8 - Oh Lover Hold On

[sharsk8s]

A bit of behind the scenes from euros https://twitter.com/LOVEMAO11/status/1098522447819595776

 

[cholla]

It's not a very old name, several people of 50 years old or less I know are named Guilhem ! (Including my dad ).

A very old name and a name for the very old isn't the same thing I have a 29 y.o. friend named Guilhem. But Guilhem is actually the archaic and original form of Guillaume. Guillaume is a derivation from the original name Guilhem. The roots are Germanic (will+helm)

Le prénom Guilhem existe sous nos cieux depuis les premiers temps de la chrétienté et fut surtout illustré par une panoplie de nobles, seigneurs et religieux. Cette expansion restreinte à une certaine classe sociale [i.e. your dad has a very posh name !] explique que Guilhem n'ait pas réussi à devenir réellement populaire. Il a ainsi failli disparaître de l'usage. Redécouvert au milieu du XXe siècle, il connut un certain succès à partir des années 1980. Saint Guilhem de Gellone, petit-fils de Charles Martel et cousin de Charlemagne, a inspiré le personnage de Guillaume d’Orange, et popularisé plus tard cette version du prénom d'origine. (...) La migration de populations germaniques vers l'Occitanie dès l'ère mérovingienne explique l'usage populaire de ce prénom dans la région. Saint Guilhem : 28 mai. Saint Guillaume : 10 janvier.

And the pronounciation of it is very different if you have an accent from the north or the south of France.

Or from the East, the West, or the Center like with the entire French language BTW my friend goes by pronounciation "Guième". He is from Savoie. I had absolutely no idea how to spell it in writing the first time I heard it ! Little anecdote : a few years ago, French Nationals were held in Caen. I had never been to the city and allowed myself a little sightseeing. One of the first places I visited was William the Conqueror's (Guillaume le Conquérant) tombstone at l'Abbaye aux Hommes. Incidentally, the family of another French skater was there and asked me if I had come to pray for Guillaume Cizeron to win (which wasn't exactly necessary considering the state of French ice dance field !)

Now we need a dissertation about the origin of "Gabriel/Gabrielle/Gabriella". People, you have two hours and the use of cellphone and the Internet is prohibited ! [This is me being self-derisive because of the here-above useless babbling but I don't feel like working at this ungodly hour so I'm hanging around on FSU instead...)

Back to the original topic : I can't wait for Worlds, just to see how many points H/D will be behind P/C. Just a little reality check for Zach maybe

 

[sharsk8s]

I am really hoping that p/c can get clean TR patterns (I want them to break 85!). I know it is hard for them with the timing of the first pattern, especially with their music change, but I am hoping they really drill it (which they probably will since gui mentioned them needing to fix levels in the RD). I am just worried bc all the TR coming out of gadbois have been a little wonkey so I am not sure who will be able to fix p/c's

 

[cholla]

I am just worried bc all the TR coming out of gadbois have been a little wonkey so I am not sure who will be able to fix p/c's

Themselves ?

 

[annie_mg]

Themselves ?

Christopher Dean? He and Jane were always so precise.

Though I'm pretty sure they won't meet before Worlds.

 

[synian]

So It seems that Gabby and Guillaume will stay in scotland and england in the end of may ... https://www.instagram.com/p/BuQ4qGYHlXU/

 

[cocotaffy]

Inside Skating Europeans review with some nice compliments for Gaby and Guillaume. There were many photos taken during their FD and I do not know how they do it but the overwhelming majority if not all of them are just a vision. I'm sure someone will pull one photos where they have a stupid expression on their face but I have yet to see one. From the hands to their toes, it mostly looks like a painting and you discover little details like here , I hadn't noticed their hand position, especially thanks to the bad camera work at Euros. I also notice from the RD photos in that article, they improved the synchronicity of their bodies, their body lines and the angle of their skates are perfectly mirroring/parallel like here or here. Of course, it is supposed to be like this but they're just getting better and better imo.

 

[sharsk8s]

Inside Skating Europeans review with some nice compliments for Gaby and Guillaume. There were many photos taken during their FD and I do not know how they do it but the overwhelming majority if not all of them are just a vision. I'm sure someone will pull one photos where they have a stupid expression on their face but I have yet to see one. From the hands to their toes, it mostly looks like a painting and you discover little details like here , I hadn't noticed their hand position, especially thanks to the bad camera work at Euros. I also notice from the RD photos in that article, they improved the synchronicity of their bodies, their body lines and the angle of their skates are perfectly mirroring/parallel like here or here. Of course, it is supposed to be like this but they're just getting better and better imo.

I remember a commentator once said that you can take a picture at any moment of their program and it is sure to be amazing. They don't have any awkward moments and each element flows to the next. I agree with the improvements you saw. I think they were great at IdF (especially for a first competition) but there were a few parts that looked like they could be cleaned up. With the changes they made between IdF and Euros I am excited to see what the programs look like by the time worlds comes around.

 

[Emdee]

Are PC going to be on Canadian Stars on Ice? Apparently David Budden said they would be.

I hope so as I haven’t seen them live since the first year they moved to Gadbois.

 

[cocotaffy]

I do not remember who was wondering whether P/C would attend WTT but I answered they would at the time not remembering where I got the info. So bingo, I found the source and it is Gaby herself answering to a reporter right after the RD at French Nationals here. The reporter asks about their schedule for the season and she just enumerates all their competitions including the WTT.

 

[kirkbiggestfan]

Are PC going to be on Canadian Stars on Ice? Apparently David Budden said they would be.

I hope so as I haven’t seen them live since the first year they moved to Gadbois.

They usually do the French tour after Worlds...I haven't seen any promotion for that tour, so it may not be happening this year or it is just a tiny tour.

 

[marbri]

Are PC going to be on Canadian Stars on Ice? Apparently David Budden said they would be.

I hope so as I haven’t seen them live since the first year they moved to Gadbois.

The tweet I saw mentioned the Montreal and Ottawa shows so I would assume it means special guest for those two cities.

 

[sharsk8s]

I am really hoping they do CSOI. I would finally be able to see them and it would be a good opportunity to reach out to the North American audience. I know they train in Canada but when was the last time they actually competed in North America? Boston 2016 I think

 

[Emdee]

The tweet I saw mentioned the Montreal and Ottawa shows so I would assume it means special guest for those two cities.

Well I am at the Hamilton show so won’t get to see them.

 

[marbri]

Well I am at the Hamilton show so won’t get to see them.

Just for clarity I only saw the one tweet (can't find it now) and it was David Baden hinting about something CSOI hashtagging: french, ottawa and montreal.. He doesn't name them but people obviously thinks it refers to PC. I think Toronto shows have had special guests training in the area before so I am assuming it's similar. Montreal being their training base and Ottawa a stone´s throw away (and the shows back to back).

 

[chantilly]

I wonder if there’d be any possibility they would do Skate Canada this coming season.
I’d love to see them in Kelowna.
Otherwise I’m not sure I’d ever get to see them live.

 

[annie_mg]

One of my favorite things about them is how unproblematic their partnership is. We never hear about them fighting and there is never any drama between them. They both just seem like great friends who support eachother

Oh I don't know, a bit of drama is fun too. I always thought the rumor that 'hated each other' put a special touch on their amazing chemistry on the ice.

But I know what you mean about P/C's relationship, the trust they seem to have in each other is warming my heart every time too.

 

[cocotaffy]

But one of the fascinating element of P/C's partnership is that the lack of drama absolutely does not equate to a bland chemistry. They have this depth of emotion between them which is what draws many people in. They also don't have to rely on sexual drama or the will they/won't they angle either to be fascinating. It is something different which runs deep. Other teams can do drama.

 

[sharsk8s]

Even this year where they have a more romantic FD they still aren't relying on the sexual angle which is very nice to see. I like how Gabi and Gui are their own people and do stuff alone and aren't constantly together but it is clear they care deeply about each other and are good friends.

 

[laviemn]

Alyona's husband finished a new drawing of Gabi & Guillaume. Seems to prefer his costume from IdF and hers from Euros. Funny how their lifts seem to inspire the artists and photographers .

https://mobile.twitter.com/Lcross_Art/status/1100807469100683268

I think Gabriella's mother doesn't get enough credit for how strong they are as a team. She must have laid the foundation for not only their skating skills, but also how they treat each other as partners. Did anyone else listen to the TSL interview with the woman who was interviewed by SafeSport before it was taken down? One of the most interesting things she discussed was how boys in dance and pairs are treated like little kings because they're so rare and girls are taught to never complain and be accommodating because they're easily replaced. This woman was taught this by her own mother and her partner was her brother for goodness sake.

Gabi seems to have such a strong sense of self, to be unafraid of voicing her opinions, and she and Guillaume seem to be so mutually grateful to have each other, that I can't imagine they were taught anything like that. It must have been quite a balancing act for Catherine Papadakis to teach her own daughter and a partner who was considered much more talented to be equals.

 

[sharsk8s]

Alyona's husband finished a new drawing of Gabi & Guillaume. Seems to prefer his costume from IdF and hers from Euros. Funny how their lifts seem to inspire the artists and photographers .

https://mobile.twitter.com/Lcross_Art/status/1100807469100683268

I think Gabriella's mother doesn't get enough credit for how strong they are as a team. She must have laid the foundation for not only their skating skills, but also how they treat each other as partners. Did anyone else listen to the TSL interview with the woman who was interviewed by SafeSport before it was taken down? One of the most interesting things she discussed was how boys in dance and pairs are treated like little kings because they're so rare and girls are taught to never complain and be accommodating because they're easily replaced. This woman was taught this by her own mother and her partner was her brother for goodness sake.

Gabi seems to have such a strong sense of self, to be unafraid of voicing her opinions, and she and Guillaume seem to be so mutually grateful to have each other, that I can't imagine they were taught anything like that. It must have been quite a balancing act for Catherine Papadakis to teach her own daughter and a partner who was considered much more talented to be equals.

I very much agree. I think it also helps that they have had the stability of romain who seems very much like a father figure for them in skating and has known them since they were children. I especially agree with when you mentioned that earlier in their partnership Gabi was considered much weaker and many people wanted guillaume to find another partner, of course he never did. I think that just shows how strong of a relationship they have because they have always stuck by each other when one was injured or they were improving at different rates. Their coaches and parents should be very proud of them

 

[cholla]

I think Gabriella's mother doesn't get enough credit for how strong they are as a team.

I fully agree. Catherine Papadakis is definitely a great coach and also a wonderful woman and mother.

 

[Enchanted]

I remember Cizeron commenting he felt the fact they were coached by Gabriella's mother, didn't cause any problems. His exprience supports the argument of her professionalism. It seems she was able to differentiate her roles as a mother and as a coach.

I wonder why not other French skaters seek her advice?

 

[Nmsis]

I wonder why not other French skaters seek her advice?

Because like she said herself, she needed Haguenauer on the side of the rink for the judges to pay attention to Gabriella and Guillaume. At junior or senior level, when they move from one place to another, skaters are looking for something more. At that level, what is the point of changing if you go to a coach that can't add any weight to your status ?

When a dance couple isn't coached by a russian ex-athlete, or Murielle Zazoui and her ex-students, ice dance judges barely look at them.
It's like a big wave that couples and coaches have to break through. And couples often break through by changing coaches and getting one that fit the mold. That's actually what Gabriella and Guillaume did. And Gabriella was her coach's daughter. So what kind of signal did the judges sent to other french skaters ?

But there is one club where kids don't give a flying puck about that and that's Villard. Because many kids and many coaches love what Villard is doing. Villard had 60% of the couples competing in junior nationals.

Now, Clermont has couples competing in benjamin and minime (pre-novice).
But the rising star in those categories is Chalons en Champagne with Barbara Piton (and mini-Gwendal).
Villard and Chalons are the 2 clubs I'd rush to if I were a french ice dancer (if only because Lyon Charlemagne is persona non grata to Gailhaguet). Sorry Maman Papadakis.

ETA : Mini Gwendal is totally unrelated to Gwendal. That's just how I nicknamed a young ice dancer.

 

[laviemn]

If Maman Papadakis gave them the basic foundation that Romain and Marie-France were able to develop into what they are today, it's a shame that she's not involved with developing France's best young talent. I'm talking about skating skills and technique, not art or politics.

 

[cocotaffy]

If Maman Papadakis gave them the basic foundation that Romain and Marie-France were able to develop into what they are today, it's a shame that she's not involved with developing France's best young talent. I'm talking about skating skills and technique, not art or politics.

I don't know how it was between Gaby and her mum but talking about personal experience here, you can sometimes teach things to your own kids you can't to other, the opposite being true too though. When a kid relies solely on external training, he/she won't be able to get the same amount of time dedicated to him/her than a coach/parent who is constantly present on the ice infusing advice on a day to day basis. Again, I don't know that it was like this for Gaby and her mum but I do recall an interview where one of them mentioned the role of mum/coach being fused at times. If done in a smart way, your kid can really benefit from those daily tips and constant reminders. I taught piano to my kids and the fact that I hear them play every day and can intervene to help them out whenever, is an advantage compared to a kid who has only his teacher for a couple of hours a week. Of course, there is a danger of being overbearing to the point where the kid opposes resistance. That is where Gaby's mum must have been a great coach knowing when to step away and intervene. I also don't want to imply she wouldn't do marvel with other kids just maybe not to the same degree than with Gaby and Guillaume due to their special circumstances.
I also remember Mark Hanretty being the only commentators raving, while commenting their SD performance at World 2016 (the waltz), about the role Gaby's mum played to help them develop their great basics.

 

[cholla]

I wonder why not other French skaters seek her advice?

Some actually do. For instance she worked as an "advisor" for Abachkina/Thauron when they were coached by Shpilband/Bourzat. Some others consult her on a regular basis. She works with Zoe Jones and Christopher Boyadji (although they aren't French nor dancers). As for being the full time coach of an elite couple, Nmsis explained it : big name needed at the boards.

 

[sharsk8s]

On another note less then 20 days until worlds! At this point one of my biggest questions is if gabi and gui will have a new exhibition program? I hope so

 

[cholla]

When a dance couple isn't coached by a russian ex-athlete, or Murielle Zazoui and her ex-students, ice dance judges barely look at them.

I'm unsure ice dance judges give a flying fart about Olivier Schönfelder's students

That's actually what Gabriella and Guillaume did. And Gabriella was her coach's daughter. So what kind of signal did the judges sent to other french skaters?

But it's Catherine who sent P/C to Lyon right ? If I remember well she said she had led them as far as she could and thought they had to move to an international level coach. I hope even the judges can understand that, at some point, coaching your own daughter becomes very complicated. To me the fact she still isn't a "big" coach and the fact P/C left Clermont for Lyon are 2 different things. My bet is that as long as Gabriella is in the competitive circuit, Catherine won't try to move to a superior level as a coach.

But there is one club where kids don't give a flying puck about that and that's Villard. Because many kids and many coaches love what Villard is doing. Villard had 60% of the couples competing in junior nationals.

And they were all in the top ranks. Even individual skaters used to go to Villard de Lans and Karine Arribert for advice and special training. Arribert is a "jeweler" when it comes to choreography. But technique-wise they don't go beyond a certain level, most part of time because they don't want to leave the very special Villard atmosphere. But the technical side should get better in the future with the addition of one or several special advisors.

 

[Enchanted]

I'm unsure ice dance judges give a flying fart about Olivier Schönfelder's students

But it's Catherine who sent P/C to Lyon right ? If I remember well she said she had led them as far as she could and thought they had to move to an international level coach. I hope even the judges can understand that, at some point, coaching your own daughter becomes very complicated. To me the fact she still isn't a "big" coach and the fact P/C left Clermont for Lyon are 2 different things. My bet is that as long as Gabriella is in the competitive circuit, Catherine won't try to move to a superior level as a coach.

I have a vague memory that Cizeron said he wanted to move to Lyon after high school. The school he wanted to attend was there. However, I might misremember what he said in an old interview.

And they were all in the top ranks. Even individual skaters used to go to Villard de Lans and Karine Arribert for advice and special training. Arribert is a "jeweler" when it comes to choreography. But technique-wise they don't go beyond a certain level, most part of time because they don't want to leave the very special Villard atmosphere. But the technical side should get better in the future with the addition of one or several special advisors.

Arribert’s choreography is not my cup of tea. I find it dated. I hope the other French icedance centers will equip their skaters with more modern choreography.

It’ll be interesting to see what Gabriella and Guillaume will do in the future, after their competitive careers. Will they be involved in coaching or something else.

@sharsk8s As for their exhibition programs, I’d like to see something new as well.