Papadakis/Cizeron #7 - A Matter of Confidentiality

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Peepsquick said:
I don't think that any of us worry about how P/C will fare this season. We might have diverse reactions to what they will show us but I have no doubt that taste notwithstanding, it will be top notch. I have total "faith" in them as you do with the Shibs. There is no whiff of conspiracy brewing.
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Completely agree. Not sure about the other Gadbois teams though, based on what we have seen so far......
 
lauravvv said:
Thanks a lot, laviemn. A really good article and a beautiful description of Gabriella and Guillaume's dance - had to use Google Translate, but this time the meaning came through really well (or at least it was the impression).
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Here is the (ultra-belated...) English version of P/C's part ;)

"They have music in their flesh and blood. Tango could only glorify this distinctive characteristic. Gabriella Papadakis et Guillaume Cizeron truly master the essence of this dance. They exude Tango. They chose "Oblivion" and "Primavera Portena", well known pieces, but performed by less famed Latvian violonist and orchestra conductor Gidon Kremer. His harmonization is perfect. So are Gabriella and Guillaume. In dark pants and a veil shirt adorned with very tiny color dabs, he is the one who, with his entire body, leads throughout the performance, a woman in a dramatic off one shoulder simple and elegant black dress, seductive, in turns languid and rebellious. Changes of direction, changes of rhythm, their moves are constantly shifting, yet always on a same axis, perfectly balanced, clear-cut, millimetric, and, at the same time, so incredibly natural. As usual, it is hard to describe their program, you absolutely must see and feel it. Yes, I know, you were robbed of this chance... You will have to wait a little bit more, I won't linger on the absence of live streaming. The intricacy of their steps, the complexity of their lifts are fascinating. Only 4s and 5s in their technical score (for the exception of two 3s), a majority of 10 in their components, the total score is rocketing and it is completely fair. They will not perform their free dance tomorrow, as it is not yet ready. Again, one will have to wait (until November 9 to 11 and NHK Trophy), but this time, fair for everyone, we haven't seen it either."

Many thanks to those who already appreciated the French version ;)
 
I would like to see them skate on Nobody, or Over or Let me be your girl, more generally the album of Rachael Yamagata 2016 more rock and guitars. Especially nobody is something!
 
I've never heard of Yamagata and I've been listening to quite a few tracks. Honestly its not my cuppa tea quite dreary.
A couple I did like though were Let me be your girl and another was Brown Eyes.I was trying to envisage them skating to them.Another one was going round in circles or spinning circles?
 
maya1985 said:
I think her name is Gabriella :)

I thought for a moment that I was in the wrong thread ;) ...
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True enough but given all the action in this thread of late I was hoping for a link to their new programs and was super excited... instead I saw the same person bitchin like they did in February.

But Gabrielle DALEMAN is another lovely. 🤣🤣
 
As a Canadian and admitted fan of Gadbois, I do think it’s ok to question whether they are over loaded or not. It seems to be an unprecedented amount of teams they have this season. Time will tell. And I’m not naive enough to claim myself unbiased, but I do get the sense that they try their very best for each and every skater. I also think that P/C have the goods and reputation to go to any camp/school they choose and this would lead me to believe they feel satisfied with their current situation. All will be well there, I think.
 
sap5 said:
If there’s something that Gadbois is doing wrong or not the best it could be, let’s flesh it out. Otherwise this is getting boring.
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The only option for you to get an answer is to go to Gadbois to form your own opinion. Given nothing is perfect on this planet, you’ll obviously see good and bad things there.

As I already said, it’s up to the skaters to take their own responsibilities for anything related to their carreer. It’s their business after all even though - and it’s important to mention it - their decisions are more or less influenced by advises (or eventually instructions) from their own federation, from their sport advisors/managers, etc. + private considerations as well.

Some couples rely 100% on the Gadbois coaches (H/D for instance), some others don’t. G&G follow a different approach by working all their programs with external choreographers, namely Chris Dean and Stéphane Lambiel, a very interesting and 100% European setup (UK, Switzerland and France).

Fortunately, Gaby and Guillaume have been always deeply involved in all interpretation and choreography aspects hence they have all the required skills to quickly understand and assimilate all the details when working directly with Chris and Stéphane to implement them step by step in Gadbois.
 
alain06fr said:
Fortunately, Gaby and Guillaume have been always deeply involved in all interpretation and choreography aspects hence they have all the required skills to quickly understand and assimilate all the details when working directly with Chris and Stéphane to implement them step by step in Gadbois.
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I, for one, am very glad Dean started them off on their tango: he knows what a tango rhythm is and how to choreograph to it.
 
Icetigger said:
I, for one, am very glad Dean started them off on their tango: he knows what a tango rhythm is and how to choreograph to it.
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Definitely! I know you guys (or most of you) couldn’t watch g&g’s tango performed at Masters but, believe me, it’s a super tango.

First, the choreography designed by Chris is a gem as it’s perfectly cadenced by & in sync with the music. In addition, it’s just great in terms of artistic moves and body positions. Believe me, you’ll find all the ingredients you could expect for a tango in the RD designed by Chris and implemented by g&g.

To me, most of the choreographies so far are “tango like” dances. The dancers simulate tango moves in a few (or very few) stopped positions but, as long as they move on the ice, it becomes quite tricky to see any connection between a tango and what is performed on the ice. A tango is a sensual dance. I expect real tango postures and face to face situations while moving (not only while being in stopped positions).

To sum up, you first need a very talented choreographer fully involved who thought and spent the time to translate a ballroom tango into a figure skating choreography. Chris fulfills all these criteria. Last but not least, you need fantastic performers able to appropriate the spirit and all the tango choreography details, especially the most complex ones. G&G have the talent to push the limits up to the point to perform on the ice the most difficult moves and postures.

All of you should try the following: Switching off the sound while watching the rhythmic dances and see whether it really looks like a ballroom tango... or a “tango like”, with a few tango postures lost in some kind of “regular” dancing program...
 
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alain06fr said:
Euhhh... Aren’t we talking about a “school” presented as the best Worldwide ice dance training center with 24 couples?
Among them the World champions, the silver medalists and most of the top ten teams at last Worlds in Milan. It is therefore ecpected that these couples can rely on exceptional training conditions, easy access to various rinks supervised by a large team of top class coaches and of course a perfect organization.
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TCC's rink is dedicated to figure skating but is also a smaller rink. There are loads of rinks closeby which they most likely have agreements with for times like large number competing following week so everyone gets peak run throughs.

Gaddbois team said they are affiliated with a few rinks for overages..within minutes of Gaddbois.
There have been instagrams of the pairs team this week from the Bell Centre.
This sort of thing also makes sense I am thinking is for some of higher elite teams who bring in outside choreog. for just a few days. They need a rink for greater part of each of those days...Every second counts. You can not be queuing for your turn.

Before worlds 2017 I believe it was Gaddbois and TCC went to a rink close to TCC for a few day camp and did run throughs simulations for them all.. All countries, all disciplines, all coaches. I think that was a very smart idea.
 
alain06fr said:
5 ice dance couples for sure trained in Gadbois during the 2014/15 season:

- Gaby & Guillaume,
- Paul / Islam (they stopped afterwards)
- Hurtado / Diaz (they split afterwards)
- Fournier Beaudry / Sorensen
- Robledo / Fenero (they moved to Gadbois with G&G&R)

So, before Romain, Gaby, Guillaume, Celia & Luis moved to Gadbois, 3 couples used to train there:
FournierBeaudry/Sorensen, Hurtado/Diaz,
Paul/Islam
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I thought Hubbell Donahue were also there.
 
jujubi64 said:
I would like to see them skate on Nobody, or Over or Let me be your girl, more generally the album of Rachael Yamagata 2016 more rock and guitars. Especially nobody is something!
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Describing their choice as "lyrical folk" makes me think of acoustic guitar rather than electric, but there are acoustic live versions of 2 of those 3 songs (which I also love):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8253-xcynVA&index=3&list=PLXjhhCVmeJphX6lYWdTWIZmWfhpcqxfqg

She produced an acoustic version of her first album which widens the possibilities for "guitar-based lyrical folk".
https://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Happenstance-Rachael-Yamagata/dp/B01H66NI2W

nuge said:
I've never heard of Yamagata and I've been listening to quite a few tracks. Honestly its not my cuppa tea quite dreary.
A couple I did like though were Let me be your girl and another was Brown Eyes.I was trying to envisage them skating to them.Another one was going round in circles or spinning circles?
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She has some beautiful but slow, somber songs (particularly on Elephants...) that I hope they have not chosen. I want a different mood this time, and the impression they make with those songs could appear too similar to their past programs.
 
alain06fr said:
Mady & Zach were coached by Spilband & Pasquale until 2014/15. They moved to Gadbois afterwards.
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Hubbel/Donahue AND Paul/Islam were both coached by Krylova/Camerlengo in the 2014/15 season. In that season MF did choreograph Paul/Islam's FD for them which they later ditched for Peter Gabriel done by their coaches.

Both teams moved to train in Gadbois after 2015 Worlds so their first season being coached by MF and Patrice and I guess Romain was 2015/16. It was a big conversation around here at the time and IIRC neither team knew the other was in talks to move there. At least that is what either Madi or Zach said back then in an interview.

There were problems brewing in the Krylova camp back then so I think teams were looking to move elsewhere and Montreal was the best NA option at the time. New and upcoming school with a new style of choreography. There was no other options really.
 
laviemn said:
Describing their choice as "lyrical folk" makes me think of acoustic guitar rather than electric, but there are acoustic live versions of 2 of those 3 songs (which I also love):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8253-xcynVA&index=3&list=PLXjhhCVmeJphX6lYWdTWIZmWfhpcqxfqg

She produced an acoustic version of her first album which widens the possibilities for "guitar-based lyrical folk".
https://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Happenstance-Rachael-Yamagata/dp/B01H66NI2W



She has some beautiful but slow, somber songs (particularly on Elephants...) that I hope they have not chosen. I want a different mood this time, and the impression they make with those songs could appear too similar to their past programs.
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I am not familiar with her songs and having listened to a couple of them, I can'y say that I am enthusiastic about it. Nothing to do with the artist and her work but I am not crazy about songs for a FD. Especially songs that are relying heavily on the lyrics. It is just my personal opinion as I am sure that they will weave some magic into whatever they chose. I would have preferred different styles, going from abstract to ethnic or jazz ... so yeah ... pretty much everything else. It might be that I dread something like their exhibition programs ... not crazy about their choice of music in those.
 
marbri said:
Hubbel/Donahue AND Paul/Islam were both coached by Krylova/Camerlengo in the 2014/15 season. In that season MF did choreograph Paul/Islam's FD for them which they later ditched for Peter Gabriel done by their coaches.

Both teams moved to train in Gadbois after 2015 Worlds so their first season being coached by MF and Patrice and I guess Romain was 2015/16. It was a big conversation around here at the time and IIRC neither team knew the other was in talks to move there. At least that is what either Madi or Zach said back then in an interview.
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Thanks for all the details!

marbri said:
There were problems brewing in the Krylova camp back then so I think teams were looking to move elsewhere and Montreal was the best NA option at the time. New and upcoming school with a new style of choreography. There was no other options really.
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Yeah... Major decisions like moving or staying turn to often be default choices rather than preferred choices...
 
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Peepsquick said:
I am not familiar with her songs and having listened to a couple of them, I can'y say that I am enthusiastic about it. Nothing to do with the artist and her work but I am not crazy about songs for a FD. Especially songs that are relying heavily on the lyrics. It is just my personal opinion as I am sure that they will weave some magic into whatever they chose. I would have preferred different styles, going from abstract to ethnic or jazz ... so yeah ... pretty much everything else. It might be that I dread something like their exhibition programs ... not crazy about their choice of music in those.
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I agree with you about their music choices for their exhibitions. It felt like they used that sleepy James Gruntz song for years. The program actually was beautiful and there are Youtube videos that switch out the music that I prefer to watch.

I think Gilles/Poirier's current FD is an example of a song that relies on lyrics resulting in an inspired program, but Yamagata's music is not remotely as familar and is not going to sweep an audience along and could easily result in something generically lovely. And while I'm glad they're working with other choreographers, I wish they had chosen one with a stronger resume. I wonder if Lambiel is the primary choreographer or if it's a Jeffrey Cirio situation where he contributed some movement but wasn't officially listed as choreographer. In some ways this FD is a risk that may not end up looking like much of a risk, if that makes any sense.
 
laviemn said:
I agree with you about their music choices for their exhibitions. It felt like they used that sleepy James Gruntz song for years. The program actually was beautiful and there are Youtube videos that switch out the music that I prefer to watch.

I think Gilles/Poirier's current FD is an example of a song that relies on lyrics resulting in an inspired program, but Yamagata's music is not remotely as familar and is not going to sweep an audience along and could easily result in something generically lovely. And while I'm glad they're working with other choreographers, I wish they had chosen one with a stronger resume. I wonder if Lambiel is the primary choreographer or if it's a Jeffrey Cirio situation where he contributed some movement but wasn't officially listed as choreographer. In some ways this FD is a risk that may not end up looking like much of a risk, if that makes any sense.
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Yes, I do understand what you say and I don't think that Lambiel is a bad choice but he doesn't strike me as someone who has such a different voice from theirs (and that might be why they chose him too). Cirio, on the other hand, had for them the type of input that Chouinard brought to other ice dance teams: something special and new and quite distinctive. I guess, part of me is hoping for them to continue evolving their own style breaking new boundaries on the way:)
Simple ... no pressure!:D
I like Gilles/Poirier SD but I have to confess that I am not much of a fan of their FD (as I usually am). I just don't connect to it or the music (ant its lyrics) and most of all, I don't feel that the piece fits them (or my idea of them, I should say!). I might grow to like it as it continues evolving.
 
Peepsquick said:
I guess, part of me is hoping for them to continue evolving their own style breaking new boundaries on the way
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To me, this is a perfect description of what G&G targets to achieve with the free dance. Their focus has always been to enchante the audience with their sublime skating skills, their own style and their unique artistry.

No doubt for me, I really expect this “part of you” to enjoy G&G’s programs this season. 👍😍
 
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alain06fr said:
To me, this is a perfect description of what G&G targets to achieve with the free dance. Their focus has always been to enchante the audience with their sublime skating skills, their own style and their unique artistry.

No doubt for me, I really expect this “part of you” to enjoy G&G’s programs this season. 👍😍
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I can't wait to see their programs ....but I have to...I have yet to not like their programs so I am sure they will be special.
 
Isabelle.G said:
The same. My only 'problem' with Yamagata's music is that the songs I know and I like are based on piano. On the other hand, it only makes it more interesting and the waiting for the NHK more unbearable. :D
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AFAIK it was already announced but both music pieces from Rachael Yamagata are not piano based but (mainly) acoustic and electric guitar based. Piano was widely used in their last free dances and they wanted to try something else.
 
alain06fr said:
AFAIK it was already announced but both music pieces from Rachael Yamagata are not piano based but (mainly) acoustic and electric guitar based. Piano was widely used in their last free dances and they wanted to try something else.
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Did you like the music, Alain?
 
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