Papadakis/Cizeron #6 - Season's Over - Let's Get Drunk!

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I don’t really understand the implication some are making that MF and P somehow didn’t handle having several top teams as well as they could have done. It seems like they did a much better job than the mess Canton descended into in terms of balancing coaching time, emotional support, managing schedules, and creating programs designed to win. I’ve read every interview and seen absolutely nothing from either Marie or Patrice post-Olys that would suggest they weren’t wholly behind or invested in P/C too- I’m not sure what else MF in particular possibly could have done for them this quad, it was her packaging that really elevated them- and it’s not like Romain hasn’t had moments like 2017 Worlds when he’s said more to the French press than he really ought to have done considering he was also named as part of V/M’s coaching staff.
 
Fizz said:
I don’t really understand the implication some are making that MF and P somehow didn’t handle having several top teams as well as they could have done. It seems like they did a much better job than the mess Canton descended into in terms of balancing coaching time, emotional support, managing schedules, and creating programs designed to win. I’ve read every interview and seen absolutely nothing from either Marie or Patrice post-Olys that would suggest they weren’t wholly behind or invested in P/C too- I’m not sure what else MF in particular possibly could have done for them this quad, it was her packaging that really elevated them- and it’s not like Romain hasn’t had moments like 2017 Worlds when he’s said more to the French press than he really ought to have done considering he was also named as part of V/M’s coaching staff.
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You can't be one hundred percent invested in two teams winning the gold medal at the Olympics......... You just can't. It's called conflict of interest; and all professional people both understand it and the necessary measures a person needs take to avoid it.

I do wish everyone would stop talking about P/C like they are a product on the shelf of the Gadbois supermarket; and actually consider the possibility that what you are getting is maybe their vision, their packaging, that what's special about them is because of their input, and their energy, and their drive. All this Gadbois is more essential to their success than themselves is a bit offensive.........
 
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Icetigger- if parents can love all their children equally... coaches can care about and invest into their students equally.

Not sure why people think P&C got the shaft. They broke records all season.

Honestly this is the worst shaft ever imho
 
Twilight1 said:
Icetigger- if parents can love all their children equally... coaches can care about and invest into their students equally.

Not sure why people think P&C got the shaft. They broke records all season.

Honestly this is the worst shaft ever imho
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I'm not going to reply because I don't think I'll get anything out of talking to you (and I've put you on my ignore list). All the best!
 
Icetigger said:
You can't be one hundred percent invested in two teams winning the gold medal at the Olympics......... You just can't. It called conflict of interest; and all professional people both understand it and the necessary measures a person needs take to avoid it.

I do wish everyone would stop talking about P/C like they are a product on the shelf of the Gadbois supermarket; and actually consider the possibility that what you are getting is maybe their vision, their packaging, that what's special about them is because of their input, and their energy, and their drive. All this Gadbois is more essential to their success than themselves is a bit offensive.........
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D/L have been V/M’s mentors since those two were children. They were never, ever, ever going to turn them down. If this wasn’t something P/C were comfortable with, or felt would harm their gold medal chances which doesn’t make sense to me given how they were being scored in 2017/8 so they were clearly given winning programs and sound technical guidance, they should have moved. I felt exactly the same way with the two teams under Marina. Not much point litigating it now.

I never implied that Gadbois has been more essential to their success than them- clearly their work ethic and vision drives everything. But it’s pretty obvious from their huge leap in 2014 that it was a central factor and MF’s choreo was a big part of that. Nobody’s success comes in a vacuum.
 
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maya1985 said:
Why? Gold and silver in Sotchi (and Vancouver but I think the "problem"is 2014)
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I meant in terms of personal relations, and I’m not even referring to the teams, I’m talking about the contentious Marina/Igor split, which had a negative impact on just about everyone and their training environment for a while. Gold and Silver hadn’t been in question since about 2012 or even longer. The Gadbois team seemed much more united in 2018 in their vision for the school and each pair to me and both teams have repeatedly said the set up worked for them.
 
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Fizz said:
D/L have been V/M’s mentors since those two were children. They were never, ever, ever going to turn them down. If this wasn’t something P/C were comfortable with, they should have moved. I felt exactly the same way with the two teams under Marina. Not much point litigating it now.

I never implied that Gadbois has been more essential to their success than them- clearly their with ethic and vision drives everything. But it’s pretty obvious from their huge leap in 2014 that it was a central factor and MF’s choreo was a big part of that. Nobody’s success comes in a vacuum.
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Actually, no, as professionals providing a service to their teams, responsibility for managing conflict of interest appropriately lies with them, not their teams.

I disagree. Commentators were saying they were going to rise to the top back in autumn 2013 (Eurosport), and they were seen already as the team to watch without her input, and also as less highly placed then they should be. The skating skills they have came with them to Gadbois. They changed from part-time to full-time skaters, so were more dedicated to their skating. They both have art/literary backgrounds, which informs what they do, etc. etc, and which I think made particularly receptive to Catherine Pinard's teaching. Beyond that, Romain came up with the idea for a FS based on Le Parc, not MF. Yes, MF's choreography was a factor, as was the great hair and make up at Gadbois, but to say "it was her packaging that really elevated them" as you did is a partial story dismissive of everyone else's input but above all the fact what they can do, in terms of depth, finesse and nuance, no-one else can, and that the central factor to their elevation is them, what they can do, and the fact no-one else can do it.
 
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A gorgeous photo:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhG-0WtAp2n/?taken-by=gabriellapapadakis

Wasn't there an article stating that Candeloro would choreograph one of their programs for the French tour? From the clips I've seen they're doing the Dancing on Ice version of their SD and a revamped version of Build a Home that I desperately want to see in its entirety. Candeloro didn't adapt Build a Home, did he? When I read that Candeloro would choreograph for them, I was expecting something a bit cheesy to be honest. Now I'm actually curious what they would look like doing that kind of number and I'm disappointed to not see it.

Here's the opening number from the tour. Their movement really, really stands out among the French skaters, but my eye was especially drawn to Gabriella--how things have changed! P/C enter at 3:38.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7e6CXXCqm4
 
P/C were never uncomfortable accepting to train with V/M, they welcomed them with open arms... to quote Scott's words.

But to put everything into perspective :

You have a team ranked 13th at Worlds. They are propelled to number 1 in a year. That never happens. They miss half of the next season due to injury, yet come back and win in World Record fashion. Then one of the biggest Ice Dance teams join their camp : they are very appreciatted and extremely popular which can be understandably indimidating. The face-off doesn't go as planned because of many many mistakes BUT also because you are almost "inexperienced" in comparaison to a 2-time Oympic medallist team (1Gold and 1Silver !) and you choose to experiment a difficult FD this season, judges had a hard time accepting it. Remember that 2 years ago they were 13th...

The Olympic season being what it is, it's competitively tense, everyone is being pressured by the fans, the expectations, the federations, the scrutiny, the fact that they both went to compete with a 15, 20-point lead almost. Again 3 years ago, nobody knew them outside of the small FS world. They handled everything very well, and I believe whatever was said that P/C were trained like crazy physically and mentally. After the Olympic SD, which they handled like champions tbh, they were asked : "Did you hear the CAN score ?". Guillaume said yes, but said that it was not a factor at all, because what the other do do not affect them or their performance and that's why they managed to score so high all season and deservedly so. They performed every single time.

I'm somehow amazed by a team that went from 13th to 1st in one year, proved that it wasn't a fluke the next year even with a concussion (and even separating themselves from the rest of the field), managed to handled the crazy competitors that V/M are despite starting with a 10-point loss, managed to catch them and even overtaking them this year, when they started at the Senior level 7 years later.

If tomorrow, a top team were to ask to move to Montreal P/C would say no I think, and so will H/D too. These 2 teams have accumulated enough experience, learning in 2 years what some others learn in a lifetime, and it will probably set them apart. This will be the top 2 in Montreal for the years to come and that's enough. And maybe top 2 in the world for what we know (especially considering what they both did at Worlds).

I'm one to think that the Gabdois coaches might have been very careful when speaking to the press, even looking distant, because one side could obviously attack the other (and vice-versa) and YES, MF&P are Canadians, which means that if you rave about P/C in a Canadian article while V/M scored less all season, some would have been outraged and the "Marina gate" would have resurfaced. The same would have happenned if role would be reversed and they were all training in France.
However, looking at the teams, they were so trained, so impeccable and all looked so prepared. P/C adressed some confidence issues after Worlds 2017 and it feels like they are gone for good, and they even looked extremely confident at GPF which allow them to win, and knew that they could do it. V/M scored less but unlike some of their weird fans on twitter, they actually took the time to fix what could be fixable and get the job done. Nothing like 2014. They may not have been communicating much due to being very competitive, but there was respect if anything.

The rest is unknown to our eyes, but as far as what I saw on the ice, the coaches did a fantastic job preparing them and nothing will change it. If a coaching change were to happen, okay. It's part of the life of an athlete anyway, they'll do what's best for them, choosing what will be the most efficient way to create, be competitive and stay at the top.

All I can wish for them is the best, wherever that may be...
(...And I also wish for a "Sleeping at Last" FD one day but that's another story):D
 
Icetigger said:
I disagree. Commentators were saying they were going to rise to the top back in autumn 2013 (Eurosport), and they were seen already as the team to watch without her input, and also as less highly placed then they should be. The skating skills they have came with them to Gadbois. They changed from part-time to full-time skaters, so were more dedicated to their skating. They both have art/literary backgrounds, which informs what they do, etc. etc, and which I think made particularly receptive to Catherine Pinard's teaching. Beyond that, Romain came up with the idea for a FS based on Le Parc, not MF. Yes, MF's choreography was a factor, as was the great hair and make up at Gadbois, but to say "it was her packaging that really elevated them" as you did is a partial story dismissive of everyone else's input but above all the fact what they can do, in terms of depth, finesse and nuance, no-one else can, and that the central factor to their elevation is them, what they can do, and the fact no-one else can.
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I hear what you say. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Ultimately I just don’t think 2013/14 P/C would have won the 2015 WC without the team at Gadbois (which includes Pinard who has helped them so much!) even if they’d switched to training full time in France. For whatever reasons- packaging, technical work (Gabi has improved massively and she needed to), choreography, more consistent training etc, I just don’t see it happening as quickly as it did even if it was bound to happen in the end.

Of course it’s the coaches’ responsibility to manage conflicts of interest. But given that D/L made that promise to V/M before P/C were even on their radar and therefore followed through, short of them inventing time travel and persuading V/M not to come back I don’t really see how they could have handled the situation they ended up in any more appropriately.
 
Anyasnake said:
P/C were never uncomfortable accepting to train with V/M, they welcomed them with open arms... to quote Scott's words.

But to put everything into perspective :

You have a team ranked 13th at Worlds. They are propelled to number 1 in a year. That never happens. They miss half of the next season due to injury, yet come back and win in World Record fashion. Then one of the biggest Ice Dance teams join their camp : they are very appreciatted and extremely popular which can be understandably indimidating. The face-off doesn't go as planned because of many many mistakes BUT also because you are almost "inexperienced" in comparaison to a 2-time Oympic medallist team (1Gold and 1Silver !) and you choose to experiment a difficult FD this season, judges had a hard time accepting it. Remember that 2 years ago they were 13th...

The Olympic season being what it is, it's competitively tense, everyone is being pressured by the fans, the expectations, the federations, the scrutiny, the fact that they both went to compete with a 15, 20-point lead almost. Again 3 years ago, nobody knew them outside of the small FS world. They handled everything very well, and I believe whatever was said that P/C were trained like crazy physically and mentally. After the Olympic SD, which they handled like champions tbh, they were asked : "Did you hear the CAN score ?". Guillaume said yes, but said that it was not a factor at all, because what the other do do not affect them or their performance and that's why they managed to score so high all season and deservedly so. They performed every single time.

I'm somehow amazed by a team that went from 13th to 1st in one year, proved that it wasn't a fluke the next year even with a concussion (and even separating themselves from the rest of the field), managed to handled the crazy competitors that V/M are despite starting with a 10-point loss, managed to catch them and even overtaking them this year, when they started at the Senior level 7 years later.

If tomorrow, a top team were to ask to move to Montreal P/C would say no I think, and so will H/D too. These 2 teams have accumulated enough experience, learning in 2 years what some others learn in a lifetime, and it will probably set them apart. This will be the top 2 in Montreal for the years to come and that's enough. And maybe top 2 in the world for what we know (especially considering what they both did at Worlds).

I'm one to think that the Gabdois coaches might have been very careful when speaking to the press, even looking distant, because one side could obviously attack the other (and vice-versa) and YES, MF&P are Canadians, which means that if you rave about P/C in a Canadian article while V/M scored less all season, some would have been outraged and the "Marina gate" would have resurfaced. The same would have happenned if role would be reversed and they were all training in France.
However, looking at the teams, they were so trained, so impeccable and all looked so prepared. P/C adressed some confidence issues after Worlds 2017 and it feels like they are gone for good, and they even looked extremely confident at GPF which allow them to win, and knew that they could do it. V/M scored less but unlike some of their weird fans on twitter, they actually took the time to fix what could be fixable and get the job done. Nothing like 2014. They may not have been communicating much due to being very competitive, but there was respect if anything.

The rest is unknown to our eyes, but as far as what I saw on the ice, the coaches did a fantastic job preparing them and nothing will change it. If a coaching change were to happen, okay. It's part of the life of an athlete anyway, they'll do what's best for them, choosing what will be the most efficient way to create, be competitive and stay at the top.

All I can wish for them is the best, wherever that may be...
(...And I also wish for a "Sleeping at Last" FD one day but that's another story):D
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I agree with all of this :) Both teams looked prepared and confident in their material and technique and that’s about all Gadbois could’ve done. The only thing you could lay at their door is not seeing the costume disaster coming and I think that’s on G&G too. They will have all learnt from it.

I was quite surprised to hear of the potential H/B move to Montreal for your reasons too, not that the request itself is surprising, but because they’ve got real buzz and I thought H/D would want to be the sole US team there.

In the 0.0000001% chance V/M don’t confirm permanent retirement then I feel sorry for MF & P because then they really would be in a pickle :eek:
 
laviemn said:
A gorgeous photo:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhG-0WtAp2n/?taken-by=gabriellapapadakis

Wasn't there an article stating that Candeloro would choreograph one of their programs for the French tour? From the clips I've seen they're doing the Dancing on Ice version of their SD and a revamped version of Build a Home that I desperately want to see in its entirety. Candeloro didn't adapt Build a Home, did he? When I read that Candeloro would choreograph for them, I was expecting something a bit cheesy to be honest. Now I'm actually curious what they would look like doing that kind of number and I'm disappointed to not see it.

Here's the opening number from the tour. Their movement really, really stands out among the French skaters, but my eye was especially drawn to Gabriella--how things have changed! P/C enter at 3:38.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7e6CXXCqm4
Click to expand...
No I don't think Candeloro is the one that choreographed the new Build a Home version :lol: That would be way too surprising haha ! Maybe P/C did it themselves... (Now it's the time someone on twitter asks !)
Yeah, Guillaume has that natural dance quality to him, but turns out Gaby is the star in the end :D It's great that they do show, I feel like it's necessary to upgrade performance quality. I always felt that Meryl&Charlie looked even better after Sochi because of DWTS and the many Ice show they did.
And it's great for the French public, actually some shows have been sold out ! :cheer2:
More funding, more money, more branding : the Beijing 2022 campaign for Gold starts today :EVILLE: :rofl:
(But seriously Gaby could have a permanent makeup crew by her side just like on Dancing On Ice, she looked like 1 Million Dollar - yes I'm being shallow - yes I'm kidding... kind of ?) :D
 
Fizz said:
I was quite surprised to hear of the potential H/B move to Montreal for your reasons too, not that the request itself is surprising, but because they’ve got real buzz and I thought H/D would want to be the sole US team there.
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This "buzz" has been going for quite a while now to be honest... and has never took off properly with the exception of US nationals, but even there the Olympic team was already decided (and rightfully so).
That does not surprise me, because Gadbois could have 2 top US teams, it's like owning half of US Ice Dance at this point, that's clever... but we know what MF&P&Romain can do when a team has the basis (and an exceptionally good dancer like Jean-Luc) so we'll see (still waiting for confirmation). But the gap between them and H/D is still too big to assess anything for now :COP:
 
Anyasnake said:
P/C were never uncomfortable accepting to train with V/M, they welcomed them with open arms... to quote Scott's words.
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Conflict of interest is the coaches responsibility. A young team would not likely recognise that it has come in to effect. That their coaches didn't recognise it shows they weren't operating in their teams' best interests, because of the conflict of interest.

Anyasnake said:
The face-off doesn't go as planned because of many many mistakes BUT also because you are almost "inexperienced" in comparaison to a 2-time Oympic medallist team (1Gold and 1Silver !) and you choose to experiment a difficult FD this season
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Guillaume has said that this year they functioned strategically/tactically for the first time. They should have done that last year. As previously stated, the aiding of teams in their strategic/tactical aims is compromised with conflict of interest is in place. I would suggest that conflict of interest was a likely player in why G and G had the season they did. An inexperienced team gets the experience it needs from its coaches, advising them against their competitors and on seasonal strategy. That they didn't get that I suggest was because of the underlying conflict of interest.

Anyasnake said:
f tomorrow, a top team were to ask to move to Montreal P/C would say no I think, and so will H/D too. These 2 teams have accumulated enough experience, learning in 2 years what some others learn in a lifetime, and it will probably set them apart.
Click to expand...

This just reinforces my point that P/C are more likely to recognise conflict of interest on the part of their coaches, and that it was the responsibility of the experienced coaching team to recognise what they were about to subject their teams.

Anyasnake said:
I'm one to think that the Gabdois coaches might have been very careful when speaking to the press, even looking distant, because one side could obviously attack the other (and vice-versa)
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Again, this is conflict of interest at play. A coach without conflict of interest would be able to go out their and sell their team. Marie-France and co can only go out there and say that their teams are equal and different (Marie-France even using an analogy that Carol Lane had used previously to describe V/M versus P/C (the fire and earth versa air and water one); if you're using Carol Lane- who is their biggest hater- as a source to material to promote P/C then that's really messed up)
Anyasnake said:
The rest is unknown to our eyes, but as far as what I saw on the ice, the coaches did a fantastic job preparing them and nothing will change it.
Click to expand...

Except it's clear to me that conflict of interest was in play; and it seems it's the same to you, but you're just not openly acknowledging it.

And that's without taking the costume malfunction, which was the coaches' responsilbity in to account, which seems to have been missed out.

And I think we all know what Freud would say about that......
 
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@Icetigger Yes, there was a conflict of interest by coaching the opponent team that were : 1.Canadians 2.Darling Ice Dance team of the country. I'm not even denying this one, it's actually okay to admit it.

Was it that conflict that rattled P/C in the 2016-2017 season ? Not really. Losing by 10-point on the first face-off put something in the judges head : "Can they beat them ?". One of people's favourite teams come back, wins, everybody seems happy, P/C did make mistakes and Gabriella said after Worlds 2017 how they were rattled by all of this. But looking at their faces at the Press conference after the WC2017 FD, they knew they could do it and that they would. They were so young and lacking experience, and something shifted in people's perception that day.

Then go prove yourself next season. Because yes, as much as P/C did the impossible (from 13th to 1st), it's much harder if you have a team with that caliber as opponent, there's still the "wait your turn" thing. But they did.

The "conflict of interest" could have been bigger this season. You may have not noticed it, but Marie-France stopped tweeting anything V/M or P/C related from April/May 2017 until the Olympics were over. She was a bit blander in the interview to avoid bad press - or actually hardly did any press. When Romain was speaking to the French press, it was P/C focused too. When he was asked questions about V/M vs P/C it was always like : "P/C have to skate their best to have the maximum score." End of story. (Although in France, we don't have that culture when you think you're bashing a team if you speak about them a certain way, we like to acknowledge the competition, a lot sometimes, say what's great about them, what's not at all too, but that's not bashing. Because if anyone can speak badly about their own athletes, it's us, the French :rollin:)

And nothing about all of this affected P/C in the slightest way in their preparation. Olympics were one competition, but the rest of the year they were just spot on. Yes, this particular SD, this particular costume, this, this... it's annoying to think that, but I can't change history. If anything, the conflict of interest got the coaches blood pressure to climb, along with the officials from the federations and the many fans on the internet. P/C were on fire all year, mentally and physically.
 
Anyasnake said:
@Icetigger Yes, there was a conflict of interest by coaching the opponent team that were : 1.Canadians 2.Darling Ice Dance team of the country. I'm not even denying this one, it's actually okay to admit it.
Click to expand...

I don't think you really understand "conflict of interest" or what it's impact is on the behaviours of individuals who are under it and how it would do on to effect those to whom those people are supposed to be providing a service solely in their interest. But I'm going to move on now..........
 
I clearly see something different here and strongly disagree. I think the writing was on the wall at the GPF and P&C were slated to win at the Olympics. Their material this season was amazing. Their technique was amazing. Their mental training was amazing. They were 100% prepared. They were groomed to win.

There marks all season had them groomed to win.

I don't see how anyone can question coaching when anything to be ready was ticked off as polished and ready for P&C.

Editted to add... based on the above... how was this the case for P&C and V&M...

"A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."
 
Icetigger said:
I don't think you really understand "conflict of interest" or what it's impact is on the behaviours of individuals who are under it and how it would do on to effect those to whom those people are supposed to be providing a service solely in their interest. But I'm going to move on now..........
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I thought the same as I was writing, because this conflict for me did not affect P/C in their performances. AFAIK, they were not betrayed or anything that's why I'm keeping the "conflict" into a personnal issue than something that could have been horrible towards them (which was not). Like I said, I can only see what's on the ice because they all made sure not to say anything much so that the only thing we can do is speculate - and in the end get tired of it. And what was on the ice was spot on and I can't argue with that.
In the end there will always be some frustration, it's normal. But on to the next quad :BNS1:
 
Anyasnake said:
I thought the same as I was writing, because this conflict for me did not affect P/C in their performances. AFAIK, they were not betrayed or anything that's why I'm keeping the "conflict" into a personnal issue than something that could have been horrible towards them (which was not). Like I said, I can only see what's on the ice because they all made sure not to say anything much so that the only thing we can do is speculate - and in the end get tired of it. And what was on the ice was spot on and I can't argue with that.
In the end there will always be some frustration, it's normal. But on to the next quad :BNS1:
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Yeah, you don't understand conflict of interest. It's not really about conflict; it's more about providing a more neutralised non specifically invested service to teams, because you can't go out and out in support and expression of your support and belief in them because if you do the other team will find out and get upset. You can't tell one team they are the best, or coach them to be the best; but you can tell them that they are "their best", or coach them to be "their best" (and that is the nature of how MFD has talked about how she approached coaching her teams). You can't advise them how to take down their opponent and to exploit their weaknesses, because you're responsible for that other team's success also. It disadvantages any teams where the coach is under conflict of interest (not just P/C, also V/M); and it is NOT the same as bias. However in the case of a much more experienced team, it's the less experienced team that would lose out, because V/M would (and do) already have the tactical strategic know how that can now no longer be supplied, the competitive experience which the younger team would have to receive in an advised manner, and the confidence that the younger team won't yet have developed for themselves.

It's not a MFD and PL were pro V/M argument in the slightest; or about negative behaviours from anyone. But rather about the manufacturing of a situation whereby the style of coaching either team can receive becomes limited, and the limiting of that coaching then produces a more meaningful lack of the needed support for one team above of other because of unrelated factors (in this case age and experience)
 
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laviemn said:
A gorgeous photo:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhG-0WtAp2n/?taken-by=gabriellapapadakis

Wasn't there an article stating that Candeloro would choreograph one of their programs for the French tour? From the clips I've seen they're doing the Dancing on Ice version of their SD and a revamped version of Build a Home that I desperately want to see in its entirety. Candeloro didn't adapt Build a Home, did he? When I read that Candeloro would choreograph for them, I was expecting something a bit cheesy to be honest. Now I'm actually curious what they would look like doing that kind of number and I'm disappointed to not see it.

Here's the opening number from the tour. Their movement really, really stands out among the French skaters, but my eye was especially drawn to Gabriella--how things have changed! P/C enter at 3:38.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7e6CXXCqm4
Click to expand...

I don't know where this idea of Candeloro choreographing their ex came from. All I remember is him saying he was in charge of the French tour and that PC would have another exhbition (i.e not the Beyoncé one). He didn't say anything about choreographing... i think..??
 
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Icetigger said:
I don't think you really understand "conflict of interest" or what it's impact is on the behaviours of individuals who are under it and how it would do on to effect those to whom those people are supposed to be providing a service solely in their interest. But I'm going to move on now..........
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I think you should move on for the sake of the thread. Please.
 
The season ended on such a positive note for them. Lots of positive vibes in here too. It’s kind of a bummer that their fan thread has been overtaken by all this the past couple of days.
Of course there’s no rule that the fan thread should take a certain tone at all times but all this seems unnecessary.
 
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2020 Worlds - What would have happened?
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