Nobunari Oda: Harassment forced me to quit as Kansai University coach

[wickedwitch]

A friend who is lives in Japan told me that Oda has a case. Apparently, you have to make your case before you can file a lawsuit. Also, someone mentioned to me that Mie is not well-liked in the Japanese skating community. Don't know if it's true or not, nor did they give me any reason for the dislike.

Maybe it has something to do with physically abusing children.

 

[Tavi]

A friend who is lives in Japan told me that Oda has a case. Apparently, you have to make your case before you can file a lawsuit. Also, someone mentioned to me that Mie is not well-liked in the Japanese skating community. Don't know if it's true or not, nor did they give me any reason for the dislike.

Thanks for info - I know absolutely nothing about Japanese law, but doing it that way actually makes a lot of sense. In the US, the EEOC in particular doesn’t require much proof at the complaint stage.

Sorry for OT!

 

[Meoima]

A friend who is lives in Japan told me that Oda has a case. Apparently, you have to make your case before you can file a lawsuit. Also, someone mentioned to me that Mie is not well-liked in the Japanese skating community. Don't know if it's true or not, nor did they give me any reason for the dislike.

I am sorry that my English understanding is not so good. What do you mean when you say "Oda has a case"? Does that mean he has proof to prove that he was abused because of Hamada and the University or something?

 

[CaliSteve]

I am sorry that my English understanding is not so good. What do you mean when you say "Oda has a case"? Does that mean he has proof to prove that he was abused because of Hamada and the University or something?

From my understanding, In Japan, you have to go through a process before you can file a lawsuit. It is not like that here in the US. From what my friend has learned, there seems to be evidence that leads him to believe that the lawsuit has merits.

 

[allezfred]

Japan and Japanese people are generally not litigious. I guess Oda’s team must feel they have a very strong casez

 

[VGThuy]

All of that stuff about Fumie sounds like things I expected. I do think maybe there was a sort of group mentality where Shizuka was the nice Queen Bee and Fumie preferred to not be a part of that and was more individualistic. Then if Fumie's personality just rubs people the wrong way, then it exacerbates the problem. Add on the fact that Shizuka and Fumie really did have a rivalry that started since at least Nagano where Shizuka got the lone Japanese spot and then Fumie's star rose in the early 2000s winning two World bronze medals in a row, reaching its apex when Fumie beat out Sasha at the 2003-2004 GPF, things were looking good for Fumie until Shizuka surprisingly won Worlds that same season. Add the fact that Miki Ando was the World Junior Champion that season and placed higher than her at those Worlds too...pressure from Ota who was also the 2003 World Junior champion as well, I bet it made Fumie sort of protective of her status. Fumie sort of yo-yoed in being either the highest ranked Japanese lady on the Worlds team to passed over for a shinier Japanese lady and I think it probably gave her a complex. Then if you have a bunch of her rivals being friends and she's the outlier (possibly her own doing) then that doesn't help matters.

I remember one GP event in the 2002-2003 season where either ESPN or Lifetime showed Shizuka and Yoshie Onda backstage watching Fumie skating her Swan Lake LP and it looked like they were mimicking her swan flapping and talking about her. It seemed sort of mean girls-ish, but then maybe that was just a natural reaction to a person who frustrated them over the years and treated them badly. We don't really know.

 

[Bonjour Sherry]

I know this is somewhat OT, but the thread's discussion of Mie Hamada and more broadly about abuses towards skaters reminded me of one thing: Satoko Miyahara is a natural clockwise jumper but was instructed to jump counter-clockwise, based on what I've read. Is this true, and who was responsible for doing this? I find forcing skaters to jump and/or spin in an unnatural way to be just as disgusting as all of the body-shaming/starving that allegedly happens in this sport. I'm sure that if Satoko can jump in her natural direction, she would have spectacular jumps and less issues with cheating them, considering that she is such a hard-worker and otherwise an outstanding skater (and perhaps she would have won a World title along with all this).

 

[VGThuy]

I know this is somewhat OT, but the thread's discussion of Mie Hamada and more broadly about abuses towards skaters reminded me of one thing: Satoko Miyahara is a natural clockwise jumper but was instructed to jump counter-clockwise, based on what I've read. Is this true, and who was responsible for doing this? I find forcing skaters to jump and/or spin in an unnatural way to be just as disgusting as all of the body-shaming/starving that allegedly happens in this sport. I'm sure that if Satoko can jump in her natural direction, she would have spectacular jumps and less issues with cheating them, considering that she is such a hard-worker and otherwise an outstanding skater (and perhaps she would have won a World title along with all this).

I read it's a safety issue in Japan since there aren't that many rinks and so many skaters on the ice at one time. However, I've long-suspected that Satoko's small jumps and issues with rotation all stem from the fact that she is turning in her unnatural direction. Fun fact, Maia Shibutani also skates in her unnatural direction to match Alex but luckily, they're ice dancers and not pairs skaters so it doesn't hurt her so much.

 

[Bonjour Sherry]

I read it's a safety issue in Japan since there aren't that many rinks and so many skaters on the ice at one time. However, I've long-suspected that Satoko's small jumps and issues with rotation all stem from the fact that she is turning in her unnatural direction. Fun fact, Maia Shibutani also skates in her unnatural direction to match Alex but luckily, they're ice dancers and not pairs skaters so it doesn't hurt her so much.

That makes more sense, but it's still very unfortunate.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Some people, from FSF of Japan, are not happy with the law-suit's timing, right before NHK Trophy and GPF.. There are comments "why now?".

Some feel it is throwing a shade on the whole japanese figure skating and distracting the practices of innocent skaters. some say this is Hanyu's important season, and Oda is Hanyu's friend. This is an important season for Hanyu, and his chance to reclaim Gold from Nathan Chen.

感情の起伏が激しい？織田信成による訴訟に関大関係者から違和感 - ライブドアニュース

関西大学のコーチをモラハラで訴訟した織田信成を女性セブンが報じた。大学にあまり来ていなかった織田の訴訟に違和感があると関大関係者。織田は感情の起伏が激しく、不安定と見る人もいると別の関係者は語った

news.livedoor.com

Hamada told reporters she will not answer any questions except those related to skating "I will only talk about skating, there is competition taking place, i need to look after (accompany) Rika".

浜田コーチ、モラハラ騒動語らず「スケートのことしか話さない。今大会もこれからもです」 - スポーツ報知

１０年バンクーバー五輪男子代表の織田信成氏から提訴された浜田美栄コーチが、女子の公式練習で指導する紀平の調整を見守った。

hochi.news

Rika, Hamada, Oda, lawsuit are being mentioned all "in one bunch" in an NHK paragraph in print.

紀平、ＮＨＫ杯へ笑顔　浜田コーチは無言貫く

フィギュアスケートのグランプリ（ＧＰ）シリーズ第６戦、ＮＨＫ杯（２２、２３日・札幌）に出場する女子の紀平梨花（関大ＫＦＳＣ）が２０日、新千歳空港に到着し「（…

www.sankei.com

Former skater, Emi Watanabe, got a call from a reporter to comment on the issue, and said something about this being "a tip of the iceberg, there are problems".

織田信成氏が濱田美栄コーチを提訴 渡部絵美氏「氷山の一角」 - ライブドアニュース

19日、「スッキリ」の電話取材に元フィギュア選手の渡部絵美氏が応じた。織田信成が濱田美栄コーチを提訴した件を巡り、「氷山の一角」とコメント。フィギュア界の「悪しき習慣」について「思うことはたくさんある」と語った

news.livedoor.com

 

[livetoskate]

In the United States, someone in Oda's position might be able to bring an action before the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission against his employer and other employees for maintaining a hostile work environment if the actions of the other employees were discriminatory in nature. I have no idea whether there is anything kcomparable under Japanese law.

Veering OT, but the EEOC doesn't deal with all hostile work environment cases. The complainant still has to show that the discrimination was due to race, sex, religion, natl origin, disability, or retaliation for prior EEO activity. However, it is true there are other things colleague can sue another for, e.g. defamation, infliction of emotional distress, or tortious interference with contract.

Anyway, it's good that Oda has recourse under Japanese law. He's always seemed like a cheerful, nice guy, and a very talented skater too.

 

[Madhatter]

Some people, from FSF of Japan, are not happy with the law-suit's timing, right before NHK Trophy and GPF.. There are comments "why now?".

Some feel it is throwing a shade on the whole japanese figure skating and distracting the practices of innocent skaters. some say this is Hanyu's important season, and Oda is Hanyu's friend. This is an important season for Hanyu, and his chance to reclaim Gold from Nathan Chen.

How the heck did they even manage to put blame on Hanyu for something like that? I'm starting to believe those conspiracy theories that JSF hates him and media get paid by tarnishing him because that's just mind-boggling.

 

[Kateri]

How the heck did they even manage to put blame on Hanyu for something like that? I'm starting to believe those conspiracy theories that JSF hates him and media get paid by tarnishing him because that's just mind-boggling.

I get the impression they are blaming Oda not Hanyu, i.e. "Oda, how dare you bring a lawsuit now, you are causing drama and distracting HANYU, who is supposed to be your FRIEND omg."

 

[Madhatter]

I get the impression they are blaming Oda not Hanyu, i.e. "Oda, how dare you bring a lawsuit now, you are causing drama and distracting HANYU, who is supposed to be your FRIEND omg."

I didn't even think of this explanation, I thought the skaters who might be driven to distraction would be just Hamada skaters. Shows what I know about fan brains.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I didn't even think of this explanation, I thought the skaters who might be driven to distraction would be just Hamada skaters. Shows what I know about fan brains.

In the article it refers to the fact that Hanyu has a tough season ahead, he is fighting to get his Gold back from Nathan Chen, this case is a distraction (and reputation? issue) for everyone, and given that Oda is Hanyu's friend, he might have considered the timing. (it's in the last three paragraphs of the article above).

 

[rosewood]

Some feel it is throwing a shade on the whole japanese figure skating and distracting the practices of innocent skaters. some say this is Hanyu's important season, and Oda is Hanyu's friend. This is an important season for Hanyu, and his chance to reclaim Gold from Nathan Chen.

感情の起伏が激しい？織田信成による訴訟に関大関係者から違和感 - ライブドアニュース

関西大学のコーチをモラハラで訴訟した織田信成を女性セブンが報じた。大学にあまり来ていなかった織田の訴訟に違和感があると関大関係者。織田は感情の起伏が激しく、不安定と見る人もいると別の関係者は語った

news.livedoor.com

How the heck did they even manage to put blame on Hanyu for something like that? I'm starting to believe those conspiracy theories that JSF hates him and media get paid by tarnishing him because that's just mind-boggling.

The original source of this article (posted by Tinami) is Post Seven which is a typical tabloid magazine. Whatever they write, it's hardly taken serious. 🗑

ETA:
The Japanese sources posted on #70 (by Tinami) are #1 gossip magazine #2 sports paper #3 broad sheet #4 sports paper in the order.

 

[Tinami Amori]

The original source of this article (posted by Tinami) is Post Seven which is a typical tabloid magazine. Whatever they write, it's hardly taken serious. 🗑

ETA:
The Japanese sources posted on #70 (by Tinami) are #1 gossip magazine #2 sports paper #3 broad sheet #4 sports paper in the order.

Unfortunately the subject of "poor timing" and how it affects Hanyu (and Rika), that very same phrase is posted in several sources, which are tabloids, but the "concern with those comments" has been repeated in several sources.

指定されたページが見つかりません。｜Infoseekニュース

404ページです。楽天が運営するニュースサイトです。

news.infoseek.co.jp

織田信成のモラハラ訴訟　「なぜ今？」と関係者から異論噴出（NEWS ポストセブン） - Yahoo!ニュース

「なぜこのタイミングなのか…後輩たちへの影響を誰よりもわかっているはずなのに今回ばかりは不可解です。周囲は会見することも、訴訟を起こすことも直前まで反対していました。でも、どうしても本人の気が済まな - Yahoo!ニュース(NEWS ポストセブン)

headlines.yahoo.co.jp

 

[rosewood]

Unfortunately the subject of "poor timing" and how it affects Hanyu (and Rika), that very same phrase is posted in several sources, which are tabloids, but the "concern with those comments" has been repeated in several sources.

指定されたページが見つかりません。｜Infoseekニュース

404ページです。楽天が運営するニュースサイトです。

news.infoseek.co.jp

織田信成のモラハラ訴訟　「なぜ今？」と関係者から異論噴出（NEWS ポストセブン） - Yahoo!ニュース

「なぜこのタイミングなのか…後輩たちへの影響を誰よりもわかっているはずなのに今回ばかりは不可解です。周囲は会見することも、訴訟を起こすことも直前まで反対していました。でも、どうしても本人の気が済まな - Yahoo!ニュース(NEWS ポストセブン)

headlines.yahoo.co.jp

If you can read Japanese, you can confirm that both of the articles you posted are from the same tabloid magazine (Post Seven) which you already posted on #70 post. You are repeating to post the same article three times.

The tabloid magazine just tried to make their article sensational by using names of current top skaters. BTW I feel the trend of dissing Oda is originally came from Kansai Uni's announcement which said that they are very sorry it happened in the middle of figure skating serious season when their skaters are doing their best to prepare for competitions. That said, Kansai Uni referred to just their own skaters who are involved in their university and their affiliated skating club. It's the gossip magazine who tried to exaggerate.

 

[overedge]

Veering OT, but the EEOC doesn't deal with all hostile work environment cases. The complainant still has to show that the discrimination was due to race, sex, religion, natl origin, disability, or retaliation for prior EEO activity. However, it is true there are other things colleague can sue another for, e.g. defamation, infliction of emotional distress, or tortious interference with contract.

Anyway, it's good that Oda has recourse under Japanese law. He's always seemed like a cheerful, nice guy, and a very talented skater too.

I'm not sure how this would work in Japan, but not all coaches in North America are employees. Some are employees of the rink or the club, but others are independent contractors who are self-employed and who buy ice time from a club or rink to work with their students. I don't believe that "hostile work environment" rules usually apply to independent contractors.

 

[Tinami Amori]

BTW I feel the trend of dissing Oda is originally came from Kansai Uni's announcement which said that they are very sorry it happened in the middle of figure skating serious season when their skaters are doing their best to prepare for competitions. That said, Kansai Uni referred to just their own skaters who are involved in their university and their affiliated skating club. It's the gossip magazine who tried to exaggerate.

You're right. unfortunately there are some twitting/posting taking place on the subject of his timing. i am not taking sides. just searching what is getting posted on the subject.

 

[raruki]

Kansai University recently has released an investigation regarding the Oda's allegations towards Hamada's 'moral harassment’.

関西大学

関西大学の公式WEBサイト。関西大学は、1886（明治19）年に創立した総合大学です。本サイトでは、関西大学での学びや取り組み、施設等を紹介しています。ぜひご覧ください。

www.kansai-u.ac.jp

KSU said the former director of KSU skating club, Nobunari Oda, requested to fire Mie hamada for three particular reasons: Changing the practising time, disobeying and changing the rules and conducting dangerous training methods.KSU decided to investigate the allegations to Hamada by hearing the voices on both sides and surveying with the other relevant parties. According to KSU, after a series of investigation and survey, KSU said there is no obvious evidence for Hamada's 'moral harassment', and it is inappropriate for KSU to accept and support Oda's allegations in a comprehensive manner.

1.Changing the practising time
For the sake of ensuring enough school-times for the kids, Oda decided to change the practising time from afternoon to the early morning, but it caused a series of problems, from Hamada. Hamada said the decision-maker and the leaders of the school did not present during the morning training time, it also bothered and confused the kid who has to catch the early bus for the morning-practise and seriously affected the training for speed skating and ice hockey; Hamada and the other coaches decided to make a survey among the parents, the parents wanted to bring back the old schedule.

Other coaches also said the new training schedule causes many complaints among the parents, it also contradicted the purpose of implementing the new training schedule: It could not ensuring enough school-times and caused a lot of lates of the school. Therefore, Hamada and the other coaches decided to bring back the old schedule on May 22nd. 2 days before the bring-back-the-old-schedule day, Hamada had already told Oda for their decisions, and Oda said Yes in a very impatient manner.

2. Conducting a dangerous training method
According to Oda, he said that Hamada team violated the rules by letting 5 people do the 'figure-8 training' on the rink. It should be three people on the rink to do the 'figure-8 training' and Oda wanted to dissuade them to stop, but Hamada ignored him at all.

But Hamada said she was not here on that day, the other coaches witnessed that it was the other team, not Team Hamada, who got critics from Oda.

3.Changing the rules
Oda said he changed the rule by introducing stricter rules about requiring stricter academic performance in evaluations, and negotiated with most of the coaches and management of the club but met with strong opposition against the rule and he didn't know why.

Hamada insisted that students, whether they want to suspend their study for training or not should be their own personal right. Also, Hamada questioned some of the methods, especially the young athletes are not allowed to practise on the rink with poor academic performance can truly help the kids academically and physically. What’s more, some of the athlete might have a rest or holiday during the May’s holiday, they would certainly miss some of the classes, they might be not allow to practice on the rinks according to Oda’s rules

Other Coaches also questioned the methods about not allowing the student with poorer grades to practise on ice is inappropriate and some young athletes also showed their concern on this rule, but Ode refused to negotiate with them.

 

[raruki]

Sorry for my poor Japanese, I am not the native Japanese speaker and might get some mistakes in translating.
All I can say is that What KSU said and investigated were totally against Oda's allegations towards Hamada, and It seems that Oda ought to be the problematic one with his managing style and autocratic manner, and It was Hamada that fixing any mistake that the new policies Oda put forward.
What do you think of the investigation, guys？

 

[thvu]

Some people, from FSF of Japan, are not happy with the law-suit's timing, right before NHK Trophy and GPF.. There are comments "why now?".

Some feel it is throwing a shade on the whole japanese figure skating and distracting the practices of innocent skaters. some say this is Hanyu's important season, and Oda is Hanyu's friend. This is an important season for Hanyu, and his chance to reclaim Gold from Nathan Chen.

感情の起伏が激しい？織田信成による訴訟に関大関係者から違和感 - ライブドアニュース

関西大学のコーチをモラハラで訴訟した織田信成を女性セブンが報じた。大学にあまり来ていなかった織田の訴訟に違和感があると関大関係者。織田は感情の起伏が激しく、不安定と見る人もいると別の関係者は語った

news.livedoor.com

These people are absolutely ridiculous. Is this the Japanese Fed’s version of “think of the children!”? “But what about Hanyu!?”

 

[Tinami Amori]

What do you think of the investigation, guys？

I won't highlight parts of the post with investigation report, just a few comments.

• I am on the side of "education" especially when the skating club is part of an Educational Institution, let alone a University.
• Also, i can't figure out if the student-skaters in question are mid/high-school level, or university level. that makes a difference.
• But the report shows a lot of "gray area" between "Odo's vision of what's right" and "how it actually affected students/parents" in terms of "quality/quantity of minimums in education".
• Wanting something right to happen, does not always means that the person, who wants the "right" to happen, chose the correct process/system, and/or if it is effective.
• I would have liked to know if the majority of students, who were subject to schedule change, were failing to get in their classes minimum passing grades.
• The argument "parents were not happy and they have the right to decide" is usually correct, but ensuring that young people receive minimum/basic education in most civilized countries is a government-supervised matter and there are laws.
• now i have a question, did Oda try to change the system/schedule to give kids "more time for school" because of his ideology and vision, or because there was a proof that they are failing/missing/lagging behind in their classes.
• it appears, in the report, that Oda did not coordinate the changes with other employees and most importantly families of these skaters. And when families objected, he was not responsive. Maybe he has his facts that are different.. Or maybe parents were more interested to take Hamada's side..
• Figures 8 and number of skaters on ice. In my days if i recall correctly, there where close to 8 even 10 patterns/skaters on ice, well 6 for sure. I have no idea why 5 instead of 3 is viewed as "dangerous", if each stays on his/her own pattern. This issue is VERY odd to me... Maybe the group practices more than just school-figures in the same session, but 5 being dangerous is still odd.....
• Oda wanting to fire Hamada needs clarification from Oda. Did he want to part ways with her after the conflict started, or was it his intention from the start? or is it even true.....

... i'll wait to hear what Oda has to say and more info, hopefully.

 

[MacMadame]

Figures 8 and number of skaters on ice. In my days if i recall correctly, there where close to 8 even 10 patterns/skaters on ice, well 6 for sure. I have no idea why 5 instead of 3 is viewed as "dangerous", if each stays on his/her own pattern. This issue is VERY odd to me... Maybe the group practices more than just school-figures in the same session, but 5 being dangerous is still odd.....

I believe these are not figure sessions. They are freestyle sessions where people also do patterns. So there are people whizzing around practicing jumps and programs and such.

I know when I was skating, there was never more than 1 or 2 people working on patterns on a session and, if it was a busy session, there were none. It was just too crazy otherwise.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I believe these are not figure sessions. They are freestyle sessions where people also do patterns. So there are people whizzing around practicing jumps and programs and such.

I know when I was skating, there was never more than 1 or 2 people working on patterns on a session and, if it was a busy session, there were none. It was just too crazy otherwise.

That makes sense if it includes freestyle. The report above called these sessions 'figure-8 training", so i had to stick to that description.

 

[TAHbKA]

Satoko Miyahara is a natural clockwise jumper but was instructed to jump counter-clockwise, based on what I've read. Is this true, and who was responsible for doing this? I find forcing skaters to jump and/or spin in an unnatural way to be just as disgusting as all of the body-shaming/starving that allegedly happens in this sport.

I think you are exaggerating by at least a mile
AFAIK Radionova is a clock wise jumper as well and, perhaps, Sotnikova. Don't recall those two having problems with their jumps.
I guess all the left handed violin/cello players are body shamed? Classical guitar players? What about the speed skaters? Should they hold the competitions both directions or will we call it bodyshaming as well?

You have to take into an account most of the skaters begin skating long before they begin writing, some of them can't even really tell left from right at that age.
A friend's kid does gymnastics, she is left handed. The coach shows everything with the right hand and to the counter clockwise direction. If the kid wants to do things to the opposite direction and with the left hand she has to figure herself how it's done. Tough, but you can't expect the coach to learn all of the sudden how to do things with her left hand (ribbon in their case) and teach it that way.

 

[denise3lz]

Kansai University's announcement is investigation report of background and how Kansai University handled it.
It was not about presence or absence of harassment.

 

[Bonjour Sherry]

I think you are exaggerating by at least a mile
AFAIK Radionova is a clock wise jumper as well and, perhaps, Sotnikova. Don't recall those two having problems with their jumps.
I guess all the left handed violin/cello players are body shamed? Classical guitar players? What about the speed skaters? Should they hold the competitions both directions or will we call it bodyshaming as well?

You have to take into an account most of the skaters begin skating long before they begin writing, some of them can't even really tell left from right at that age.
A friend's kid does gymnastics, she is left handed. The coach shows everything with the right hand and to the counter clockwise direction. If the kid wants to do things to the opposite direction and with the left hand she has to figure herself how it's done. Tough, but you can't expect the coach to learn all of the sudden how to do things with her left hand (ribbon in their case) and teach it that way.

Are Radionova and Sotnikova clockwise jumpers but jump counter clockwise in competition?

While I believe having the coach having to jump in both directions is unreasonable (the skater can choose to jump their natural direction), I don't otherwise I agree with you.

 

[VGThuy]

Since we’re sort of on the topic, I always thought your dominant hand determined what direction you spin, jump, skate, but Maia Shibutani said she’s right-handed but naturally spins clockwise. I wonder what is the dominant factor that determines it. Is it one of those things that is unknown but tends to go hand-in-hand with which hand you dominantly use? I used the word “hand” a lot in that last sentence.

@TAHbKA, I think Bonjour Sherry is just stating that in figure skating where direction and rotation is incredibly important, it would be in everyone’s best interest if coaches in Japan started allowing clockwise skaters to actually skate in their natural direction. I know there is a real safety/logistical issue in Japan itself, but I can’t really accept that “nothing” can be done to better serve clockwise skaters. It seems every expert or champion skater-turned-commentator who talks about it when a skater spins in their opposite direction always states how incredibly difficult it is to do that. I can’t help but think a skater who is forced to skate in his/her opposite direction cannot hit their maximum potential and I wonder how many potential competitive skaters may be lost at young ages due to frustration with the inability to adapt.

As far as the difficulty in having a coach teach a clockwise skater, in the US and every other skating country, it seems coaches have no problem being able to adapt to coaching a clockwise skater since it’s pretty much the same technique, just mirrored.