Nobunari Oda: Harassment forced me to quit as Kansai University coach

[overedge]

Much as I love the type of skating she produces and would hate to see the training of her skaters interrupted, I hope that the Japanese fed takes action regarding these statements. I’m not sure what the likelihood of that is though. If it’s anything like feds in other countries, I think very low unfortunately.

Lucinda Ruh described seeing the same sort of thing from the coaches at the rink she trained in when she was in Japan. And that was many years earlier, so if the federation didn't care about it then, they probably wouldn't care about it now

If you didn’t work hard enough, or didn’t do something good enough, you had the consequences. And then the parents would take over off the ice. It was something of a normal occurrence. One was really terrible. I remember going to the rink in the mornings and the evenings, and there was this little café right next to the rink. And so there was a big rink and this smaller rink where we used to do compulsories, and right next to it was this long café. And [the coaches] used to bring this boy, he was about 12, 13, into this café, and the mother would watch, and they’d beat him for the longest time while we were training. And they’d beat him and beat him and he’d be screaming, and we’d try to play the music a little louder so we wouldn’t hear him. And he was shaking. This boy could barely walk straight, he was so shaking every day. And the memory of that, I could barely skate while this was going on because it made me so sick to my stomach. But no one did anything. You know, it happened, and the next day it happened again…

(from http://www.manleywoman.com/episode-52-lucinda-ruh/)

 

[MacMadame]

I'm always surprised when people are surprised about this kind of behaviour. It is, unfortunately, just about everywhere in this sport, the only difference is people are starting to speak up about it a little more now.

I've skated at many rinks where that sort of behavior was rare and/or not tolerated. I don't think it's "just about everywhere". It's more in pockets and generally only with very successful coaches where people are more willing to turn a blind eye.

Who's going after Korpi?

Random morons on the internet mostly.

 

[barbarafan]

Lucinda Ruh described seeing the same sort of thing from the coaches at the rink she trained in when she was in Japan. And that was many years earlier, so if the federation didn't care about it then, they probably wouldn't care about it now



(from http://www.manleywoman.com/episode-52-lucinda-ruh/)

Is it normal that we do not have an angry button on this forum? It makes me sick to think that so many can shrug their shoulders at this. I was going to university at night with the thought of going into social work. That ended after I had my first baby.I knew at that point I would burn out quickly and worse case scenario knowing a child was going home to a potentially sick situation I would be visiting with a gun......In Canada everything is by the book and fair for all so you have to smile sweetly while all the procedures are followed. Some of us are just not cut out for it.

 

[Tinami Amori]

One of Hamada's students: Coach Hamada is so enthusiastic about skating. She is a very tough coach. I was sometimes terrified by her coaching. One day someone was not able to jump well. Coach Hamada yelled at the skater. "Hey!""Why can't you do jumps?" (こら！何で跳べないんだ！) Her shouting voice shook the whole rink. On another day when someone who was going through her puberty lost sharpness in skating, Coach Hamada roared at the skater "You fatso!"(このデブ！）Weight control is important in this sport, so I don't say I can't understand her, that said.....

Someone involved in Kansai University: She was sometimes overbearing enough to kick the rink's boards for controlling her students. Once she grasped hair of her student who couldn't do jumps well and threw the student on the ice.（ジャンプが上手く跳べない子の髪をつかんでリンクに叩きつけたこともある）Due to this type of 'coaching' there was a child(children) who quit training in Kansai Uni's ice rink.

There are few sites posting the original text in Japanese now.

関大スケート部女帝濱田美栄のパワハラ指導方法 : 身体軸ラボ　シーズン2

だが、そんな名コーチには別の一面があった。教え子のひとりが振り返る。「スケートへの思いが強い濱田コーチの指導は非常に厳しく、“怖い”と感じることもありました。うまくジャンプが跳べないと“コラ！”“何で跳べないんだ！”という怒鳴り声がリンク中に響く。成長期

karadajiku.livedoor.blog

織田信成が明かす監督辞任劇の舞台裏 「僕は“関大の女帝”に排除された」（デイリー新潮） - Yahoo!ニュース

フィギュアシーズンの到来を喜ぶファンも、あの不可解な辞任劇には首を傾げたはずだ。突如として「監督」の座を追われてしまった織田信成（32）。その真相は、「関大の女帝」による“排除”に他ならなかった。「 - Yahoo!ニュース(デイリー新潮)

headlines.yahoo.co.jp

and the longer one that includes Oda.

『自分で織田信成さんに関西大学の監督になってくれと頼んだのに追い出した濱田美栄コーチとは？』

週刊新潮に「織田信成激白！僕は関大の女帝に排除された」という記事が載りました。 　織田信成さんと言えば関西大学アイススケート部の監督を辞任されました。最初は織…

ameblo.jp

 

[Tinami Amori]

Eteri looks strict, so people are more willing to believe allegations that she is abusive in some way. Hamada doesn't, so people are more likely to be dismissive of such rumors.

Eteri looks strict and tough, but she NEVER as much as touched her students EVER (except to show a movement). Her max offense is "giving less attention" and "transferring to a lower ranking group" (excluding yelling back and force with Lip and her mother, but that was the norm for Lip and Mother as they came from communal apartment situation where it is standard).

There is an old Russian saying - be afraid of those who smile too much (all the time) - they hide a trick...
And a Chinese proverb - A smiling official kills people.

I wonder if people will now start saying, each time her name comes up or her girls win medals, "Oh, she abuses her students"..

https://66.media.tumblr.com/eb66e015b6c1cb50efe2d53b6cfdb734/tumblr_pmog6iQKfs1uwc1x0o1_1280.jpg

 

[oleada]

Oda is filing a suit against Hamada, requesting compensation (as per Twitter translation and Jacky Wong)

織田信成氏が浜田美栄コーチをハラスメント行為で提訴（産経新聞） - Yahoo!ニュース

フィギュアスケートの２０１０年バンクーバー冬季五輪男子代表の織田信成（のぶなり）氏（３２）が１８日、９月に関西大アイススケート部の監督を辞任したのは、関大所属の女性コーチによるハラスメント行為が原因 - Yahoo!ニュース(産経新聞)

headlines.yahoo.co.jp

 

[binbinwinwin]

English article here: https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20191118/p2a/00m/0na/006000c

 

[rosewood]

Lucinda Ruh described seeing the same sort of thing from the coaches at the rink she trained in when she was in Japan. And that was many years earlier, so if the federation didn't care about it then, they probably wouldn't care about it now



(from http://www.manleywoman.com/episode-52-lucinda-ruh/)

Does it mean Ruh witnessed it in the rink where Mr Sato (her coach at the time) worked? If so, it's Shin Yokohama Skate Center. It's always heartbreaking to hear any child abuse. (((the boy & Ruh)))

When there are/were bad culture in the rink or in this sport as a big picture, it should be corrected. I believe lots of improvements or at least efforts were made between today and a few decades ago when Ruh witnessed the sad scene. I think Oda's case is one of them. When he tried to make good changes to the outdated culture in Kansai Uni's rink, he got a furious backlash from Hamada. It was the point of this incident.

If what he said in the magazine article mentioned earlier on this thread is true, I agree with his proposals. 1) Hamada's team should not break the rule that was made by Hamada herself. (Since there are 3 teams in Kansai Uni's rink (basically very crowded), the maximum number of skaters one coach can teach at a time is 3 skaters to keep skaters safe. One of the coaches from Hamada's team was teaching 5 students at a time. Oda felt it was dangerous and asked Hamada not to do that again but Hamada got Mad saying "You know nothing.") 2) Student skaters should be given enough time to take their classes as well as to have lunch. (Oda changed the daily training schedule of the rink so that students can go to school as well as kids from elementary/Jr high schools can have lunch before they start training. Once other coaches agreed with the change during a meeting. But later Hamada got frustrated with the new schedule and eventually she changed the schedules in her favor.) *Oda was preparing for proposing club rule changes regarding penalties for Kansai Uni students who couldn't get enough credits, but he eventually gave it up since he got too ill mentally and physically.

We need to hear from both sides. Today Kansai Uni announced a comment that they are not informed of the detail of the suit yet so they can't say anything at this point, and they are very sorry this happened during the skating season when their skaters are training hard to prepare for competitions. I had an impression that Kansai Uni is standing on Hamada's side. As far as I saw, three TV programs did live broadcasting of Oda's press conference today. During one of the programs, MC said they asked a comment from Hamada through Kansai Uni, but they hadn't got any answer from them. So, we'll hear from Hamada's side sooner or later.

I wish this will end up with improving the culture in Kansai Uni's rink in any way.

 

[overedge]

@rosewood I don't think that in the interview Ruh named the rink where she saw this abuse. She might mention the name in her book: https://www.amazon.ca/Frozen-Teardrop-Tragedy-Triumph-Skatings/dp/1590792130

 

[ks777]

This reminds me of Fumie Suguri and Shizuka Arakawa.

 

[letsskate]

This reminds me of Fumie Suguri and Shizuka Arakawa.

What happened between them?

 

[letsskate]

I'm surprised that in the english article, it says Hamada is 60 years old! She looks in the 40s to me.

 

[Willin]

TBH this whole thing makes me love Oda more - especially in the article where he says this is about revealing abuse in the figure skating world. Even if he doesn't end up talking about the abuse of athletes, talking about the abusive nature of coaching and rink politics is an important thing to bring to light. The situation Oda was in was not one that will ruin him financially by any means (although it might ruin his reputation as a coach among professional circles), but it's one that leave many less well off coaches struggling financially at many rinks around the world, and I think that's an important decision to have.

 

[ks777]

What happened between them?

Fumie hated Shizuka.

 

[ks777]

Oda suing Hamada is weird. She wasn't his boss and he wasn't her boss either.. so how can he sue her? So if I had someone I don't like and refuse to talk to her/him, and if I bad mouth behind her/his back, would I get sued??

 

[Willin]

@ks777 From my understanding he's suing because she tried to damage his reputation (spreading gossip/bad mouthing him) in a way that essentially forced him out of his job and may or may not prevent him from getting future coaching jobs. You don't have to be anyone's boss to do that - plenty of non-bosses are sued for libel or harassment related to rumor spreading limiting economic opportunity.

 

[Tinami Amori]

2) Student skaters should be given enough time to take their classes as well as to have lunch. (Oda changed the daily training schedule of the rink so that students can go to school as well as kids from elementary/Jr high schools can have lunch before they start training.

Not getting into the legal issues, just want to say, that i am very proud of Oda for standing for education. Skaters who are part of the "educational institution system" must at least get basic education and have a passing grade. Not 5's or 4's (A's and B's) but at least a passing grade.

Sport goes away quickly, education stays for life and is one's future. Sport trains your muscles, education trains your brains. Brains are more important than muscles. there is not ifs and buts about it.

 

[Vagabond]

In the United States, someone in Oda's position might be able to bring an action before the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission against his employer and other employees for maintaining a hostile work environment if the actions of the other employees were discriminatory in nature. I have no idea whether there is anything comparable under Japanese law.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I think he’s asking for too little...

 

[Tinami Amori]

I read as much as i could find in Japanese (google-translate) and other publications. I fully support Oda if his goal is to ensure minimal education standards, and his right to pursue the harassment issue in court.

I wish he would have waited after the Worlds, or at least GPF. Hamada is training Japan's prospective winners/medalists, it benefits the whole country. The legal issues may take away from her ability and time to train them properly. This is is not "life/death/injury" situation and a lawsuit if started 3-4 months later would not be handled any differently.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I wish he would have waited after the Worlds, or at least GPF. Hamada is training Japan's prospective winners/medalists, it benefits the whole country. The legal issues may take away from her ability and time to train them properly. This is is not "life/death/injury" situation and a lawsuit if started 3-4 months later would not be handled any differently.

Maybe there is a statute of limitations? Or perhaps his mental health and career prospects are more important to him than competitions. This seems reasonable.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Maybe there is a statute of limitations? Or perhaps his mental health and career prospects are more important to him than competitions. This seems reasonable.

maybe. but Kihira is skating in a few days, and few weeks later is a GPF... not sure if waiting few weeks make a difference. anyhooo...... i am on his side at present, in his claims.

 

[starrynight]

With any kind of claim like this, the faster you bring it, the better. It makes investigations and enquiries so much easier. The longer you wait, the harder it is to find people, people forget etc etc etc

 

[CaliSteve]

There is an old Russian saying - be afraid of those who smile too much (all the time) - they hide a trick...
And a Chinese proverb - A smiling official kills people.

There is another saying, "The face of a Buddha and the heart of a Scorpio".

 

[CaliSteve]

Oda suing Hamada is weird. She wasn't his boss and he wasn't her boss either.. so how can he sue her? So if I had someone I don't like and refuse to talk to her/him, and if I bad mouth behind her/his back, would I get sued??

Im wondering why he is also not suing the university, which I find odd.

 

[CaliSteve]

This reminds me of Fumie Suguri and Shizuka Arakawa.

What happened to them?

 

[Tinami Amori]

What happened to them?

- I don't think the Oda/Hamada situation is anywhere close to Fumie Suguri and Shizuka Arakawa's interactions..

There were a lot of discussions about "Fumie and etc.." on english-language japanese chats.

• Fumie Suguri and Shizuka Arakawa's situation is pretty much skaters' rivalry and one making "comments".
• Suguri in 2000's felt that every other top Japanese girl was her "rival", especially the younger ones, as Suguri was going into her late 20's. She displayed a lot of subtle and not so subtle "hostility" towards Ando, Mao, Arakawa and others; felt entitled to get Int'l assignments over other girls; critiqued Asada on TV while commenting on the event, acted bitter when Arakawa won Olys in Turin; acted restless and obsessed with wining over all her rivals and it showed in her behavior towards them..
• She would not leave the competitive circuit in a timely and respectable manner, was getting more and more frustrated with "younger girls" as she herself pushed into 30's and showed more "thinly veiled" hostility, by making catty remarks, not directly, but everyone knew "what it is about", etc..

Instead of me recapping what i read years ago, here is one of the Japanese-english chats. Read the whole page, from top to bottom, it will describe the whole "Fumie" situation.

If you just want to skip to Suguri/Arakawa part, go to the middle of the page, post by
PochinkoPotanko @Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:24 am, and all below. There are many details.

Fumie Suguri

I really like fumie suguri as a skater, she has skated to some magnificent programs, i always will remember. I just wonder if she really wants to compete, why

maoasada.forumotion.net

 

[CaliSteve]

- I don't think the Oda/Hamada situation is anywhere close to Fumie Suguri and Shizuka Arakawa's interactions..

There were a lot of discussions about "Fumie and etc.." on english-language japanese chats.

• Fumie Suguri and Shizuka Arakawa's situation is pretty much skaters' rivalry and one making "comments".
• Suguri in 2000's felt that every other top Japanese girl was her "rival", especially the younger ones, as Suguri was going into her late 20's. She displayed a lot of subtle and not so subtle "hostility" towards Ando, Mao, Arakawa and others; felt entitled to get Int'l assignments over other girls; critiqued Asada on TV while commenting on the event, acted bitter when Arakawa won Olys in Turin; acted restless and obsessed with wining over all her rivals and it showed in her behavior towards them..
• She would not leave the competitive circuit in a timely and respectable manner, was getting more and more frustrated with "younger girls" as she herself pushed into 30's and showed more "thinly veiled" hostility, by making catty remarks, not directly, but everyone knew "what it is about", etc..

Instead of me recapping what i read years ago, here is one of the Japanese-english chats. Read the whole page, from top to bottom, it will describe the whole "Fumie" situation.

If you just want to skip to Suguri/Arakawa part, go to the middle of the page, post by
PochinkoPotanko @Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:24 am, and all below. There are many details.

Fumie Suguri

I really like fumie suguri as a skater, she has skated to some magnificent programs, i always will remember. I just wonder if she really wants to compete, why

maoasada.forumotion.net

Yikes!

Thanks for the recap.

 

[Tavi]

In the United States, someone in Oda's position might be able to bring an action before the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission against his employer and other employees for maintaining a hostile work environment if the actions of the other employees were discriminatory in nature. I have no idea whether there is anything comparable under Japanese law.

Maybe. In the US, in you would have to prove that you were harassed because of your membership in a protected class - ie race, religion, sex, disability, etc.

If his reputation is ruined because of things she said about him defamation per se is a possibility, but as he’s a public figure the bar could be high.

 

[CaliSteve]

Maybe. In the US, in you would have to prove that you were harassed because of your membership in a protected class - ie race, religion, sex, disability, etc.

If his reputation is ruined because of things she said about him defamation per se is a possibility, but as he’s a public figure the bar could be high.

A friend who is lives in Japan told me that Oda has a case. Apparently, you have to make your case before you can file a lawsuit. Also, someone mentioned to me that Mie is not well-liked in the Japanese skating community. Don't know if it's true or not, nor did they give me any reason for the dislike.