News and updates à la Française, part trois

[aftershocks]

J/C need to prove they're not afraid of competing against the best.

You are saying this about a team who slam-dunked all last season, aside from Worlds, winning every comp they entered including GPF and Euros. Yes, J/C had a mishap in the warm-up and subsequent mistakes in their sp at Worlds. Still they came back with a stellar fp to take small medal bronze in the fp. Several teams in front of them in the final results, they had beaten or had higher scores than throughout the season. And the winning team at Worlds, Sui/Han, have not competed for the past 3 seasons in the Fall GP due to Sui's injury rehab.

James/Cipres have brought excitement and creativity to pairs skating over the past three seasons. Below is an excerpt from the recent article Sylvia linked in post #466 above. Obviously, this interview took place before J/C's decision to compete through Olympics and Worlds 2022:

"With or without a world title, James and Ciprès have left their mark on the sport in more ways than one. Their costume and music selections have had a clear influence on the skating world.

'From Olympics till today I’ve never seen as many catsuits as I’ve seen this year,' James said. 'I feel everyone has turned to catsuits now and trying to be more modern in the choices of music. I think it’s an honour ..."

And the below article appeared during the lead-in to the 2018 Olympics:

Pairs glide into new era with Disturbed dance moves

Roll over Beethoven and prepare to be Disturbed.

www.reuters.com

The skating community recognizes the influence J/C have had, initially evidenced by their 2017 Euros breakthrough performances, after which they moved to a new level and have never looked back. I love that they have continued to challenge themselves. They epitomize the exciting trend of edgy, outside-the-box pairs programs impacted by cross-fertilization from ice dance via collaboration with innovative ice dance choreographers.

 

[aftershocks]

... there might be some tidbits about Kévin...

Yes, Flett asked questions about Kevin, and Silvia gave us some wonderful tidbits.

 

[MsZem]

It sounds like music they've skated to about 87 times already. I bet they could take choreography from any previous free dance and put it over top of this music and it would fit.

This reads like arguments that have been made more than 87 times already. I bet people will repeat the same points from any previous seasons and make them no matter what music (or slam poetry) P/C choose and think that they fit.

 

[nimi]

I was trying to find videos of Kévin's programs from Masters de Patinage on the tube sites but no such luck - anybody got links to share?

PapCiz vids have already been shared and discussed on multiple threads, here are a couple of others I found on YT:
Laurine SP & Laurine FS
Adrien Tesson SP
Romain Ponsart SP

This was Romain's comeback after he had to withdraw from the French Nats because of a back injury and... yikes. I don't know what his injury recovery and training process has been like and what kind of expectations he had other than just testing his new programs in a competitive setting, but finishing 7th in this field (100+ points behind Aymoz) is just a brutal way to start a season. However, assuming the "gotta have a quad to go to Euros" policy is still in place, I'd still consider Romain to be the frontrunner for the 3rd spot. Looking at the protocols, the only guys not named Kévin or Romain to attempt a quad were:

• Adrien Tesson (2nd), whose 4T<< in the FS got him mostly -5GOEs
• Luc Economides (3rd), who fell on his 4T< in the FS
• Landry Le May (4th), who rotated but fell on a 4S in the SP and had a bad landing on his 4S< in the FS

Adam didn't skate in this event but he landed 3 cleanish quads (two 4T+2T combos and a 4S) in his JGP FS last weekend (protocol). He struggled with his 3A, though, and didn't get credit for his step sequence(?!?), so he only got 8th place there.

 

[Jeschke]

"With or without a world title, James and Ciprès have left their mark on the sport in more ways than one. Their costume and music selections have had a clear influence on the skating world.
'From Olympics till today I’ve never seen as many catsuits as I’ve seen this year,' James said. 'I feel everyone has turned to catsuits now and trying to be more modern in the choices of music. I think it’s an honour ..."

Long before J/C rocked the catsuit and different music selection, there was Aliona rocking both.
Just sayin'.

Personally I would give them no credit at all having had any influence on actual pair skating to be honest.
Imho they had one really good charismatic program (which they kept too long), and 2 more good but almost similar mood-wise. They are stuck in one direction and (to date) fail to amaze in others for me.

 

[Orm Irian]

Those two programs, even with the mistakes in the FS, are probably the best I've seen Laurine skate for a long time - something's changed or consolidated in her technique and she looks very collected in a way that she didn't before. I mistook her 3Lz3T in the FS for a 3T3T at first, not just because the camera was far away but because I've never seen her 3Lz3T look that neat and easy.

She wouldn't get those scores for either program internationally, of course - the 3T3T< in the SP would be into negative GOE just to start with - but working with Lorenzo Magri clearly agrees with her, plus I'm wondering if she's been able to avoid injury for a while. If she can maintain or build on this through the season she could have another very good placement at Euros, touch wood.

 

[MsZem]

Long before J/C rocked the catsuit and different music selection, there was Aliona rocking both.
Just sayin'.

Personally I would give them no credit at all having had any influence on actual pair skating to be honest.
Imho they had one really good charismatic program (which they kept too long), and 2 more good but almost similar mood-wise. They are stuck in one direction and (to date) fail to amaze in others for me.

I like J/C a lot more than you do; I think they have developed (with the help of their coaching/choreo team) a distinctive style, and highlighted the importance of playing to your strengths.

But as you note, Aljona did both catsuits and original music choices before Vanessa James had even switched to pairs (and before you could use music with lyrics). Volosozhar, Stolbova and Duhamel wore catsuits, Slutskaya and Kostner wore them - this is not unique to Vanessa James, fabulous as she looks in one.

 

[aftershocks]

Long before J/C rocked the catsuit and different music selection, there was Aliona rocking both. Just sayin'.

Personally I would give them no credit at all having had any influence on actual pair skating to be honest.
Imho they had one really good charismatic program (which they kept too long), and 2 more good but almost similar mood-wise. They are stuck in one direction and (to date) fail to amaze in others for me.

^^ To each their own views. C'est la vie. Everyone in skating who has been influenced by J/C's programs (whether or not they freely admit or acknowledge) surely understand that skating is about inspiration, emulation, and finding something new and unique within oneself to build upon influential borrowed ideas, themes and movement styles.

Pairs skating has certainly been invigorated by the cross-fertilization that has been ongoing between ice dance and pairs. Ice dance borrowed from pairs, and now we see the opposite trend to great effect. I find it exciting. The trend has been epitomized in the skating of J/C in recent years, and in some of the programs of Savchenko/Massot that we saw when they were competing. The inspirations and emulations are constantly evolving. Some of what J/C's choreographers have put together also pull from moves that have been done previously in pairs skating and updated in unique ways. Many of the movement ideas that Julie Marcotte created that began to catch on years ago led to emulations that we are still seeing here and there. It's about taking from new and old ideas, and then building and adding to those ideas with fresh takes.

So what about catsuits. No one said Vanessa invented them. She certainly enlivened and freshened the way we see them in the designs she rocks that have been skillfully created for her. As a result, other designers and skaters have been inspired. Well before Aljona and other skaters in recent years, there was of course, Debi Thomas rocking her unexpected jumpsuit in 1988. And then the sport banned catsuits/jumpsuits for ladies for a period of time.

When I think of Aljona's contributions to skating, catsuits are not the first thing that come to my mind. Aljona wore some interesting ones, but it's more about her fierce determination, fearlessness and creativity than it is about her costumes. The pink panther costume was more about expressing the character of that program than it was about donning a catsuit.

 

[aftershocks]

Volosozhar, Stolbova and Duhamel wore catsuits, Slutskaya and Kostner wore them - this is not unique to Vanessa James, fabulous as she looks in one.

Cool. But among all of these you mention, Vanessa's are more memorable. Aside from Kostner, I can't even remember the other skaters you mention wearing catsuits. However, among all, it would be Vanessa and Stolbova who rock everything they wear the sexiest. For Stolbova, I do not immediately think of catsuits, I think of the sexy, hot outfit she sizzled in skating to I Put a Spell on You! Damn straight!

Come on now, though. Give it up already: Vanessa James stuns in catsuits and she was influential in re-starting a trend in new and different ways because of the sexy, knockout styling and cool way her suits fit her buff figure and enhance her lines. Even the uniquely different sp costume Guillaume Cizeron designed for Vanessa last season is being emulated in the design created for Peng Cheng's new sp this season with different colors and inspired tweaks. If you can't see this, it don't matter. Tough cookies. Who cares.

I mean seriously peeps, 'nuff said!

 

[ManiDani]

Even the uniquely different sp costume Guillaume Cizeron designed for Vanessa last season is being emulated in the design created for Peng Cheng's new sp this season with different colors and inspired tweaks.

Peng’s costume is a mashup of two of the costumes used in Cirque Du Soleil’s Algeria. The colors, corseting, and bling all are directly inspired from the music she is skating to.

 

[MsZem]

Cool. But among all of these you mention, Vanessa's are more memorable.

More memorable to you, maybe. The rest of us will never forget Aljona's Pink Panther costume.

I mean seriously peeps, 'nuff said!

Oh dear, coming from you that's special

 

[aftershocks]

Peng’s costume is a mashup of two of the costumes used in Cirque Du Soleil’s Algeria. The colors, corseting, and bling all are directly inspired from the music she is skating to.

Yep, and influences abound and overlap, eh. There's nothing new under the sun. For all we know, Guillaume was influenced by Cirque costuming along with other theatrical performance influences, combined with his own design vision to create the outfit for Vanessa's sp last season.

From what I see visually, Peng's costume obviously took inspiration from Alegria, because that's what they are skating to (particularly in the corseting detail). Still, Peng's costume is similar in a number of ways to Guillaume's design for Vanessa, whether or not the influence was directly or indirectly inspired, consciously or unconsciously. We are always being influenced in this world whether or not we realize how or why. Skating costumes can't help but be mashups from a variety of influences.

Cheng PENG and Yang JIN - New Short Program

www.youtube.com

Vanessa James / Morgan Cipres FRA SP 2018 Skate Canada SporTV

www.youtube.com

 

[nimi]

If people want to argue with @aftershocks about Aljona and Peng and catsuits and who influenced whom, may I suggest taking it to Pairs discussion thread, or any of the other threads where @aftershocks has been having this discussion with various people? (I'm getting some serious déjà vu here...)

In case anybody here is interested in French guys doing quads and somehow getting their step sequence invalidated, here's Adam's FS from Zagreb that I mentioned earlier.

Adam Siao Him Fa (FRA) | Men Free Skating | Zagreb 2019

Visit https://isu.org/JuniorGrandPrix for more information on the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating. MEN FREE SKATE ORDER 17:00:00 - 17:06:00 Warm-Up G...

www.youtube.com

 

[MsZem]

Joubert's hair

 

[nimi]

Joubert's hair

OTOH I hear that Aymoz is brunette again, so I guess it balances out?

 

[aftershocks]

More memorable to you, maybe. The rest of us will never forget Aljona's Pink Panther costume.


Oh dear, coming from you that's special

Read more carefully. I quoted and was referencing your mention of Volosozhar, Slutskaya, Stolbova, Kostner and Duhamel, when I said 'of those you mention who've worn catsuits, Vanessa's are more memorable.' I also said whoever doesn't think so or doesn't get it, tough cookies, who cares!

I also said that I do not think of catsuits first when I think of Aljona's contributions to skating. That doesn't mean her Pink Panther costume isn't memorable. But for me it's not memorable for being a catsuit, it's memorable because it was about expressing the character and theme of that program. With Savchenko/Szolkowy/Steuer, it was always about innovation and pushing the envelope. They never rested on their laurels, nor does the sport tend to allow such leisure from anyone who's intent on winning and being the best.

Whether or not you think my utterances are special, for whatever reason, it's neither here nor there. No matter what any of us think or say on here, life goes on and figure skating rolls on... Wherever it all ends up nobody knows. That's why we watch.

 

[MsZem]

OTOH I hear that Aymoz is brunette again, so I guess it balances out?

I hope Joubert will follow in Aymoz's footsteps sooner rather than later, then.

 

[kirkbiggestfan]

I hope Joubert will follow in Aymoz's footsteps sooner rather than later, then.

Midlife crisis.

 

[Sylvia]

I was trying to find videos of Kévin's programs from Masters de Patinage on the tube sites but no such luck - anybody got links to share?

Aymoz's SP starts around the 1 hour 12 minute mark in the replay video: https://vimeo.com/363137842

His FS at 1 hour 20 min. mark: https://vimeo.com/user94128865

 

[Orm Irian]

Hamon/Strekalin had a much better start at Finlandia last night than they did on the JGP - a clean skate, if a bit tentative at times, and if I'm remembering the numbers right, they got the TES minimums for the short for both Euros and Worlds. Denys is still wearing his wrist brace, which is worrying for him but may be helping them both to feel more secure in the lifts. Wishing them a good skate in the free as well!

 

[Orm Irian]

Cleo and Denys now have their Euros and Worlds TES minimums for the free skate too. A couple of mistakes including a freak slip for Cleo in the choreo sequence, but a good skate all around.

 

[Sylvia]

Worlds 2020 minimums for pairs are 27 / 44:

Cleo HAMON / Denys STREKALIN FRA at 2019 Finlandia Trophy: 29.73 / 48.10

They won their senior international debut at Volvo Open Cup last year and got both minimums there but only 2 other French pairs competed and so TES minimums weren't counted? http://www.kristalice.lv/Results/Volvo37th/CAT003RS.HTM

 

[Orm Irian]

They won their senior international debut at Volvo Open Cup last year and got both minimums there but only 2 other French pairs competed and so TES minimums weren't counted? http://www.kristalice.lv/Results/Volvo37th/CAT003RS.HTM

Yes - I seem to recall they petitioned to have them recognised anyway* (not sure about the reason for the petition though, maybe late withdrawals of teams from other countries?), but it wasn't granted.

*Or more accurately the FFSG petitioned.

 

[Jeschke]

Souquet(-Basiege) now with double-name?

http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00106270.htm

What happened here? Marriage?

 

[nimi]

Souquet(-Basiege) now with double-name?

http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00106270.htm

What happened here? Marriage?

According to his Wikipedia entry, "[h]is surname also appears as Souquet-Basiege", and his use of the double-name goes at least as far back as 2015, according to the references given. (No idea why he's now changed it in his ISU bio, though.)

 

[Orm Irian]

Laurine has had to withdraw from Internationaux de France due to injury.

 

[nimi]

For those who can read French: somebody on twitter shared a couple of Kévin articles plus a Team France press conference write-up (featuring a pretty funny comment from Papadakis)

Ludovic LP on Twitter

“Enfin pu lire l'interview dans Le DL du jour. 😅 Espérons que Kévin puisse confirmer ce très bon début de saison dès ce week-end en #GPFigure. Il en a les capacités en tout cas. 💪 Et on sera tous derrière lui pour le soutenir ! 🇨🇵✨ #IFP2019”

twitter.com

Ludovic LP on Twitter

“[Revue de Presse ⛸️] Le local de l'étape se voit consacrer un article dans L'Équipe du jour tandis que les membres d'une Équipe de France à deux vitesses dévoilent leurs ambitions pour ce week-end dans le DL. 🇨🇵 #IFP2019”

twitter.com

 

[Sylvia]

Another article in French (interview with Didier Gailhaguet):

L’INVITÉ SPORTIF / PATINAGE ARTISTIQUE. Didier Gailhaguet (président de la FFSG) : « D’autres villes françaises sont intéressées par les Internationaux de France »

Grenoble accueille pour la troisième année consécutive les Internationaux de France de patinage qui débutent ce vendredi après-midi.

www.ledauphine.com

 

[kittyjake5]

Nice article and interview with Brian Joubert!

https://europeonice.com/2019/12/03/brian-joubert-no-limits-in-new-coaching-career/

 

[MsZem]

Nice article and interview with Brian Joubert!

https://europeonice.com/2019/12/03/brian-joubert-no-limits-in-new-coaching-career/

Other than the tragic hair situation, that was really great, especially the final quote:

To bring a student, guy or girl, to the top level in the world. That’s my goal, my dream. I’m still a young coach. For now, if I just can help someone to be world champion even if I’m not here when he’s world champion I will be happy

I don't know if Joubert will always feel this way, but it seems like a good approach for a coach who is still in the early stages of his career.