New Gracie Gold Interview About 2016 World Championships and Mental Health

[bardtoob]

I think it was understood that IF Gracie skated clean she would have won 2016 Worlds. Gracie was 4th at 2015 Worlds, and Tuktamysheva was not there in 2016.

Generally speaking, Gracie did have the best jump technique and generally deserved high GOEs on her elements, she had good skating skills and the best programs in 2016. Medvedeva had small jumps and an edge problem with her 3Lz, regardless of the calls; I don't remember if her program had gimmicky vocals that years. Satoko had extremely small jumps, although her skating skills were great. Pogorilaya and Wagner were really inconsistent, so I don't think "predicting a win" from them was realistic. Radionova was in a steady decay but somehow still willed herself to stay on her feet.

FWIW I think Pogorilaya outskated Medvedeva that competition and should have won 2016 Worlds based on the actual performances. Her jumps were much bigger and her programs were much more mature.

I feel like Medvedeva had some technical issues that only die hard fans and skaters could recognize, and they were not called by the technical callers. This resulted in wins until she was dumped, and then all of a sudden her protocols looked like she could barely move across the ice.

 

[UGG]

I have often wondered if Ashley’s performance and silver had any mental affect on Gracie…like “that was supposed to be me” . I can’t imagine she would have gone into this depression if she had been on the podium also…for example if she won bronze as opposed to being 4th. Or if Ashley didn’t win a medal and she was 2nd instead.

 

[Coco]

I think Gracie had a higher base value than Evgenia, so it wasn't a crazy expectation.

 

[antmanb]

Given the comments she's made about Worlds 2016 since, she's really convinced that she was supposed to win the gold there, which surprises me since from an outsider's view, Medvedeva was the favorite. I'm convinced the US was ready to pull a Sochi to gift Gold the gold if she stayed on her feet.

Once again when people say things like this i wonder how is the hosting nation supposed to pull this gift off? Is the USFSA politiking with the specific judges/tech panel in the event?

The judges at the time were anonymised so no-one would know which judges gave which scores. The judges for the LP are here: https://results.isu.org/results/season1516/wc2016/SEG004OF.HTM

All under the ISU flag but running down the list they were from the following countries:

Tech Panel
Tech controller - Switzerland
Tech assistant - Finland
Assistant Tech Specialist - Ukraine

Judges
Ukraine
France
South Korea
Netherlands
Czech Republic
Finland
Canada
Lithuania
Japan

No Russian or American on the judging or tech panel, so where was the gift meant to come from? Better calling for Gracie from the panel, better GOE/PCS from the mixed panel?

 

[tony]

Once again when people say things like this i wonder how is the hosting nation supposed to pull this gift off? Is the USFSA politiking with the specific judges/tech panel in the event?

The judges at the time were anonymised so no-one would know which judges gave which scores. The judges for the LP are here: https://results.isu.org/results/season1516/wc2016/SEG004OF.HTM

All under the ISU flag but running down the list they were from the following countries:

Tech Panel
Tech controller - Switzerland
Tech assistant - Finland
Assistant Tech Specialist - Ukraine

Judges
Ukraine
France
South Korea
Netherlands
Czech Republic
Finland
Canada
Lithuania
Japan

No Russian or American on the judging or tech panel, so where was the gift meant to come from? Better calling for Gracie from the panel, better GOE/PCS from the mixed panel?

But then again, Ashley got some very generous tech panel calls and GOE/PCS to get silver, and we know how the short went.

 

[antmanb]

But then again, Ashley got some very generous tech panel calls and GOE/PCS to get silver, and we know how the short went.

Then the same question can be asked. If that was the "gift" then how did it come about? How did the mixed tech panel, or mixed judging panel come up uniformly with inflated marks/better calling resulting in a better position that what was put out on the ice? If the gift was meant for Gracie who was in 1st going into the LP how did the judges get the messages that the gift that was intended for Gracie now went to Ashley?

Getting all the moving parts to work correctly all while the judging was anonymous always seems like a really far fetched conspiracy theory to me and in this case particularly so given how the skating actually went.

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

So I've watched it. I was hoping for more context to the "I was supposed to win" but didn't get it. I don't remember her being the favorite to win so I wonder how much was coming from her team and how much from her. But without context, it's hard to tell.

I think it is after the short many were hyping her up for the win. Sure before worlds Medvedeva was the favorite by far, but she had a so so short program where she had to improvise to come up with a sort of cleanish skate and was 3rd, not even top Russian. So at that point Gold became the favorite between short and long program.

 

[tony]

Then the same question can be asked. If that was the "gift" then how did it come about? How did the mixed tech panel, or mixed judging panel come up uniformly with inflated marks/better calling resulting in a better position that what was put out on the ice? If the gift was meant for Gracie who was in 1st going into the LP how did the judges get the messages that the gift that was intended for Gracie now went to Ashley?

Getting all the moving parts to work correctly all while the judging was anonymous always seems like a really far fetched conspiracy theory to me and in this case particularly so given how the skating actually went.

I wouldn't necessarily say that a fix was in or that the tech panel and judges were all in alignment, but I think sometimes audience excitement does wonders for the PCS and the scoring of the program overall. Also, Gracie skated right before Ashley and went into 3rd place before Ashley skated (last), so an American was going to be on the podium either way but I always questioned a lot of Ashley's jumps way prior to that event and this was no different. I do think she got away with a lot of generous calls/GOEs even having two <. I mean, one judge even gave her two 10's in PCS and there were a lot of 9.5 and 9.75 IIRC. Based on all of that (especially the higher PCS than Medvedeva), I do think Gracie could've pulled it off if she repeated Nationals. She had almost 3 points to work with after the short, too (2 of which came from PCS).

In the same light, I always wondered whether Sotnikova's SP scores in Sochi would've been what they were if she skated before Lipnitskaia.

 

[soogar]

It's happening to the women who competed at the Olympics for gymnastics in 2021 for Team USA. People are ripping on them for what they are putting out in collegiate gymnastics, not understanding that elite and college gymnastics are TOTALLY different sports. It's really sad.

I thought they were doing well in the transition. Collegiate gymnastics is all about execution. Otherwise teams without former Olympians would be at a huge disadvantage. Sorry to hijack thread but everyone looks so happy competing for their schools, it doesn't seem as if they are being criticized.

 

[bardtoob]

I do think she got away with a lot of generous calls/GOEs even having two <. I mean, one judge even gave her two 10's in PCS and there were a lot of 9.5 and 9.75 IIRC.

PCS after Sochi was wacky. I don't know that Wagner deserved these marks, but I also think the entire scale for the final flight was completely off.

To this day, I don't know how some of the best skaters get 9.25-10.0. PCS should usually be between 7-9 except for Hanyu, Chan, Denis Ten.

At best, all of Eteri's skaters should max out at 9.25 because, while they have loads of field moves, their edges are what they are for somebody as small as they are with very little muscle (compared to Tonya Harding, Trixie Schuba, etc.). The stronger Japanese ladies probably should be scoring higher than Eteri's ladies, but probably not enough to change the competition results.

 

[MacMadame]

I think sometimes audience excitement does wonders for the PCS and the scoring of the program overall.

This is really what the "home ice" advantage consists of IMO. It's not just "oh that athlete is from here so give them higher scores" because most judges wouldn't do it, IMO.

 

[Maximillian]

This is really what the "home ice" advantage consists of IMO. It's not just "oh that athlete is from here so give them higher scores" because most judges wouldn't do it, IMO.

It's true, judges are only human and no one likes to go against a roaring crowd, so I think in the excitement of the moment a home skater's GOEs and PCS's can escalate perhaps more than normal.

 

[MacMadame]

It's true, judges are only human and no one likes to go against a roaring crowd, so I think in the excitement of the moment a home skater's GOEs and PCS's can escalate perhaps more than normal.

Or they even might feel the same way as the crowd. Or the crowd may have intensified what they were feeling since feelings can be impacted by the feelings of others (sort of like they are contagious).

 

[carriecmu0503]

I thought they were doing well in the transition. Collegiate gymnastics is all about execution. Otherwise teams without former Olympians would be at a huge disadvantage. Sorry to hijack thread but everyone looks so happy competing for their schools, it doesn't seem as if they are being criticized.

You understand the difference between college and elite gymnastics, which is great! Unfortunately, many people don't. On many of the YouTube videos of the Olympic-turned college gymnast routines, the gymnasts are getting ripped for "dumbing down" their routines. They are getting criticized for lunging out of passes on floor, which while a deduction in elite, is totally normal in college. People need to understand that elite gymnast only compete about 4-5 times a year, while college gymnasts compete every weekend for 4-5 months. Such different sports.

 

[Skibean]

Count me in as one that absolutely believes had Gracie kept it together and skated clean should have won. She was the better overall skater at that time. However, I saw the look on her face and her body language and knew she wasn’t going to skate her best. It was almost like watching a panic attack happening.

 

[GullyGirl84]

I always respected how Gracie said point blank to the Skating Lesson in 2015 that she wanted to win 2016 worlds, and I was sad for her the next season when she said that she regretted ever saying that. Also, I wish that someone would offer her a book deal!

 

[AxelAnnie]

PCS after Sochi was wacky. I don't know that Wagner deserved these marks, but I also think the entire scale for the final flight was completely off.

To this day, I don't know how some of the best skaters get 9.25-10.0. PCS should usually be between 7-9 except for Hanyu, Chan, Denis Ten.

At best, all of Eteri's skaters should max out at 9.25 because, while they have loads of field moves, their edges are what they are for somebody as small as they are with very little muscle (compared to Tonya Harding, Trixie Schuba, etc.). The stronger Japanese ladies probably should be scoring higher than Eteri's ladies, but probably not enough to change the competition results.

Maybe true....but you forgot to add in the Eteri Points