Mirai Nagasu Cheer thread: Return to Olympus

[PRlady]

Have we cleared up when the surgery happened? Agree she's tough. Post skating, career in investment banking? Communications for politician, CEO?

I love Mirai as a skater and a funny, wifty-in-a-good-way young woman. She’s the last person who should go into mean old political communications and chant messages!

She needs to do something creative and fun. She’s be great in retail or entertainment I think.

 

[B.Cooper]

Mirai said in her IG post that she started experiencing intense pain in 2016, but continued to train thru the symptoms, thru the end of the 2017-2018 season, is that correct? Is this an issue of her coach, Tom Zakrajsek... pushing her through the pain, like he has with so many of his other athletes...to compete injured?

 

[Willin]

@B.Cooper Well, Tom Z is notorious for doing that, but it sounds like she had been getting treatment of some sort the whole time. So maybe both agreed it was okay to continue with her training since she was doing the alternative therapy? Not that I agree with the decision, but one would think they may have thought that having some treatment made the training situation okay somehow...

 

[Spun Silver]

I think it's clear from what she wrote that *she* was determined to get to the Olympics come hell or high water and was not going to let anything stop her from being sent. In her mind that included surgery, showing signs of weakness (making the injury public), or missing competitions needed to perfect the 3A or build the strongest possible resume. There is not even a hint that she blames Tom Z for anything.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I think it's clear from what she wrote that *she* was determined to get to the Olympics come hell or high water and was not going to let anything stop her from being sent. In her mind that included surgery, showing signs of weakness (making the injury public), or missing competitions needed to perfect the 3A or build the strongest possible resume. There is not even a hint that she blames Tom Z for anything.

That is just 17 ways to stupid. Where was the "adult" in this scenario? It is figure skating. It is not world peace.

 

[Sylvia]

Where was the "adult" in this scenario?

Mirai was the adult and made her own decisions. It was/is her her own life, her body, her Olympic dream.

ETA:

Has any other top athlete being able to return to competetive skating after such surgery?
When reading Mirai's word on Instagram I really got to understand how "driven" an athlete can be and how important despite naggering injuries it can be for them to reach their goals. I remember being so impressed with all her jumping clips I saw on Instagram leading up to Nationals/Olympics and now knowing she was already injured at the time, it makes me realize how important her dream for a 2nd Olympics really was.
If this is "it" competetive skating wise, she will always be one of my favorite skater over the past 10 years.

Since we don't know any specifics about Mirai's surgical procedure, it's impossible to know at this point. Nice post!

 

[Spun Silver]

That is just 17 ways to stupid. Where was the "adult" in this scenario? It is figure skating. It is not world peace.

It was the dream she worked for her whole life. And it paid off. Pretty sure she's content with her choices!

 

[AxelAnnie]

It was the dream she worked for her whole life. And it paid off. Pretty sure she's content with her choices!

And I hope she is just as happy at 50.

I am going to ask my friend who has an OGM from Nagano. I would love his perspective. He would probably, in the moment, side with Marai......but now that he has two active boys that he chases all over. I wonder if from today's perspective he would chose to be kinder on his body.

 

[Spun Silver]

I wonder how many Olympic contenders in their teens and 20s make decisions based on how they'll feel when they're 50!

 

[AxelAnnie]

I wonder how many Olympic contenders in their teens and 20s make decisions based on how they'll feel when they're 50!

Probably none.

 

[B.Cooper]

@B.Cooper Well, Tom Z is notorious for doing that, but it sounds like she had been getting treatment of some sort the whole time. So maybe both agreed it was okay to continue with her training since she was doing the alternative therapy? Not that I agree with the decision, but one would think they may have thought that having some treatment made the training situation okay somehow...

It isn't that Nagasu wasn't receiving some sort of medical therapy/treatment, and trying to avoid surgery, bc Mirai was correct, the recovery time for her surgery is unpredictable and quite frankly, unreliable in terms of coming back 110%.

What bothers me is this pattern of behavior, by TZ and "team" of having chronically injured elite athletes....and having them "push thru" the injury, to reach an end goal. At this point, I can't fault the athlete...to me it is a pervasive cloud or training environment that does not allow for full recovery, earlier, during the course of the injury. Whose to say that perhaps only the labral tear would not have been further compromised by further repetitive motion, and the fracture may not have occurred. Hard to say. But what are the conversations that happened day in and day out, that pushes an athlete to compete beyond pain, that as Mirai stated, was excruciating? For two years?

Can't fault Mirai for wanting to make it back to the OLY team, having been skipped over in 2014. I can't blame her. Subconsciously, I think there has to be some level of animosity toward USFS on her part, with the back and forth, from 2010, thru 2018, on team selection. Wagner had the stronger FS of the two skaters in 2010, but finished 3rd overall (4 points total behind Nagasu), and did not make the team. Nagasu finished ahead of Wagner in 2014 by 8 points total ( ahead of Wagner in both the SP and LP), and was passed over. Yes, there was the issue of Wagner's collective resume in the 2014 team selection (don't get me started on how US Natls are NOT the OLY trials, for figure skating, LOL) So, to her credit and to her statement where she tipped her hat and said she wanted to be sure that USFS could NOT pass over her in 2018, she was going to do whatever it takes to make the team, and probably to give her team credit, the only way that was going to happen was to bring in the 3A to her repertoire. Wagner had struggled over the years to do 3x3 successfully and had UR called on occasion, and Nagasu had a history of UR. Nagasu had also lost some of her "sparkle" from 2010, and had become a bit more reserved on the ice in terms of presentation (and maybe that was a reflection of maturity, or music selection that was too mature for Nagasu, hard to know). Wagner, on the other hand, had found her "space" in terms of presentation, working most frequently with Shae Lynn and had learned how to pull in the audience (you can't ignore the diva factor, LOL).

So, to tip the scales in Nagasu's favor, I am sure Zakrajsek analyzed the numbers back in 2016, and figured out what needed to make Nagasu a "contender". They started having her rotate 3As at many competitions on practice sessions and on social media...to get the word out that it was in the works....he was building a visual history of her attempts at the jump. And for all the hype around Zakrajsek being a good technical coach, and he may be, as he has been able to teach quads to many of the guys, and Nagasu the 3A, corrected Flatt's flutz to a true lutz, and despite Flatt's small stature, she had incredibly fast twitch rotational speed and was an unusually consistent jumper when she was healthy....those are difficult skills to teach.

But it is the consistent thread of the history of chronic or severe injury in his elite athletes that bothers me more.....

 

[GullyGirl84]

Re: team selection and Mirai vs Ashley. I think that it is clear by some things that Mirai and Ashley have said that Mirai did not take issue with Ashley making the team. Ashley said in 2014 that Mirai texted her and said that she [Ashley] deserved to be on the team. Mirai mentioned in her interview with Jonathan Van Ness that Polina was chosen for the team and it was her international debut as a senior, so I surmise that Mirai more of questioned the body of work in Polina's case (even though Polina did finish above her at nationals). I think that Polina making the junior grand prix final that year counted for a lot in the selection committee's mind/how the judges scored her, all that Mirai had to compare was a grand prix bronze that season (and one every year in that quad, but she never got two per season/made the final). Re: 2010, Mirai was absolutely hammered for unders in her nationals LP. Scott and Sandra thought that Mirai had won it all after she finished, it was pretty unusual for judges to score a former champion like that, I thought she deserved at least second in the LP. She had cleaned up her jumps so that she got no unders at that Olympics, so maybe it was a good thing.

Yes, it is uncomfortable to know just what Mirai was pushing through. It's interesting that she specified 2016 being the year this started, I believe that the first time that the public saw Mirai's clean triple axel was on Instagram in the Fall of 2016. I remember that it happened after her really rough outing at Skate Canada. I do remember that she told TSL that she wanted to continue "until her body breaks"...

 

[Wyliefan]

Mirai says the surgery was in September. https://www.instagram.com/p/BshXIG-lCgi/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=10d18ewqrq0zy

 

[DreamSkates]

I wonder how many Olympic contenders in their teens and 20s make decisions based on how they'll feel when they're 50!

0

 

[giselle23]

And I hope she is just as happy at 50.

I am going to ask my friend who has an OGM from Nagano. I would love his perspective. He would probably, in the moment, side with Marai......but now that he has two active boys that he chases all over. I wonder if from today's perspective he would chose to be kinder on his body.

It’s Mirai, but I’ll assume it was a typo.
Mirai has been skating for a long time. Her injury is the same as other skaters have experienced after years of intense training and repetitive jumping, most notably, Michelle Kwan. I think it is wrong to blame her coach. She was old enough to make her own decisions. And it is also wrong to say that Tom Z’s skaters tend to suffer injuries. He trained Ryan Bradley, Max Aaron and Jeremy Abbott none of whom suffered serious injuries. And Rachael Flatt’s career probably suffered more from being in school than from injury. If I were Mirai, I wouldn’t trade that Olympic moment for being injury-free. Just ask Tara Lipinski.

 

[Sylvia]

This interview took place when Mirai visited Detroit in mid-December: https://www.clickondetroit.com/news...es-us-figure-skating-championships-in-detroit

 

[B.Cooper]

It’s Mirai, but I’ll assume it was a typo.
Mirai has been skating for a long time. Her injury is the same as other skaters have experienced after years of intense training and repetitive jumping, most notably, Michelle Kwan. I think it is wrong to blame her coach. She was old enough to make her own decisions. And it is also wrong to say that Tom Z’s skaters tend to suffer injuries. He trained Ryan Bradley, Max Aaron and Jeremy Abbott none of whom suffered serious injuries. And Rachael Flatt’s career probably suffered more from being in school than from injury. If I were Mirai, I wouldn’t trade that Olympic moment for being injury-free. Just ask Tara Lipinski.

Just the known injuries that were talked about in the media....Bradley skated on broken bones in his feet at Worlds in 2010; Aaron suffered chronic groin strains and injuries and developed a hernia which was corrected with surgery. Mroz also suffered from similar strains from training 3A and quads. Abbott was probably one of the lucky ones, and incurred no chronic injuries while with Zakrajsek that I am aware of, though his training of quads with Zakrajsek ended when he moved out of CO. Flatt sustained multiple herniated discs in her back in 2007 and then developed chronic tendinitis in both legs/feet in 2009/2010 season, which ended her career in 2014. Nagasu began developing symptoms in her hip in 2016 and skated thru the pain until her surgery this past autumn. Not sure what issues Zawadski had, but I do remember her, as well as Gilles dealing with some injury issues during their careers when they skated with Zakrajsek. Vincent has had some injury issues since moving to CO and thru out his career, although he trains with both Gambill and Zakrajsek. Not sure of the issues that Camden has dealt with...

This isn't to say that many elite skaters deal with injuries day in and day out, and Zakrajsek had quite a large group of elite skaters for a number of years, so the likelihood of any one of them being injured at some point in any season was a realistic expectation of training at a high level. Just that so many of them were injured...wonder what their PT expenses were at the height of their careers ;-)

 

[giselle23]

Just the known injuries that were talked about in the media....Bradley skated on broken bones in his feet at Worlds in 2010; Aaron suffered chronic groin strains and injuries and developed a hernia which was corrected with surgery. Mroz also suffered from similar strains from training 3A and quads. Abbott was probably one of the lucky ones, and incurred no chronic injuries while with Zakrajsek that I am aware of, though his training of quads with Zakrajsek ended when he moved out of CO. Flatt sustained multiple herniated discs in her back in 2007 and then developed chronic tendinitis in both legs/feet in 2009/2010 season, which ended her career in 2014. Nagasu began developing symptoms in her hip in 2016 and skated thru the pain until her surgery this past autumn. Not sure what issues Zawadski had, but I do remember her, as well as Gilles dealing with some injury issues during their careers when they skated with Zakrajsek. Vincent has had some injury issues since moving to CO and thru out his career, although he trains with both Gambill and Zakrajsek. Not sure of the issues that Camden has dealt with...

This isn't to say that many elite skaters deal with injuries day in and day out, and Zakrajsek had quite a large group of elite skaters for a number of years, so the likelihood of any one of them being injured at some point in any season was a realistic expectation of training at a high level. Just that so many of them were injured...wonder what their PT expenses were at the height of their careers ;-)

So many skaters have been plagued by injuries that I think it is unfair to blame one coach. I remember when Arutunian was blamed for having skaters that "always" ended up injured. The longer a skater skates , the more likely he or she is to have a serious injury. And some are just more prone to injuries than others. Here are the some of the skaters who didn't skate with Tom Z. who ended up with career-ending injuries: Alissa Czisny, Alexei Yagudin, Evan Lysacek, Michelle Kwan, Naomi Nari Nam, Tara Lipinski. Kwan, Lysacek, Czisny and Lipinski (and maybe Yagudin and Nam, too) all ended up with same injury as Mirai--torn labrum in the hip. It seems to be an injury that afflicts skaters no matter who is coaching them. So maybe Tom Z's skaters tend to be injured more than others (and maybe not), but I don't think Mirai's injury is the result of skating with him.

 

[Coco]

I've spent a lot of time on the couch or at a desk and I have at least one torn hip labrum, with the other hip labrum most likely being torn as well.

Never skated seriously at all in my life. I was a swimmer, and not that serious of one, so this is most likely not a sports injury.

I think torn hip labrums are far more common than doctors know. It probably ends up causing 'low back pain' in a lot of less active people. Skaters hips are so important, though, they get MRIs a lot earlier than the average person.

 

[alexikeguchi]

I've spent a lot of time on the couch or at a desk and I have at least one torn hip labrum, with the other hip labrum most likely being torn as well.

Never skated seriously at all in my life. I was a swimmer, and not that serious of one, so this is most likely not a sports injury.

I think torn hip labrums are far more common than doctors know. It probably ends up causing 'low back pain' in a lot of less active people. Skaters hips are so important, though, they get MRIs a lot earlier than the average person.

As a middle-aged and just moderately active person who skated recreationally for the last time thirty years ago, I still developed extensive bilateral labral tears resulting in surgery on both hips due solely to my specific joint anatomy and years of impingement. With intensive activity, anyone with this anatomic variant will develop labral tears by their late teens or early twenties, and it has nothing to do with specific technique or coaching. BTW, I have no permanent disability whatsoever and am actually less likely to need hip replacements in the future. As long as this injury is addressed before significant arthritis and joint narrowing set in (which I expect is the case of all these athletes who likely had frequent MRIs), there is no detriment to longterm health, so I can understand why 100% of them would push through pain to achieve their Olympic dreams.

 

[GullyGirl84]

Per Nick McCarvel's twitter, Mirai will be joining the team that used to do the Ice Network coverage to provide analysis for this year's nationals (with Nick, Michael Weiss, Brooke Castile, and Emily Samuelson...might be Emily's first time doing coverage too, can't remember). The coverage will livestream from U.S Figure Skating's Facebook and YouTube pages.

 

[rosewood]

Per Nick McCarvel's twitter, Mirai will be joining the team that used to do the Ice Network coverage to provide analysis for this year's nationals (with Nick, Michael Weiss, Brooke Castile, and Emily Samuelson...might be Emily's first time doing coverage too, can't remember). The coverage will livestream from U.S Figure Skating's Facebook and YouTube pages.

Wohoo! Congrats for getting this job! Wish she'll do some training for doing this prior to the first coverage.

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

Mirai Nagusu's advice on dealing with your period during competition...
https://hellogiggles.com/news/olympian-mirai-nagasu-period-figure-skating/

 

[rosewood]

From USFS's facebook:

Ladies Free Wrap-up
https://www.facebook.com/usfiguresk...MnaUWpI9wUfs2sF2c4NdnyUitNq7kBJkDcA&__tn__=-R

Ladies Free
https://www.facebook.com/usfiguresk...GPqwx03RNyP4wdNtkUpoNEor2jPRMD7TfhM&__tn__=-R

Wake Up U.S. Championships
https://www.facebook.com/usfiguresk...XL6B61KnZKJq8T2KIPeMY4ix3PzZ4p5YMqQ&__tn__=-R

Ladies Short Program
https://www.facebook.com/usfiguresk...GslFQ8BV0u1n3lQzPhdaZRBiCrhPR69WI5E&__tn__=-R

 

[Sylvia]

^^^ For those who prefer to watch YT videos - Nick McCarvel was the Bridgestone Ice Desk host:

Ladies Free Wrap-up (with Mirai, Michael Weiss, Brooke Castile): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXNouvmL8bw

Ladies Free Preview (with Mirai, Jackie Wong, Castile): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBPPXxayAvw

Ladies Short Wrap-up (with Mirai, Weiss, Castile): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5EUzp_-SqM

Ladies Short Program Preview (with Mirai, Alissa Czisny, Castile): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CynRSyljcL4

ETA:

Mirai Nagasu makes commentating debut at U.S. Championships (Jan. 25, 2019): https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...akes-commentating-debut-at-u-s-championships/

 

[Sylvia]

If anyone is wondering why Mirai is in Wenatchee, Washington: https://www.towntoyotacenter.com/main-event-calendar/2019/3/1/numerica-credit-unions-winter-ice-gala

ETA:

Clip (new exhibition program?): https://www.instagram.com/p/BtXnSKQFWVn/

 

[Coco]

Amazing entrance to the back camel! Thanks for posting.

 

[B.Cooper]

Amazing entrance to the back camel! Thanks for posting.

I remember Emily Hughes having a entry into spins from a back spiral
an oldie...from 2005 Liberty competition...around 3:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJNoIaROgO8

 

[Laura4]

Mirai's podcast interview with Meryl Davis for the Olympic Channel:

https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/o...behind-triple-axel-triumph-with-mirai-nagasu/

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Mirai posted a side-by-side comparison of her in figure skating and her in other sports.

I would look like the video on the right no matter what the sport.