Meddling: New Documentary On Peacock about the 2002 Salt Lake Pairs Scandal

Omgggggggg. I have to take a breather through the third episode here, I’m addicted to this. That Canadian judge that was brave enough to start tape recording all the conversations.


I don’t even get this type of drama or shock value out of a good old fashion Beverly Hills housewives reunion

So much corruption in the sport and to this day if you ask me. The bloc judging is out of control. Sandra Bezik knew who the top five dance teams in Nagano was going to be as it was all predetermined.

When the USSR fell and that made so many more countries it’s so true that made half of the judges Russian or exRussian USSR judges.
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
Omgggggggg. I have to take a breather through the third episode here, I’m addicted to this. That Canadian judge that was brave enough to start tape recording all the conversations.


I don’t even get this type of drama or shock value out of a good old fashion Beverly Hills housewives reunion

So much corruption in the sport and to this day if you ask me. The bloc judging is out of control. Sandra Bezik knew who the top five dance teams in Nagano was going to be as it was all predetermined.

When the USSR fell and that made so many more countries it’s so true that made half of the judges Russian or exRussian USSR judges.
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Nagano dance was definitely sketchy and a much bigger scandal than SLC pairs. When Grischuk/Platov won that compulsory dance despite her erroneously putting her foot down in that pattern, it was very clear the results were fixed. I felt bad for Krylova/Ovsyannikov in that moment because it appeared no matter the mistake, they were always going to be viewed as Russian #2. I also thought Punsalan/Swallow were under appreciated that season as it was the first season that I thought they actually had sophisticated programs and it was as if the judges were marking them based on their past. I was happy to see Anissina and Peizerat win bronze over Bourne and Kraatz because I appreciated the drama, passion and creative gender bending of the French. Oksana Grischuk’s fluff pieces were a better watch than her ice dancing. Evgeni Platov was an absolutely stellar ice dance man; undeniably one of the best ever! I always wondered what may have been had Platov and Krylova been partnered. <3
 
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soogar said:
They never complained how under 6.0, a triple flutz-double toe was worth more than a 3t-3t in the short or a 3f-2t. They would bury European ladies who did the 3t-3t at the expense of American ladies. Then all of a sudden, COP made it hard for Americans to be held up.
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There were very few 3-3s in the short under 6.0 and not many 3-3s, or at least good 3-3s, overall. The one I remember was Elena Sokolova at 2003 Worlds. Kwan beat her even though she had a 3-3. But the difference in just about everything else said Kwan was the correct winner that year.
 
I think it started to naturally evolve that way by 2004 Worlds as we saw Shizuka, Miki, and Carolina among others do a 3/3 in the SP. I wonder how it all would have evolved if IJS was never implemented. It may have gotten to a point where a SP with 3/2 would have started to decrease in base vale and would be seen as the same level as a 3/3 with a fall depending on the type of 3/3 being attempted in the SP.
 
giselle23 said:
There were very few 3-3s in the short under 6.0 and not many 3-3s, or at least good 3-3s, overall. The one I remember was Elena Sokolova at 2003 Worlds. Kwan beat her even though she had a 3-3. But the difference in just about everything else said Kwan was the correct winner that year.
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Sokolova literally only won silver since she had a triple lutz-triple toe. Her teammate Volchkova for instance finished 5th, but all her jumps were higher and stronger quality, and no other area of her skating was weaker than Sokolova, and she skated nearly clean, so it is safe to say without her triple lutz-triple toe Sokolova drops atleast 3 placings, possibly more.
 
Fadeevfanboy said:
Sokolova literally only won silver since she had a triple lutz-triple toe. Her teammate Volchkova for instance finished 5th, but all her jumps were higher and stronger quality, and no other area of her skating was weaker than Sokolova, and she skated nearly clean, so it is safe to say without her triple lutz-triple toe Sokolova drops atleast 3 placings, possibly more.
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Disagree. Volchkova crawled through her programs at Jennifer Robinson-like speed, and she slowed down even more for a few of the jumps (see how the loop was always nearly from a standstill, the Axel almost the same). She also had a severe outside edge on the flip (no different from Sokolova there), and her 2T after the huge 3Lz was always tiny and really forced. The Lutz, Sal, and toe were the only really decent jumps she had. Her spins were slow, her layback was pretty bad, etc. 2003 was the year she glammed herself all up and had her best Worlds result, but her skating had a little more attack in her early senior days.

Sokolova at least skated with some speed and excitement, and came very close to beating Kwan in the SP in the US. 6-3 in favor of Kwan IIRC out of the judges that counted.

IMO, Elena always got unlucky with poor skates at Nationals while Viktoria usually hit by then, but Elena was the more well-rounded skater.
 
VGThuy said:
I think it started to naturally evolve that way by 2004 Worlds as we saw Shizuka, Miki, and Carolina among others do a 3/3 in the SP. I wonder how it all would have evolved if IJS was never implemented. It may have gotten to a point where a SP with 3/2 would have started to decrease in base vale and would be seen as the same level as a 3/3 with a fall depending on the type of 3/3 being attempted in the SP.
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I think 2004 worlds was the first time the 3/3 began to feel like it was now a regular thing and a soon to be must to be a medal contender, despite 2 of the 3 medalists that year having no 3/3. Shizuka, Ando, young Kostner, Sokolova still and some others seemed to bringing them and the push seemed to be on for Kwan, Cohen, Suguri to need them too.

It turned out to be more a blip than anything though. Shizuka almost never did another 3/3 again, including in winning her OGM. Ando's jumps and consistency declined for a couple years after as she grew. Kostner was super inconsistent in her 3/3s and all else. Slutskaya returned to form but her 3/3s were always inconsistent and irregular even in her younger prime. And Sokolova rarely did a 3/3 again either.

Not until 2007 worlds did the 3/3 return as a regular sort of thing for the contenders for good. Meissner unleashing a program of multiple 3/3s to win a shock world title in 2006 was the real early sign of the new era to come.
 
The final part of Meddling dropped last night and it focused on the 2002 ice dancing scandal involving Marina Anissina and the Russian mafia, the ISU decision to award the second gold medal to Jamie and David, and a final wrap-up of where all of the key players are today in their lives. Again I was quite impressed with the access to the players in the documentary, including the accused Russian mobster and a key FBI investigator on the case, and the amount of wire-tapped conversations available. Still, the conclusion was a bit unsatisfying because in the end there was no conclusive proof as to who did what. Did the Russian mobster really fix the games, or was it all bluster and talk for results that would have happened anyway and he chose to take the credit with the Anissina family? We all know Didier Gailhaguet (still no new interviews) is corrupt as he can be, but did he actually have the power with Russia to give the 2002 ice dancing gold medal to the French couple Anissina & Peizerat over the Russian couple Lobacheva & Averbukh? There is no satisfactory explanation of a quid pro quo as to why Russia would agree to give up an ice dancing gold medal to another country (even though Anissina is born Russian), when only Torvill & Dean had broken the otherwise complete domination of the Soviet/Russian ice dancers. Of course, only Marie-Reine Le Gougne (who probably gets the most face time in Episode 4) and Didier Gailhaguet got any punishment at all, the three-year slap on the wrist which left them eligible to participate in the the 2006 Olympics.

All-in-all I feel Meddling is well worth watching, somewhat to my surprise, despite trodding over 20-year old material. While it is undeniably biased towards North America generally and Canada specifically, there is still a reasonable balance due to the quantity and quality of the interviews with Elena & Anton, and the always delightful Tamara Moskvina. Former Russian Federation President Piseev and his ice dance judging wife Alla are shown in a deserved very poor light (I'll never forget the evening when the ultimate Russian figure skating power couple visited a late night training session at the U Delaware main rink to check up on the progress of the Russian couples after Linichuk & Karponosov had relocated to the USA from Moscow!). It's not an understatement to compare Piseev to Putin as stated by one of the interviewees LOL--he was one intimidating-looking and powerful dude for sure. When showing the current lives of the principals, I am amazed there was no mention of David's marriage to Katya Gordeeva! And I had to laugh when Anton finally switched over to English for many of his interviews in Part 4. Elena clearly remains unhappy at the result of sharing her gold medal, whereas Anton in his interviews seems very cool with that result--and of course, Moskvina says there is only one gold medal-winning pairs and it's hers. Finally, I couldn't help but laugh at the portrayal of the Russian mafia guy and his hard-to-believe explanation of the events despite the wire-tapped material--and it would have been nice to get a fresh interview with Marina Anissina as Meddling really did quite a job at tarnishing her gold medal with Gwendal Peizerat.
 
Yuri said:
Just watched the first two episodes, which forced me to immediately go back and watch the original NBC coverage of the final group of four pairs and the medal ceremony for the first time in 20 years. Overall I was impressed that "Meddling" has brought back all of the key players in original interviews, although I am puzzled why Anton (who I wouldn't recognize now) gave his interviews in Russian given he speaks English well. They also splurged for lots of network competition footage from the Canadian Championships, Skate America, Worlds, and the Olympics, and it was cool to see some old videos from Glenora. I cannot say that I have learned much thus far other than the abusive behavior of Oleg Shliakov was far worse that I had heard (although it didn't surprise me) and I had forgotten how Anton needed to rescue Elena from the hospital and get her out of Latvia.

I will admit my bias that I was acquaintances back in the day with Elena & Anton, even sharing dinner with them at the hotel of a Pro-Am near Toronto circa 1998-1999 when I was travelling with Usova & Platov, but my opinion on the SLC Olympics results remain unchanged. The free skate was extremely close and I really can't fault any judge for choosing either couple first. Personally I would have given Elena & Anton 5.7/5.9 (or 5.8/5.9 if they had skated last) and Jamie & David 5.8/5.8 (or 5.9/5.8 if skating before B&S). In the end, I felt that Elena & Anton's new program with exquisite choreography should have been rewarded over Jamie & David's rehash of a three-year old program with "Love Story", despite Anton stepping out of the double axel in the side-by-side jump sequence (but making a perfect recovery for the 2nd jump!). I forgot how close Shen & Zhao came to stealing the show with their nearly-landed throw quad salchow and it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they had landed it and all three pairs split the 1st and 2nd place ordinals.

Finally, now I remember precisely why I lost all respect for Scott and Sandra during the NBC broadcast. They were disgusting in their pro-North American biases, and "Meddling" includes plenty of their sore loser comments. But the rest of the "Meddling" interviews with the likes of Underhill & Martini also left me wanting for more balanced opinions from Russian or European skating experts. In no way was it a slam dunk that Jamie & David should have won gold, even though I do agree they skated their program flawlessly and to the best of their abilities. Still, I am interested in exactly what French judge Marie-Reine Le Gougne will have to say for herself, as well as the role of Didier Gailhaguet in this mess and the impact on the ice dancing event with the ice dancing gold medal of Anissina & Peizerat.
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I can’t watch it living in Canada but it’s pretty safe that the whole thing was just corrupt. Annissina was caught on tape but I never felt the media attention in my country was that focussed on her. I know it definitely pushed me away from watching figure skating for years. I hate cheating in any sport.
 
I just saw the last episode.

There are sooo many figure skating stories that could make great viewing; I don't know where to begin. If you dig deeper into what is going on in skating, peeling the onion will reveal many more newsworthy stories, meaning even more episodes. Coaching changes, love affairs, choreography debates, costume issues, abuse, rivalries, skating nude for money, music issues and scoring are just only a few of the topics that could be covered.

The sport is a gift that keeps on giving intriguing stories that could be told.
 
I'm laughing at Scott Hamilton acting like he's surprised that Anton and Elena were made to be the bad guys in the American media as if he didn't contribute to that. His reaction was such a large part of the perception of Sale/Pelletier being the sad downtrodden pair while the Russians only won because this was fixed. Do some self reflection on your own actions sir.

Also I can't look at Jamie Sale without thinking about how she's a wacky conspiracy theorist now oops.

Anyway, it was a fine program to have on in the background while I play solitaire.
 
allezfred said:
Jean Senft was given the Order of Canada so people in glass houses etc etc. :shuffle:
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Let’s ignore that she was setting up the situation and tape as proof of cheating that she intended to go public. So no, she wasn’t cheating. Ignorance blinds you.
 
Rukia said:
I'm laughing at Scott Hamilton acting like he's surprised that Anton and Elena were made to be the bad guys in the American media as if he didn't contribute to that. His reaction was such a large part of the perception of Sale/Pelletier being the sad downtrodden pair while the Russians only won because this was fixed. Do some self reflection on your own actions sir.

Also I can't look at Jamie Sale without thinking about how she's a wacky conspiracy theorist now oops.

Anyway, it was a fine program to have on in the background while I play solitaire.
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Well when a French judge admits to cheating and that she would have put the Cdn pair first .. as if skaters didn’t know first hand about the corruption. Look at Annissina.
 
Tumbochki (“Тумбочки”) are literally small side tables, as in bedroom sets or next to sofas. So, as slang, it could mean something small, wooden, inconsequential…my guess. DH would know if there’s a cruder meaning but he’s in Russia, where it’s the middle of the night…too late for WhatsApp.
 
I just watched Ep 4, which is fascinating.

I agree, that mafia guy, “Taiwanchik”, is an unexpected hoot. A character among characters…you just can’t make these people up!

Moskvina is precious, LOL! She’s something else but likeable.

The following Q has been answered:
By the way, the one piece in the puzzle that I don’t quite understand is: Why did Anissina/Peizarat need help? Weren’t they already the reigning World Champs, which would’ve already made them the faves going into the Olympics, especially in the old 6.0 system? Or…had they been beaten in the GP series by another team?
 
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Sparks said:
A/P were not the 2001 world champions. Scary Babs and partner were
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Ah, that’s right! I had forgotten about them!!! Yet another country in the mix.
AND… to mix things up further, Bourne/Kraatz of Canada had won the GP Final prior to the Olys. What a wacky quadrennial for ice dancing that was. Ohhhhh….. I need to rewatch my DVDs of SLC.
 
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Frau Muller said:
Tumbochki (“Тумбочки”) are literally small side tables, as in bedroom sets or next to sofas. So, as slang, it could mean something small, wooden, inconsequential…my guess. DH would know if there’s a cruder meaning but he’s in Russia, where it’s the middle of the night…too late for WhatsApp.
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Literally it's a bedside table. In slang terms, when talking about a skater in derogatory terms is kind of an equivalent of a "cow on ice" or "a piece of wood" lacking grace, refinement, sophistication etc...used as insult :lol: I don't know what the best equivalent term in English is

I'm still :lol: at the very sanitized way they translated that...
 
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And why didn’t she release the tape prior to competiton so something could be done to prevent the corruption from happening? Instead she went along with the plan and then released it when he didn’t follow through with it.
 
allezfred said:
She only released the tape when Bourne/Kraatz didn't medal. Do you think she would have released it if they had won bronze in Nagano?
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They already knew there was no chance of a medal. It was no secret the exact order of finish.
 
allezfred said:
She only released the tape when Bourne/Kraatz didn't medal. Do you think she would have released it if they had won bronze in Nagano?
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Didn't she release it only when she got the warning for national bias by ISU?
 
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