Loads of talent but not enough success to match it

[mjb52]

Silverstein/Pekarek and the Steiglers were two I thought would be more dominant at the adult level. That semi-taught me not to get too invested in young skaters but it didn't stick because when they come along and they're really great, you sort of can't help it.

 

[Vash01]

Silverstein/Pekarek and the Steiglers were two I thought would be more dominant at the adult level. That semi-taught me not to get too invested in young skaters but it didn't stick because when they come along and they're really great, you sort of can't help it.

They entered my mind too but I decided not to mention them, partly because they were young and had not competed very long. Also as I discovered later, Jamie's health issues were there too.

I always wondered what happened to the Stieglers. I saw them skate live in Sun Valley, I think. The were adorable. I did see their performance on tv at one of the senior GP's. Nothing after that.

 

[deegee]

They entered my mind too but Indecided not to mention them, partly because they were young and had not competed very long. Also as I discovered later, Jamie's health issues were there too.

I always wondered what happened to the Stieglers. I saw them skate live in Sun Valley, I think. The were adorable. I did see their performance on tv at one of the senior GP's. Nothing after that.

didn't tiffany become an ice dancer for a little bit before ultimately retiring from competitive skating? maybe i'm mixing her up with someone else.

 

[meggonzo]

didn't tiffany become an ice dancer for a little bit before ultimately retiring from competitive skating? maybe i'm mixing her up with someone else.

She skated pairs with Bert Cording for a season or two, and then switched to ice dance with Sergei Magerovsky.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

didn't tiffany become an ice dancer for a little bit before ultimately retiring from competitive skating? maybe i'm mixing her up with someone else.

Yes I saw her compete with her Russian partner at skate America Pittsburgh 2004

I still remember her bright pink dress and long blonde hair

I think her partner’s name was Sergei

 

[Lemonade20]

Tough one! No one's perfectly consistent, there were a lot of heart breaking skates. Kurt did well at worlds but always fell apart at the Olympics. Chan isn't someone I'd agree on, but Jeremy Abbott is definitely one I do. Nicole Bobek had the talent but not the luck to go all the way.

 

[Vash01]

Astakhova/Rogonov. I loved them and they were always underrated.

They had the potential to get better. I had hopes for them. They quit too early.

 

[Vash01]

Can we include Mirai Nagasu? She had a great team competition at the 2018 Olympics but other than that she did not have many successes after her early US championships.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Tiffany Chin, Caryn Kadavy, Nicole Bobek, Krisztina Czako, Mirai Nagasu, Gracie Gold, Rika Kihira, Alexandra Trusova

 

[Vash01]

Tiffany Chin, Caryn Kadavy, Nicole Bobek, Krisztina Czako, Mirai Nagasu, Gracie Gold, Rika Kihira, Alexandra Trusova

I wouldn't include Kihira and Trusova yet. They are still competing. I agree about others.

 

[deegee]

elena ilinykh... can't help but think ilinykh/katsalapov would have been great rivals to papadakis/cizeron.

 

[Vash01]

elena ilinykh... can't help but think ilinykh/katsalapov would have been great rivals to papadakis/cizeron.

That was a heart breaker for me.

 

[Japanfan]

I said Patrick because despite his obvious monumental talent, I would go so far as to say generational talent, (with Hanyu being the only other one) he never did have the kind of success he could have had if he'd been a fierce competitor. Imagine what he'd have achieved with his talent both technical and artistic coupled with Stojko's competitive mindset. He'd have won everything in site - including a couple of individual Oly golds. He "lost" to Hanyu's 1st Only gold for want of a double axel. If he'd skated to his potential he'd have creamed him.

I don't think Patrick thrived on competition the way that others, such as Stojko, did.

I remember interviews with him in the lead-up to the 2014 OG. Canadian media hounded him relentlessly as the OG favourite. And Patrick just seemed increasingly defensive.

I was not surprised when he literally delivered the gold medal to Yuzu on a silver platter.

And yeah - just one double axel. Kind of sad.

 

[Lemonade20]

I don't think Patrick thrived on competition the way that others, such as Stojko, did.

I remember interviews with him in the lead-up to the 2014 OG. Canadian media hounded him relentlessly as the OG favourite. And Patrick just seemed increasingly defensive.

I was not surprised when he literally delivered the gold medal to Yuzu on a silver platter.

And yeah - just one double axel. Kind of sad.

Skating is 20% physical and 80% mental. You really have to be in the right mindset and have the confidence to skate to the best of your abilities. Abbott was so talented but his nerves got the best of him. Chan loves to skate and you can see it but in a competitive environment it's a lot for him.

 

[Vash01]

Skating is 20% physical and 80% mental. You really have to be in the right mindset and have the confidence to skate to the best of your abilities. Abbott was so talented but his nerves got the best of him. Chan loves to skate and you can see it but in a competitive environment it's a lot for him.

Tarasova Morozov are like Jeremy Abbott, I think. They have great talent but when it comes to competitions, they just can't deliver.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

I’m also going to throw the two Tonyas out there… One with a “onia” and one “onya”

Indeed. But in Miss Kwiatkowski's case,most of the cause of her lack of success came down to unfortunate internal USFSA politics.

-BB

 

[overedge]

Skating is 20% physical and 80% mental. You really have to be in the right mindset and have the confidence to skate to the best of your abilities. Abbott was so talented but his nerves got the best of him. Chan loves to skate and you can see it but in a competitive environment it's a lot for him.

Yet somehow he still managed to win three worlds, two silver medals at worlds, two individual Olympic medals, one Olympic team medal, ten Canadian championships (as well as winning novice and juniors at Canadians), and numerous GP event medals. If he was that much of a competitive headcase, he wouldn't have gone past regionals.

 

[Alilou]

Yet somehow he still managed to win three worlds, two silver medals at worlds, two one individual Olympic medal, two Olympic team medals, ten Canadian championships (as well as winning novice and juniors at Canadians), and numerous GP event medals. If he was that much of a competitive headcase, he wouldn't have gone past regionals.

Fixed it for you
I guess my point was not that he didn't have success, but that he didn't have a level of success that matched his talent.
Thread title: Loads of talent but not enough success to match it. Patrick's level of success was noteworthy for sure, but did not IMO match his level of talent.

 

[canbelto]

Mukhortova/Trankov. Anyone else remember how gorgeous they could be?

 

[overedge]

Fixed it for you
I guess my point was not that he didn't have success, but that he didn't have a level of success that matched his talent.
Thread title: Loads of talent but not enough success to match it. Patrick's level of success was noteworthy for sure, but did not IMO match his level of talent.

I have to disagree on this one. I don't think anyone with that level of competitive success could be said to have not fulfilled his talent. Yes, it would have been nice for him to win more at Worlds and Olympics, but given what he did achieve, expecting more IMO would be an unrealistic expectation for any skater.

 

[screech]

I think Jeff is actually the opposite of this thread - he overachieved with results compared to his (jumping) talent level. Based on what I saw of him as a junior, I never would have predicted him to win Canadian titles, world and Olympic medals or a world title. It’s not like he was someone who was consistent in practice who couldn’t put it together in competition. He just wasn’t as strong a jumper as his competition, but he found a way to use his other strengths to beat them.

I actually thought of Jeff, then realized he's the opposite. Yes, he did often make mistakes which hurt him, but when he performed decently he kept himself right up there. Though the only time he had a clean competition is the time he won Worlds - does make me wonder what he could have done with more clean competitions.

I also both agree and disagree with Patrick. Yes, he had huge accomplishments, but considering how stupidly talented he was, he should have an OGM and maybe another world title in there. His results record is nothing to sneeze at, but if he could deliver what he was capable of, man he'd have been completely unbeatable.

In the same vein as Patrick, we could almost add Kurt Browning to the list. Amazing Worlds record, however he couldn't deliver at the Olympics.

 

[overedge]

In the same vein as Patrick, we could almost add Kurt Browning to the list. Amazing Worlds record, however he couldn't deliver at the Olympics.

He's the only person to win Worlds with and without figures, which is a record that's going to stand forever (unless figures are added back into competition). IMO the Olympics are not the pinnacle of achievement, so for me his consistent record at Worlds outweighs his results at the Olympics.

 

[Marco]

I don't think Patrick thrived on competition the way that others, such as Stojko, did.

Did Stojko thrive tho? They both have had successful Nationals and Worlds but often missed at the Olympics [relative to expectations anyways].

 

[Lemonade20]

Did Stojko thrive tho? They both have had successful Nationals and Worlds but often missed at the Olympics [relative to expectations anyways].

Stojko managed to grab silver, and he handles competition nerves better than Chan.

 

[Marco]

Stojko managed to grab silver, and he handles competition nerves better than Chan.

Chan also had an individual silver in 2014.

 

[Japanfan]

Did Stojko thrive tho? They both have had successful Nationals and Worlds but often missed at the Olympics [relative to expectations anyways].

Chan also had an individual silver in 2014.

The difference was that Chan choked a bit gave away the gold at the Olympics. The judged loved him, and he was an exceptional skater. Whereas the judges never favored Stojko, and never would. He had to fight for every medal he got, and usually won based on technical. At the '94 Olympics it really could have gone either way, as Urmy and Stojko had similar tech content and each made a mistake. But the judges preferred Urmy.

Then, in '98, Stojko had a groin injury. He couldn't land the quad, and it was quite a feat that he managed to get through the whole program without falling. He was clearly in pain during his skate.

 

[Marco]

The difference was that Chan choked a bit gave away the gold at the Olympics. The judged loved him, and he was an exceptional skater. Whereas the judges never favored Stojko, and never would. He had to fight for every medal he got, and usually won based on technical. At the '94 Olympics it really could have gone either way, as Urmy and Stojko had similar tech content and each made a mistake. But the judges preferred Urmy.

Then, in '98, Stojko had a groin injury. He couldn't land the quad, and it was quite a feat that he managed to get through the whole program without falling. He was clearly in pain during his skate.

In other words Stojko didn't strive at the Olympics. It's a given that he always had to outjump his competitors to win, and in both 94 and 98 he simply didn't. Could it have gone either way in 94? It was an 8-1 split. In 98, if he had landed a quad like Kulik did, do you think enough judges would have gone with Stojko instead of Kulik? I doubt it.

For me, neither Stojko nor Chan strived at their contending Olympics, and obviously neither did Browning. The Canadian man who strived the most in recent decades was probably Buttle in 2006.

 

[Lemonade20]

In other words Stojko didn't strive at the Olympics. It's a given that he always had to outjump his competitors to win, and in both 94 and 98 he simply didn't. Could it have gone either way in 94? It was an 8-1 split. In 98, if he had landed a quad like Kulik did, do you think enough judges would have gone with Stojko instead of Kulik? I doubt it.

For me, neither Stojko nor Chan strived at their contending Olympics, and obviously neither did Browning. The Canadian man who strived the most in recent decades was probably Buttle in 2006.

It's a strange curse on the Canadian men. We have the talent, but not the luck to succeed. So many silver medals, but that gold medal remains elusive.

 

[Vash01]

It's a strange curse on the Canadian men. We have the talent, but not the luck to succeed. So many silver medals, but that gold medal remains elusive.

Brian Orser (1984, 1988)
Kurt Browning (1992, 1994)
Elvis Stojko (1994, 1998)
Patrick Chan (2014, 2018)

Have I missed anyone?

Out of these four, Browning and Chan had the best chance to win the OGM. They were the favorites In those years (they had competed a year earlier, as potential).

There could be a surprise in the future. A Canadian man who is not the favorite or Co-favorite May win the elusive OGM. I don't expect it to happen in 2022 though.

 

[attyfan]

Weren't all those guys the reigning World champ going into at least one of their Olys? I seem to recall Yagudin saying, after he lost the 2001 Worlds to Plush, that his chances of the OGM just got better ... and people pointed out that he wasn't Canadian.