Let's Talk Movies #36 - 2020 - Yep it is a new decade

[sk8pics]

August 18th - Strays. A group of stray dogs plan revenge on one of their previous owners. Big cast in this one, including Will Ferrell, Jamie Foxx, Will Forte, Isla Fisher, Randall Park, Josh Gad, Harvey Guillén, Rob Riggle and Sofía Vergara.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzwOLKTbCUw

Might be entertaining but it’s so sad that the owner tried to get rid of his dog. Not sure I can watch it.

 

[Cachoo]

Might be entertaining but it’s so sad that the owner tried to get rid of his dog. Not sure I can watch it.

I can! They have a plan.

 

[sk8pics]

Late to the party, I know, but I saw Indiana Jones last night with a friend and we laughed our way through the first 3/4 of the movie, so found it very enjoyable. The ending though, OMG, so bad. Not the very end but leading up to it, just even more ridiculous than usual.

 

[jeffisjeff]

I probably won't see Barbie or Oppenheimer since I don't watch many movies (although I did watch Banshees on a recent flight and found it fairly interesting). But I did read American Prometheus when it first came out, and was really moved and impacted by it. I cannot imagine doing it justice in a 3 hour movie, so I highly recommend the book. I posted about it here on FSU about 15 years ago and looked those up in the archives. Apparently, I cried reading the preface.

Last spring, I was on a panel for a leadership development program my university had for faculty thinking of getting into leadership roles. The moderator asked us for our current or favorite books on leadership. I rather snarkily (and perhaps rudely ) replied that I don't read pop psychology books on leadership or anything else, but I find a lot of value in reading biographies and autobiographies about leaders. I then offered American Prometheus and the Madeline Albright autobiography as examples. Every leader has their own unique path, with successes and failures, and there is a lot to be learned from their stories.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

My sister surprised me and paid for Barbie tickets tonight.

Spoiler

I had no idea how much I needed to see stereotype Barbie become a real person without falling in love with anyone. It was really, really, really important.

 

[Allskate]

My sister surprised me and paid for Barbie tickets tonight.

Spoiler

I had no idea how much I needed to see stereotype Barbie become a real person without falling in love with anyone. It was really, really, really important.

I also really liked that, but there definitely are people who are very unhappy about it.

I cannot imagine doing it justice in a 3 hour movie, so I highly recommend the book.

One of the authors of the book is featured in the documentary that is available on Peacock. The documentary is two hours with commercials, but I thought it covered more than the movie did. Or, at least more of significance. The movie seemed both over-inclusive and under-inclusive to me.

Here's an opinion piece that nicely summarizes a lot of my thoughts on Barbie and Oppenheimer:

I saw Barbie and Oppenheimer opening weekend — and one is obviously better

Barbie and Oppenheimer are two of this year's most-anticipated movies. But only one won me over.

www.yahoo.com

And another one about Oppenheimer and his treatment of the female characters:

‘Oppenheimer’ Sex Scenes Aren’t Worth the Hype (Opinion)

Writer-director Christopher Nolan previously addressed his desire to not be “self-conscious” about featuring nudity, but perhaps the filmmaker should have been.

www.indiewire.com

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I also really liked that, but there definitely are people who are very unhappy about it.

They might be the ones that need to embrace that concept the most.

 

[VGThuy]

Just saw Barbie as well thanks to my brother and his fiancée offering to babysit. My impression was that I felt it was a very important movie for me to watch on a personal level, but I don’t know if it’s a movie I’d revisit.

First, the sets, costumes, and styling were A+. I also could tell a lot of love went into this movie as Gerwig and Baumbach clearly did a lot of research into the Barbie franchise and history of Mattel. The music was also fire.

As for the story, I do love the concept and the message. However, I think it’s one of those movies where the ideas were put ahead of the storytelling and organic character development. But that’s okay because it’s Barbie. The entire “canon” and even “idea” of Barbie and its impact on society isn’t a subtle subject honestly, so any kind of messaging needs to be screamed loud.

I sat next to a man who went with his daughter and wife (I’m assuming that’s what they were), and I felt his discomfort every time I felt him squirm where the movie “pulled no punches” with its ”real world” observations, and I have to applaud it just for that.

My husband and I were talking about it and even though he was kind of iffy about parts of it, when we gave it meaningless scores, he actually scored the movie higher than I did.

Greta Gerwig is a unique talent with something to say and isn’t afraid to say it, and I want to see everything she’s going to create in the future.

Spoiler

By far, my favorite parts were the quieter moments such as the part where Barbie is observing the real world and the humans who inhabit it.

TL;DR: It’s a manifesto disguised as a “fun” movie about the most famous and impactful doll in the world. That would usually annoy me, but in 2023 where subtlety and subtext just doesn’t work for the messages Barbie is espousing with so many “smart” people working overtime to convince us to “vote” to pull back on rights all over the place, I’m here for it.

I may rewatch Frances Ha, 20th Century Women, and Mistress America because I miss her screen presence, but I’ll definitely do a Lady Bird/Little Women double feature soon.

 

[Allskate]

They might be the ones that need to embrace that concept the most.

Yes, though I also think that this was good for girls who have not yet internalized certain expectations/demands.

Spoiler

Just a couple of weeks ago, I was discussing fractured fairytales with my niece (who clearly does not go to school in Florida). She had to write her own fractured fairytale for school. She chose not to include marriage or romantic love in her fairytale and to have the protagonist dream of something other than a prince to carry her away to his castle.

 

[starrynight]

Fascinating marketing by Mattel though.

It’s quite funny though….

We are now in an alternative universe where if you don’t like Barbie you’re a misogynist.

Lol a few weeks ago, plenty of people would have argued that Barbie is a symbol of misogyny. That buying her for your daughter was sexist, enforced gender roles etc. Certainly that was a popular line of thought when I was a teen.

A new wave of Barbie marketing by Mattel. An image makeover.

I was wondering why they made this movie to be such a blunt instrument on feminist themes and now it’s all clicked.

The world has probably sat through one of the largest scale marketing campaigns, brand rejuvenation and ads for a product ever.

 

[Aussie Willy]

The Barbie boycott isn’t working.

Box Office: ‘Barbie’ Opens to Record-Setting $155 Million, ‘Oppenheimer’ Shatters Expectations With $80 Million Debut

"Barbie" and "Oppenheimer" shattered expectations, fueling the fourth-biggest box office weekend in history.

variety.com

One of the commentators on Tiktok talked about the opening weekend and the "boycott". They showed a map where the biggest openings were. They were all Republican states.

I saw it last night and had a good time with it. Ryan Gosling was hilarious. Without giving anything away there was one scene where I thought they must have had to do 100 takes because I am sure both Ryan and Margot would have been cracking up.

 

[PeterG]

A House Made Of Splinters is a must-see Oscar-nominated 2022 documentary. It’s about a special home in Lysychansk (eastern Ukraine) where children are (were?) taken when their home life becomes unstable. The movie focusses on three young people and sometimes you see how sweet these kids are and at other times you see how heartbreaking their lives are. The movie is beautifully put together and will definitely pull at your heartstrings. The staff are saints for doing whatever they can to help these children get through such a difficult time.

Trailer for A House Made Of Splinters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQVr8stsecM&t=14s

 

[starrynight]

The Barbie boycott isn’t working.

Box Office: ‘Barbie’ Opens to Record-Setting $155 Million, ‘Oppenheimer’ Shatters Expectations With $80 Million Debut

"Barbie" and "Oppenheimer" shattered expectations, fueling the fourth-biggest box office weekend in history.

variety.com

I am so fascinated. So Mattel/Barbie started a culture war that no one really asked for to flip the social attitudes about their product.

It’s like something out of The Boys or Black Mirror.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I am so fascinated. So Mattel/Barbie started a culture war that no one really asked for to flip the social attitudes about their product.

It’s like something out of The Boys or Black Mirror.

The only people making it a culture war are those who are carrying on about it's "wokeness".

Everyone else is just watching it as a movie.

 

[made_in_canada]

The only people making it a culture war are those who are carrying on about it's "wokeness".

Everyone else is just watching it as a movie.

I agree that there’s a segment of people making a bigger deal about the movie than it warrants. It can just be a movie. It is marketing too though and it’s undeniably a cultural phenomenon. I’m sure that Mattel welcomed a rebrand. What better way than a wildly successful movie? Barbie needed to be taken into the 21st century, imo. Which I say as a parent of a young girl, and also someone who has worked in the toy industry for many years.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I agree that there’s a segment of people making a bigger deal about the movie than it warrants. It can just be a movie. It is marketing too though and it’s undeniably a cultural phenomenon. I’m sure that Mattel welcomed a rebrand. What better way than a wildly successful movie? Barbie needed to be taken into the 21st century, imo. Which I say as a parent of a young girl, and also someone who has worked in the toy industry for many years.

We have a show in Australia called Gruen that analyses marketing and advertising. They were commenting about what an amazing marketing campaign it is. But it is the way these days with other toys (Lego) or video games. I think Barbie will be the most successful in this regard.

But when people start complaining about a deliberately inaccurate map as being something more than it is is just ridiculous.

 

[VGThuy]

Fascinating marketing by Mattel though.

It’s quite funny though….

We are now in an alternative universe where if you don’t like Barbie you’re a misogynist.

Lol a few weeks ago, plenty of people would have argued that Barbie is a symbol of misogyny. That buying her for your daughter was sexist, enforced gender roles etc. Certainly that was a popular line of thought when I was a teen.

A new wave of Barbie marketing by Mattel. An image makeover.

I was wondering why they made this movie to be such a blunt instrument on feminist themes and now it’s all clicked.

The world has probably sat through one of the largest scale marketing campaigns, brand rejuvenation and ads for a product ever.

I see your point and I agree with it in parts. However, my ultimate takeaway is slightly different even though I know marketing and consumerism is a huge part of the reason this movie was made.

As you know, the critiques of Barbie you have brought up was addressed in the film and I actually felt that the movie didn’t say Barbie solved anything regarding the very real critiques you brought up that were also brought up in movie and weren’t really disputed. As you saw by the ending,

Spoiler

nothing actually changed “in the real world” and they showed Mattel being run by only men. For better or worse, the truth is, despite all the valid critiques that you saw when you were a teen, Barbie’s popularity never wavered much and its fanbase is still mostly women. So many women still see value in the product even with the legitimate critiques about it. I believe the movie showed these things accurately and the “truth” is more nuanced and in the middle.

.

I am so fascinated. So Mattel/Barbie started a culture war that no one really asked for to flip the social attitudes about their product.

It’s like something out of The Boys or Black Mirror.

Regarding your comment that Mattel “started culture war that nobody asked for”, Barbie didn’t start that war. We’re already living in the reality the movie portrays. Gerwig just made with a script after being asked to take a crack at it after other people couldn’t produce one that anybody wanted to film. Once she accepted the assignment on a lark, she and Noah Baumbach became more and more inspired in their brainstorming sessions. It was a surprise that Mattel actually approved of it after they turned down many others screenplays by other writers. Then, Gerwig’s name attracted many top actors and Robbie only wanted Gerwig to direct it if she was going to star in it.

I believe Mattel just wanted to make a movie to market its doll and “accidentally” found a way to market it in a new way thanks to Gerwig’s script submission. My sister, who has been a fan of Barbie, told me the Barbie product has become more and more progressive for years before this movie was in the works.

To me, the ones who “created” this “culture war that nobody asked for” was all the other people who decided make a big deal about its open attack on

Spoiler

the patriarchy

that made it into a needless war and ended up helping the movie’s marketing. And ironically, it did the best in what are considered “red states” even though I hate the blue state/red state thing as it’s only a thing thanks to the electoral college and ignores the more accurate red/blue make up of the country.

If anybody started “the culture war that nobody asked for”, then it wasn’t Gerwig or even Mattel but those who types who devoted countless posts about it and even 40 minute videos attacking its message. But who ate up the “ammo” the movie shot out? The American movie-going public… so obviously, the movie’s message resonated with enough people to make the movie worth making.

 

[Aussie Willy]

What I found interesting on a FB post promoting Barbie for Hoyts Cinemas in Australia, were a heap of people complaining that they were not showing Sounds of Freedom (and at the same time dissing Barbie as crap). But it was quite disturbing that many of the comments were from people who were complaining it was all some conspiracy to hide the movie.

Then today there was another FB post by Hoyts saying it is being shown. Again I found the discussion around it felt very strange. Not just your usual "I can't wait to see this" or "I think it will be rubbish". It was almost as if the people posting were obsessed with this.

I know there has been a lot of talk about QAnon ties to it. What are people making of this?

 

[MacMadame]

One of the commentators on Tiktok talked about the opening weekend and the "boycott". They showed a map where the biggest openings were. They were all Republican states.

This doesn't surprise me at all. The thing about boycotts is that if you are asking people to give up something they really, really want, it's going to make it that much harder for the boycott to succeed. There are a lot of people who love Barbie. She's one popular doll and one that many associated with their childhood so there is a nostalgia factor as well.

It helps that the movie was well made with good actresses and a great director.

I wouldn't be surprised if ticket sales for the movie tracked Barbie merchandise sales pretty closely.

I know there has been a lot of talk about QAnon ties to it. What are people making of this?

As little as possible. I try not to give The Q any oxygen.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Saw this trailer when I saw Barbie (which was a cute satire movie though I never really played with Barbies as a girl).

Gran Turismo - Looks fun. Excited to see David Harbour and Orlando Bloom again. Comes out next month.

The Challengers - Looks good, seems to be a good comedy/drama for Zendaya after Dune 2. Also looking forward to seeing Josh O’Connor. Was originally supposed to come out in September but it’s now pushed to late April 2024.

 

[watchthis!!]

Actor Kevin Spacey found not guilty on sexual assault charges in London
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/actor-kevin-spacey-found-not-140100481.html

It appears he has been cleared of all charges in both America and the U.K. Which makes this from wikipedia confusing:

In 2020, Spacey and his production companies M. Profitt Productions and Trigger Street Productions were ordered to pay $31 million to MRC, the studio that produced House of Cards, for violating its sexual harassment policy. Spacey appealed to have the arbitration award overturned, but the request was denied on August 4, 2022.

If all charges against Spacey has been dropped, I am unsure why he had to pay up 31 million. That's a big amount! It couldn't be that he was fired and then had to pay 31 million based just on allegations, right? Maybe something happened on set that isn't mentioned at wikipedia? If that was true, I would think there would be a lawsuit. I'm confused.

 

[PeterG]

Barbiemania is sweeping Russia, but the blockbuster film won't be released there

While the movie is not showing in Russia. Not legally anyway, like all other U.S. films. But Barbiemania seems to have taken over Russian parliament. No word yet from Vladimir Putin.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'm surprised that Kamila Valieva doesn't already have a Barbie exhibition.

 

[Allskate]

If all charges against Spacey has been dropped, I am unsure why he had to pay up 31 million.

Because he was found to have breached a contract by engaging in sexual harassment and causing financial harm:

‘House of Cards’ Producer Wins $31 Million in Arbitration Against Kevin Spacey

MRC has won a $31 million award, after an arbitrator found that Kevin Spacey breached his contract on 'House of Cards.'

variety.com

 

[MacMadame]

Because he was found to have breached a contract by engaging in sexual harassment and causing financial harm:

‘House of Cards’ Producer Wins $31 Million in Arbitration Against Kevin Spacey

MRC has won a $31 million award, after an arbitrator found that Kevin Spacey breached his contract on 'House of Cards.'

variety.com

Also, the standards for an employment contract are much lower than a criminal trial. So just because the criminal charges were dropped doesn't mean the contract can't be enforced.

 

[vgerdes]

It's going to be really interesting to see if Spacey can salvage anything of his career. I know I look at him a lot differently than I did before these allegations started becoming public. Once upon a time, I enjoyed his movies and thought he was a wonderful actor. Now there is definitely a cringe factor when I see him on screen.

 

[Allskate]

Also, the standards for an employment contract are much lower than a criminal trial. So just because the criminal charges were dropped doesn't mean the contract can't be enforced.

Plus, it's different times and conduct involved with the sexual harassment during "House of Cards."

 

[watchthis!!]

Because he was found to have breached a contract by engaging in sexual harassment and causing financial harm:

‘House of Cards’ Producer Wins $31 Million in Arbitration Against Kevin Spacey

MRC has won a $31 million award, after an arbitrator found that Kevin Spacey breached his contract on 'House of Cards.'

variety.com

Thank you. There's good info in that article. But I remained somewhat confused, so I was grateful for...

Also, the standards for an employment contract are much lower than a criminal trial. So just because the criminal charges were dropped doesn't mean the contract can't be enforced.

This clears up some of my confusion, but then new questions pop into my head. So while Spacey was cleared of all charges in two different courts of two different countries, a television studio brought down a harsher judgement than the legal system (of two different countries, no less).

Another thing, the TV studio got their 31 million dollar payback. But if Spacey harassed people on the set of House Of Cards (allegedly as they say on talk shows), do they get a share of that 31 million? Or are they left without legal justice as well as zero financial compensation?

It's going to be really interesting to see if Spacey can salvage anything of his career. I know I look at him a lot differently than I did before these allegations started becoming public. Once upon a time, I enjoyed his movies and thought he was a wonderful actor. Now there is definitely a cringe factor when I see him on screen.

Spacey had a movie that come out in 2022 called The Man Who Drew God. It's an Italian production, I believe and co-starred Faye Dunaway. And imdb.com lists three completed movies awaiting a release.

Kevin Spacey says he's 'enormously grateful' after being cleared in U.K. trial. What's next for the actor?
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/kevin-spacey-says-hes-enormously-190512616.html

"There are people right now who are ready to hire me the moment I am cleared of these charges in London," the "House of Cards" actor said ahead of the trial.

Strangely, in this article, the director of one of his completed movies says, "They want to see Kevin acting. Nobody stops listening to Michael Jackson." Unsure if this was a good comparison to make???

 

[Allskate]

This clears up some of my confusion, but then new questions pop into my head. So while Spacey was cleared of all charges in two different courts of two different countries, a television studio brought down a harsher judgement than the legal system (of two different countries, no less).

Another thing, the TV studio got their 31 million dollar payback. But if Spacey harassed people on the set of House Of Cards (allegedly as they say on talk shows), do they get a share of that 31 million? Or are they left without legal justice as well as zero financial compensation?

The people who were harassed on House of Cards weren't the ones who sued in that case. It was a breach of contract case brought by the production company, not a sexual harassment tort case brought by the victims of the sexual harassment. The damages are to compensate for the financial loss that Spacey caused to the production company. The people who were harassed on House of Cards are not necessarily left without money or another form of justice. They can bring their own civil cases and they can try to press criminal charges.

I think you may mistakenly believe that these House of Cards sexual harassment victims were involved in the cases where Spacey was acquitted or otherwise prevailed. The people harassed on House of Cards are not the alleged victims in the other cases. Again, the House of Cards harassment case involves different times and conduct than the other cases do (some of which involve incidents that are three decades old). Although a civil case has a lower standard of proof than a criminal case, that is not the only reason for the different results. In addition to involving different people and different conduct (and possibly witnesses), the House of Cards case also is the most recent, which also is likely to make it easier to prove.

 

[PeterG]

Yesterday was the plan to go see Barbie. Went for lunch with friends beforehand. 90 minutes before the show, we checked for seats. The theatre was 75% sold out at that point. Only the first three rows, a handful of tickets on the far side and then another handful of single seats were still available. I decided not go as I like to sit in the back row to the side. Basically away from all other people.

Today we were going to see Oppenheimer in IMAX. My friends texted to say they were on their way to get lunch and then to meet me at the theatre. Then they called to say they weren't coming as they checked the seat availability online and it was sold out. Again, this was 90 (or more) minutes before the movie was to start.

Movies in theatres are back!!