Let's Talk Movies #36 - 2020 - Yep it is a new decade

Sarrie

Well-Known Member
Messages
72
Aloha was another movie that was blasted for whitewashing a character. But this movie was written and directed by Cameron Crowe from an original idea. Emma Stone's character is one quarter Chinese and one quarter Hawaiian. And part of her story is her frustration that from her appearance, she does not look Chinese or Hawaiian at all. (So in a way, she has to prove time and time again that being both Chinese and Hawaiian is truly a part of her, even though no one thinks she is because of her appearance.) Aloha has one of the best behind the scenes DVD extra of recent memory. The first chapter is all about Hawaii and how it was important that Hawaii and its people were treated with respect. Hawaiian people talked about how this movie was important to them and to their livelihood (as a lot, or even most, of the crew were Hawaiian). And Bumpy Kanahele was cast as himself, Kanahele being "Hawaiian nationalist leader and titular head of the Principality Nation of Hawai'i." (source: wikipedia)

So I don't understand why so many people dumped on this movie. There have been a lot of movies set in Hawaii that were not specifically about Indigenous Hawaiian people. From what I can recall, this movie features more Indigenous Hawaiian cast members than any other big Hollywood movie set in Hawaii that I can think of.

Okay, now...the movie. I quite liked it! The story is really good, and what a cast. Bradley Cooper, Emma Stone, Rachel McAdams, Bill Murray, John Krasinski, Danny McBride, and Alec Baldwin. Plus the two kids cast as Rachel and John's children were very strong. And as a bonus, the soundtrack includes some fantastic 80's pop hits. :D

Trailer for Aloha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPU3uoXcLBU
Did they even search for a an actor who had a similar background to portray the role or did it go to Stone because she was "hot" at the moment? The film's Wikipedia entry says she was the first to be cast so my guess is no and that's where the problem lies. A white actor shouldn't have been cast in that role period in my opinion. As someone who is mixed but of Native American/White ancestry I can tell you there are a lot of us who feel that we don't "fit" into either culture we belong too and I'm sure with a casting search they could have found a more appropriate choice. But with that choice they would have lost the buzz that came with casting Stone.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,023
Aloha was another movie that was blasted for whitewashing a character. But this movie was written and directed by Cameron Crowe from an original idea. Emma Stone's character is one quarter Chinese and one quarter Hawaiian. And part of her story is her frustration that from her appearance, she does not look Chinese or Hawaiian at all. (So in a way, she has to prove time and time again that being both Chinese and Hawaiian is truly a part of her, even though no one thinks she is because of her appearance.) Aloha has one of the best behind the scenes DVD extra of recent memory. The first chapter is all about Hawaii and how it was important that Hawaii and its people were treated with respect. Hawaiian people talked about how this movie was important to them and to their livelihood (as a lot, or even most, of the crew were Hawaiian). And Bumpy Kanahele was cast as himself, Kanahele being "Hawaiian nationalist leader and titular head of the Principality Nation of Hawai'i." (source: wikipedia)

So I don't understand why so many people dumped on this movie. There have been a lot of movies set in Hawaii that were not specifically about Indigenous Hawaiian people. From what I can recall, this movie features more Indigenous Hawaiian cast members than any other big Hollywood movie set in Hawaii that I can think of.

Okay, now...the movie. I quite liked it! The story is really good, and what a cast. Bradley Cooper, Emma Stone, Rachel McAdams, Bill Murray, John Krasinski, Danny McBride, and Alec Baldwin. Plus the two kids cast as Rachel and John's children were very strong. And as a bonus, the soundtrack includes some fantastic 80's pop hits. :D

Trailer for Aloha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPU3uoXcLBU
You really don’t understand why so many dumped on the movie based on the casting of Emma Stone? I’m not saying agree or not come up with other examples of non-Hawaiian actors playing characters of Hawaiian-descent to show how selective this “outrage” may be, but understanding why there may be indigenous Hawaiians and others who may have been upset. I’m sure there were Hawaiian actors of similar heritage of the Stone character who has the same issues of having to prove her Hawaiian heritage due to not looking “Hawaiian enough”. That’s actually a huge issue among communities who are of mixed race of all kinds.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
58,648
As someone born in Hawaii but only lived there as an adult (i.e., not raised there from birth), IME the issues of race are very complicated and there is a lot of emphasis on being Kamaʻaina if you are visibly white. I think that makes the situation even more fraught than both being mixed and/or making a movie about the issue set somewhere where the dominant ethnicity is white.

The issue of casting and how much the actor has to match certain characteristics of the part is also complex. Did that character have to be played by an actor with exactly 1/4 Chinese, 1/4 Native Hawaiian, and 1/2 white genes? That seems excessive to me.

Mainly the issue is that white straight able-bodied actors are always getting to play any part regardless while POC, LGBTQ+, and disabled people seem to only be allowed to play POC, gay, and disabled parts respectively. It's rare when someone in a minority (or disabled or anything else that marginalizes them in our society) plays a part originally written for the majority but not the other way around. So being sensitive to that is important while also accepting that it is acting and that means playing a part that doesn't have to be 100% who you are.

It's possible Stone was cast because she was a hot commodity back then but if that was the reason (and not her acting), it definitely backfired and possibly tanked the movie. (Though I think the previews didn't do a good job of selling it either.)
 

PeterG

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,624
Did they even search for a an actor who had a similar background to portray the role or did it go to Stone because she was "hot" at the moment?

I would guess they did because on the first part of "The Making Of Aloha" DVD extra, they talk a fair bit about who would play Bumpy. They searched and searched and couldn't seem to find someone right to do the role. Finally, Crowe went to Bumpy himself and said, "Is there any chance...?" And Bumpy said yes. They show Bumpy and Bradley filming a scene and when it becomes too difficult for Bumpy to continue, he breaks character and Bradley is so supportive and tells him what a great job he is doing. But for the role of Allison, I'm guessing you are correct in that for the two lead roles, they wanted two people who could draw in an audience.

Also, Crowe has said that he began writing this story in 2007, so there was seven years for them to consider actresses who were one quarter Hawaiian, one quarter Chinese and half white. Since they worked so hard to fill the much smaller role of Bumpy, I would assume they put in as much effort to find the best possible choice for Allison Ng.

The film's Wikipedia entry says she was the first to be cast so my guess is no and that's where the problem lies. A white actor shouldn't have been cast in that role period in my opinion.

The only Hawaiian actress I'm aware of is Tia Carrere. Tia was born in Hawaii and is of Filipino and Chinese descent. But she's 22 years older than Emma Stone and the character of Allison has her whole career ahead of her, so the age was wrong. Plus Carrere didn't have the box office clout of Stone, whose casting helped Crowe get the 37 to 52 million budget (as stated at wikipedia) that he needed to get this movie made.

As someone who is mixed but of Native American/White ancestry I can tell you there are a lot of us who feel that we don't "fit" into either culture we belong too and I'm sure with a casting search they could have found a more appropriate choice. But with that choice they would have lost the buzz that came with casting Stone.

As a member of the LGBTQ+ community, I wonder about straight people playing LGBTQ+ roles. I don't remember anyone voicing objections to the casting of these people/roles:

Brendan Fraser in The Whale
Timothée Chalamet (and Armie Hammer) in Call Me By Your Name
Cate Blanchett in Carol
Taron Egerton in Rocketman
Saoirse Ronan and Kate Winslet in Ammonite
Nick Robinson in Love, Simon
Ewan McGregor in Halston
Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl
Colin Firth in A Single Man (and Supernova)
Charlize Theron (and Christina Ricci) in Monster
Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain
Rami Malek in Bohemian Rhapsody
Annette Bening and Julianne Moore in The Kids Are All Right
Sean Penn in Milk

and

Stanley Tucci in The Devil Wears Prada
Stanley Tucci in Burlesque
Stanley Tucci in Supernova
Stanley Tucci in The Daytrippers
Stanley Tucci in Little Chaos

And these are only the bigger names in movies of recent memory. If we go back to the 90's and earlier... :eek: :eek: :eek: The list will get much longer!!
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,023
The only Hawaiian actress I'm aware of is Tia Carrere. Tia was born in Hawaii and is of Filipino and Chinese descent. But she's 22 years older than Emma Stone and the character of Allison has her whole career ahead of her, so the age was wrong. Plus Carrere didn't have the box office clout of Stone, whose casting helped Crowe get the 37 to 52 million budget (as stated at wikipedia) that he needed to get this movie made.
And we will probably never have a Hawaiian actress audiences are "aware of" enough to be box office draws if casting like this continues.
As a member of the LGBTQ+ community, I wonder about straight people playing LGBTQ+ roles. I don't remember anyone voicing objections to the casting of these people/roles:
The race v. sexual orientation (ignoring the intersectionality of LGBTQ+ actors who are also black, Asian, Pacific Islander, Latino, etc.) is an interesting comparison and plays into ideas of "covering" or "passing" and how society views race vs. sexual orientation and how those communities are defined, categorized, and treated by American society.

Regarding non-LGBTQ+ actors playing LGBTQ+ roles, that's something that has been discussed a lot, especially lately, and it seems very nuanced. First, it was seen as a career killer to come out of the closet and Rupert Everett even advised young actors to not come out of the closet as late as the late 2000s-ish. A lot of it was because actors would be "branded" if they came out and would lose out on many roles they have have done well in and could have been cast in if not for their sexual orientation being out because studios felt the audience wouldn't buy an "out" actor as playing "straight", especially if it was a cis-male role. So, there weren't a lot of "out" actors to create a pool to choose from for a very long time, and the amount of "out" actors are much smaller than many who may be members of the LGBTQ+ community but aren't out, even today.

Furthermore, getting films to address LGBTQ+ specific issues was already a hard sell for mainstream studios, so they would want to put a straight, "non-threatening" actor in the role to get financing to make the project "worth it". Even then, not everybody seemed happy but "accepted" the "reality" until they could no longer take it anymore, which is why there's much more fuss about non-LGBTQ actors playing LGBTQ+ characters but it's not something that has gained as much traction as "race" since "race" seems to much more understood than sexual orientation. So, the box office thing still plagues casting choices for both LGBTQ+ roles and roles for POC actors.

Whitewashing was very pervasive to the point that there is still recent history of it and that it still happens, and looking at the entire history of white actors playing characters of other ethnicities and races that aren't close to who they are, boy did it happen for a very long time... check out of the history of black face, yellow face, all kinds of faces, darkening the skin colors of white (and Latino/a!) actors in West Side Story to make them look more stereotypically Latino, etc. And yet there were hardly any stars or working actors of color to match the rate of white stars, who would get the leading one or two sizable substantive role that was a person who was not "white".

It's kind of a big issue and I do see how people can argue around it, and give examples of where it was "okay" in the past, but times do change, generations grow up and demand more, and old ways of doing things may no longer be accepted at the same level. And again, when there are already few roles written for POC and those roles not given to those actors, it just hits a nerve that had been repeatedly pinched for a long time.

Brendan Fraser in The Whale
Timothée Chalamet (and Armie Hammer) in Call Me By Your Name
Cate Blanchett in Carol
Taron Egerton in Rocketman
Saoirse Ronan and Kate Winslet in Ammonite
Nick Robinson in Love, Simon
Ewan McGregor in Halston
Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl
Colin Firth in A Single Man (and Supernova)
Charlize Theron (and Christina Ricci) in Monster
Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain
Rami Malek in Bohemian Rhapsody
Annette Bening and Julianne Moore in The Kids Are All Right
Sean Penn in Milk

and

Stanley Tucci in The Devil Wears Prada
Stanley Tucci in Burlesque
Stanley Tucci in Supernova
Stanley Tucci in The Daytrippers
Stanley Tucci in Little Chaos

And these are only the bigger names in movies of recent memory. If we go back to the 90's and earlier... :eek: :eek: :eek: The list will get much longer!!
Notice the skin color of almost all of the actors you've named outside of Rami Malek. Further, we're also assuming all of these actors are totally not LGBTQ+ despite most of them probably never publicly declaring they are.
 

Sarrie

Well-Known Member
Messages
72
The only Hawaiian actress I'm aware of is Tia Carrere. Tia was born in Hawaii and is of Filipino and Chinese descent. But she's 22 years older than Emma Stone and the character of Allison has her whole career ahead of her, so the age was wrong. Plus Carrere didn't have the box office clout of Stone, whose casting helped Crowe get the 37 to 52 million budget (as stated at wikipedia) that he needed to get this movie made.
Nicole Scherzinger could have been a possibility and while not Chinese she is mixed Hawaiian, Filipino and Ukrainian which is much closer than Emma Stone is. Look at the casting search they did for Moana that discovered Auli'i Cravalho who is mixed Hawaiian, Chinese, Puerto Rican, Portuguese and Irish. There are actors out there who would have been a more appropriate choice but they went with Stone because of box office draw.

Also just to note I'm not bashing Emma Stone's acting ability at all just her appropriateness for the role in question.
 

watchthis!!

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,774
The first reviews are in and they're extremely positive with some Oscar buzz:


I would be happy for comedies to be acknowledge more at the Oscars. No reason why they shouldn't start with Barbie! :D

Ryan Gosling seems to be getting a lot of early attention. If he does end up with an Oscar nomination, it looks like there's a trend with his nominations going from the serious Half Nelson to the musical La La Land and now with light and funny Barbie.

Let's not forget there's a lot of cast members to enjoy, including America Ferrera, Kate McKinnon, Issa Rae, Rhea Perlman, Simu Liu, Dua Lipa, John Cena, Helen Mirren, Michael Cera, Emerald Fennell and Will Ferrell.
 

PeterG

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,624
Re: Aloha

I agree that it should have been someone from the BIPOC community cast in the role of Ng. But to get a budget approved for a big Hollywood release, you have to have big names. Or a track record of hit films. Cameron Crowe has had only had two big hit movies, Jerry Maguire and Vanilla Sky.

It’s not a coincidence that Crowe’s only big successes starred the biggest actor in Hollywood. So the writing was on the wall that with Aloha, Crowe HAD to cast big stars. Otherwise, I doubt he would have been given the money to make this movie. It’s entirely possible that Crowe wanted an actress that had both Chinese and Hawaiian ancestry (yet did not look like either). Financially, I just don’t see how that was possible for him or for anyone involved with this movie. Plus it says a lot that Bumpy Kanahele wanted to be a part of Aloha, even with Emma Scott playing Ng.

I do understand why people disliked the casting of Emma Stone. But it’s show business and if creators don’t make a profit, your days are numbered. Which seems to be the case for Cameron Crowe as he has not made a fiction film since Aloha.

I think that things are improving for BIPOC actors in the film world. Currently we are seeing more African-American creators and actors getting screen time. And a small positive change for Asian-Americans. I don’t see much improvement for Hispanic creators and actors at this time. And there is still major failure in regards to Indigenous creators and actors. Perhaps with very, very low-budget works stuff is happening, but those projects do not appear on most people’s radar. But at the very least, it's a place where under-represented people can build up a resume, get experience and hopefully begin to build a following. I hope over time, we will see greater inclusion for all kinds of people who have been under-represented for way too long.
 

ilovepaydays

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,295
Some trailers for movies coming out during the “Awards season”.

Napoleon - In theaters on (U.S.) Thanksgiving.

Ridley Scott. Joachim Phoenix. Napoleon. This looks GREAT!! 😀

Wonka - In theaters on December 15.

This looks good too! Timothee Chalamet! I think this is just one month after Dune 2 comes out.

Also - the rest of the cast looks great! Hugh Grant as an Oompa Loompa! 😆
 

jenny12

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,239
Wonka being from the director of Paddington gives me some optimism for it. Timothee Chalamet is my favorite young actor right now, but I’m not quite sure he’s right for the role. He came off as trying a bit too hard IMO in the trailer but I’m happy to be wrong.
 

vgerdes

Well-Known Member
Messages
699
Some trailers for movies coming out during the “Awards season”.

Napoleon - In theaters on (U.S.) Thanksgiving.

Ridley Scott. Joachim Phoenix. Napoleon. This looks GREAT!! 😀

Wonka - In theaters on December 15.

This looks good too! Timothee Chalamet! I think this is just one month after Dune 2 comes out.

Also - the rest of the cast looks great! Hugh Grant as an Oompa Loompa! 😆

Timothee Chalamet is going to rule the box office in November and December. I predict that both Wonka and Dune 2 will be huge hits.

Joaquin Phoenix really is a chameleon. I can't name two of his movies where he's played similar characters — unless you count Joker and Joker 2, LOL.
 

PeterG

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,624
Insidious Red Door was the top movie while Indiana Jones 5 dropped a respectable 54.6%.


Isn't 54.6% a big loss as far as box office goes? It's been a while since I kept a closer watch on the box office. But I thought a 25% drop woud be respectable. Over 50% seems like a big hit??
 

orbitz

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,493
"Napoleon" looks epic; I've read the Napoleon biography by Andrew Norton twice, so I'd love to see the film, but I'm sure it'll be too violent for me to be able to sit through the entire thing. One down side for me while watching the trailer is that Joaquin looks so unlike Napoleon that it takes me out of the picture every time there's a closeup of his face.
 

PeterG

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,624
"Napoleon" looks epic; I've read the Napoleon biography by Andrew Norton twice, so I'd love to see the film, but I'm sure it'll be too violent for me to be able to sit through the entire thing. One down side for me while watching the trailer is that Joaquin looks so unlike Napoleon that it takes me out of the picture every time there's a closeup of his face.

Is there a particular photograph of Napoleon that makes you think there's absolutely no resemblance?

;) :p
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
27,998
There seems to be some good movies coming up. Barbie is defintely on my list. For months the pre-publicity has been providing tantalising tasters. But with Margo Robbie in the lead I cannot resist. She gives it the credibility it needs to be taken seriously.
 

watchthis!!

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,774
I was so happy that I finally got around to watching Belle, the 2013 historical drama which stars Gugu Mbatha-Raw as the daughter of a (white) naval officer and an an enslaved African woman in the West Indies. The naval officer finds his daughter living in poverty after her mother has died. He takes her back to Britain and asks his parents to raise her as he continues with his naval career. I thought this was pretty much a perfect movie. I liked the story as Mbatha-Raw’s character makes her way in a world where she is very much out of place. And how her family does their best to treat her well, in spite of much of society having a problem with her very existence. This movie has an overwhelming amount of British talent in the cast, starting with Tom Wilkinson and Emily Watson as the grandparents and Miranda Richardson, Penelope Wilton, Sam Reid, Matthew Goode, Sarah Gadon, Tom Felton, and James Norton rounding out the cast. A must-see movie, in my opinion.
 

PeterG

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,624
It was on a double bill with Cheech and Chong’s Up in Smoke. We thought Up in Smoke was hilarious and the highlight of the afternoon.

I watched this the other day. I'm not sure when I saw it, but it's been quite a while. It came out in 1978, so that's a lot of time where I might have seen it! :lol: The scene that I remembered the most (and still thought was the funniest) was the woman who snorted Ajax, thinking it was cocaine. On a DVD extra, Tommy Chong talked about that actress was a comedian who improvised that bit on the spot. And the Battle Of The Bands finale was very good. Overall, this movie is quite stupid. But that's what they were going for. So they nailed it! But I think this movie is pretty much just for Cheech and Chong fans or people who like stoner comedies. I remember buying Cheech and Chong's 1974 single, "Earache My Eye" which had the equally amusing b-side, "Turn That Thing Down". That b-side is also featured in this movie in the Battle Of The Bands part of the movie. Stupid fun! :D

Trailer for Up In Smoke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpvv81988v0
 

watchthis!!

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,774
The Advocates is a really good 2018 documentary about the homeless people in Los Angeles and those who work to help them re-claim their lives. And I have to say that the people in this type of profession are virtual saints. How they can handle dealing with such a stressful and potentially heartbreaking job day in and day out is really something. I was glad I got to see this movie and learn about how vast the issues are around unhoused people and how much work amazing people are doing to address this problem. One part I liked a lot was how one group started an after-school program where teens (and sometimes younger) get to help reaching out to the unhoused while getting a taste of reality at the same time.

Some interesting stats: 25% of America’s half a million homeless people are in Los Angeles. Almost two-thirds of homeless people are dealing with alcohol or drug addiction. And 30% of homeless people are living with serious mental health issues.
 

PeterG

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,624
PBS Detroit is airing the recent Oscar-nominated documentary "A House Made Of Splinters" tomorrow (Monday July 17th). The film is part of PBS's "POV" series. A bit about the movie from google:

In war-torn eastern Ukraine, a group of women run a home where they manage to create a warm place for children placed out of home due to violence or alcohol abuse.

Here's a trailer for the movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQVr8stsecM
 

manhn

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,802
I saw a movie called Language Lessons, starring Natalie Morales (who also directed it) and Mark Duplass (who is looking better with age), about a gay man from California who is gifted online Spanish lessons with Natalie, who lives in Costa Rica. Their lessons are done via Zoom, and the whole movie consists of Zoom conversations. Made during YKW, it is a wonderfully delightful romcom where the relationship is strictly platonic. Really enjoyed it.
 
Last edited:

Kasey

Fan of many, uber of none
Messages
16,366
I just saw "No Hard Feelings" with Jennifer Lawrence. I saw it because of J. Law, and the fact that she's such a funny person, she must be great at comedy, right? She was great in it, but the movie, meh. 5/10 maybe, and not as funny as I was hoping.
 

watchthis!!

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,774
I was liking Refuge at first, but as it progressed, the story went a bit off, kind of like the characters are a bit off. Krysten Ritter and Brian Geraghty are the main stars. Ritter is the older sister to two siblings who takes care of them when their parents just decide to up and leave one day. Geraghty is new to town and meets Ritter in a bar. They form a friendship/romance/friends with benefits thingy or whatever. Each character is a bit off and not in an interesting way, but in a way that makes you wonder about the screenwriter (and their choices or motivation). Basically the movie is about whether these two have a chance at a real relationship. And if Ritter's two siblings will be agreeable to this. If you like indie dramas and/or the cast (Logan Huffman plays Ritter's brother) then you might consider this one. If not, watch either of the last two movies I posted about. :D
 

PeterG

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,624
Last week I watched To The Wonder, a 2012 Terrence Malick film. Then the other day I started watching a 2017 movie, Song To Song. And almost right away, I thought, “Wow, is this ever like a Terrence Malick movie”! Turns out that’s because it is another of Malick’s movie but I just thought it was on my To See list for the cast: Ryan Gosling, Rooney Mara, Michael Fassbender, Natalie Portman, Val Kilmer, Holly Hunter and Cate Blanchett. While I was quite a fan of Malick’s early movies, his new ones seem like self-made parody. Like something you would see on a sketch comedy TV show. Malick doesn’t seem interested in writing a real script anymore. Instead he just writes poems for the actors to read after filming is done and which are then played over moving images. And the poems aren’t good. They come across as the work of a senior high school student drowning in self-absorption. The actors are directed to deliver these poems in quiet, breathy gasps which becomes very annoying...very quickly. :mad:

Song To Song comes across a bit better than To The Wonder (the latter movie wasting the talents of Ben Affleck, Olga Kurylenko, Rachel McAdams, and Javier Bardem). Song To Song actually has some dialogue where characters speak to one another. And there is progress in their storylines, even if mostly infuriating.

So I guess Malick is added to my list of directors to avoid like the plague, to which Wes Anderson also belongs. (Although I kind of liked The Grand Budapest Hotel, I must admit.) I can’t remember if Todd Solondz is also on this list as well. He hasn’t made a movie since 2016. Maybe by the time his next movie comes out, I’ll forgotten if he’s on my Naughty Director list or not. :lol:

Trailer for To The Wonder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTAzcTZTY1g

Trailer for Song To Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL0FYUpXuoo
 

Users who are viewing this thread

  • Top
    Do Not Sell My Personal Information