Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[Colonel Green]

I don't think that SafeSport would investigate a foreign skater training under a USFS-licensed coach. It isn't invesitgating Nikolaj Sorensen, who was training in the United States at the time of the incident discussed upthread.

The issue with Sorensen, I believe, was that by the time the incident was reported he was no longer training in the United States.

 

[peibeck]

Before casting nets into legally perilous waters by suggesting names, perhaps waiting to read Gracie's account would be in order first?

 

[On My Own]

Are you thinking of the coach Sergei Rozanov? It's pairs skater Alexei Roganov on the roster.

Also, why would Rozanov matter to USFS? To our knowledge, he's also not assaulted anyone, although he seems to be very skeevy at best.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Would SafeSport not investigate if the rape happened outside the US? Skaters host after-parties in their hotel rooms. She skated at GP France, Golden Spin, and Japan Open, too, in 2016-17.

 

[Prancer]

Can we stop speculating about names, please?

 

[Theatregirl1122]

It was a skater, not a coach. The event could have been Skate America or Nationals.

In 2016, yes. That doesn't mean the person is skating now.

 

[marshallpond]

when minors travel internationally to competition without family members (and sometimes with them). Is it the coach's responsibility to keep them safe? The federation officials?

The skaters go with the Team Leader from the USFS, and it is the Team Leader's responsibility to keep them safe and healthy. In JGP Gdansk, Kyoko Ina was the team leader. She made sure that skaters were on time at the shuttle to transport skaters from hotel to competition venue, and the team leader needed to know where they were if they were leaving the hotel; and she would go with them going around the city.

 

[Yuri]

I have placed my Amazon order for Gracie's book which will be released officially on Tuesday, so it won't be long until we all can read her official account of the situation rather than read snippets from the WSJ and other sources. Speculation isn't healthy. I hope she sells lots of copies!

I remember what skaters' parties were like during the 1980s and 1990s, although I never attended one of THOSE parties including after-parties (beyond the sanctioned US Nationals parties or international galas) with elite, older competitors in hotel rooms at major Olympic-eligible competitions like US Nationals and international competitions. But I knew plenty of skaters who did including my sibling. And plenty of female skaters with eating disorders. It should be a fascinating read.

 

[overedge]

It doesn't surprise me having dealt with SafeSport in the past and what we're hearing from other athletes about their particular brand of, well, seeming incompetence.

Poor Gracie.

I don't have any direct experience with SafeSport, not being in the US, but there have been a number of news stories saying that the amount of complaints it receives is far beyond the capacity of its staff to manage and investigate. Which says something about how dysfunctional the sport system is.

I've been in a "regular" workplace job that involved dealing with harassment/conduct complaints, and IME these take a considerable amount of time to manage, and to manage fairly. It's so important to follow the organization's procedures so that there's as little opportunity as possible for the outcome to be overturned on a process issue. It's sometimes very difficult to get information from the parties involved - it's amazing how busy alleged harassers and bullies can be if you're trying to book a time to interview them. There are often two very different versions of what happened, and maybe very few witnesses or corroborating information.

The processes I was involved in explicitly forbade lawyers from being involved - if the employees were unionized they could have a union representative with them, if not, they could have a support person. But neither the representative or the support person could participate in interviews or hearings. Having lawyers involved would have made the process even lengthier and more complicated.

All of this is to say that IMO SafeSport is trying to do the best it can with the resources it has. I don't think anyone there is deliberately dragging their feet or ignoring cases, but it seems to have way more work than it can handle - and the work it does is very time consuming and very detailed. If SafeSport had enough resources to properly manage the complaints it receives, then cases like Gracie's might not get "lost".

 

[kwanfan1818]

If I were the subject of the complaint, I would make as difficult and drawn out as possible so that my case was put aside and, hopefully, dropped, when a different Congressional committee comes on hard to dismantle what has been done.

 

[YukiNieve]

One time a parents of Japanese skaters told me that the JFSF does not allow their skaters to go to any after-skate parties except the official ones even when they are "adult." I thought it was a tough rule but now I see why.

 

[ballettmaus]

@gkelly I think at least having a registry of coaches/officials with action against them and investigations would help. Maybe not publicly for those under investigation, but a database available to skating directors.

Databases only make sense if they are used. I'm not sure if Germany is overly concerned with who works with minors. If memory serves, you do have to provide your police record to the authorities if you start as a preschool teacher, however, it is your responsibility to obtain it and pass it on and you don't get fingerprinted and undergo a proper background check like you do in the US. So, if there is a database, it probably should be the ISU that should stipulate that only coaches that have been checked out can be official coaches or something along those lines. I doubt that would happen. For one thing, it's the ISU. The other thing is that other countries will whine about data protection (and hide behind it because they don't want to go through the effort).

Is it not mandatory yet for US coaches to undergo a background check?

 

[once_upon]

Since you asked....

I first had access to alcohol when my parents gave me a sip of wine.

I have never used drugs.

And when I went off to college, I didn't go to frat parties. Not my scene.

I was fortunate enough to be in my long term relationship (55 years) from the time I was 15. Only partying I did in my first year of college was with him. I got totally drunk one time in my life and never again, but I was in his company and safe.

But I lived in a dorm where girls came in unable to stand up and held by their roommates. They didn't talk about "that night" of drinking but cried a lot. My niece was raped at her first frat party.

Several high school classmates got "that reputation" after keggers.

Depending on the age of the "adults" they often don't supervise. Sometimes they provide the liquor and drugs. Sometimes they are the person. Sometimes all three rolled into one.

EDITED - we've had high profile rich parents in the community who provided a great deal of alcohol for their son's HS graduation party. I believe there were over 100 MIP and the parents got charged for buying alcohol for minors.

We are talking about it because we are skating fans. But it's rampant across our society

 

[Debbie S]

Is it not mandatory yet for US coaches to undergo a background check?

Yes, a background check is part of SafeSport compliance and is required of coaches every year. But that's only going to catch those who have either been convicted or have a criminal (or SafeSport) case pending. I heard the first year they instituted the background check, they did pick up a number of 'red lights.'

I suspect once the initial ones were rooted out, most coaches pass each year. But as we all know, there are many assault cases that don't get reported. There is a huge backlog of SafeSport complaints (and even when a case is being investigated, that's no guarantee the coach won't be able to keep coaching, ex: Dalilah). And there are also some rinks that allow those suspended or banned by USFS/SafeSport/USOC to continue coaching b/c rink- run ice and activities are not subject to USFS rules. In those cases, the coach would have to have a criminal conviction to truly be banned. And as we all know about criminal prosecutions of sexual assault/abuse...

 

[~tapdancer~]

I figured out the unnamed coach in the SC case, I remember him when he competed. Even then, he gave me a creep vibe. Didn't follow him after retirement cause I didn't much like him. Sad stuff.

 

[MacMadame]

Thanks for the correction. I still wonder whether there were any minors present and where the responsible adults were.

At any official skating event, there may be official parties. But many more parties are not official. Therefore there are no "responsible adults". At important comps, the word goes around "Party in X's room!" and it goes from there. (And yes, this is very much like what happens in many High Schools and colleges.)

Locally, and because it's local, these parties take place at people's homes where it's much easier to slip away unnoticed and there are still no "responsible adults" because the party is being put on by other skaters who may be legally adults but barely. Because there is a range of ages training together, there are minors there as well as adults.

Is it not mandatory yet for US coaches to undergo a background check?

Anyone can be a coach. If a coach wants to belong to the PSA/USFS, there are some criteria but plenty of people coach outside any system. Rinks might require PSA/USFS/ISI membership but mostly they only care that the coach has insurance. And they also sometimes turn a blind eye to any unofficial coaching going on.

For example, there was a situation when I was still skating where a guy -- a former skater from Russia who wasn't particularly well-known -- who was coaching a young lady. He was not an official coach -- no credentials, no insurance, nothing official -- but he was definitely coaching a few students. On top of that, we were pretty sure they were sleeping together even though he was in his 30s and she was in HS.

And there was really nothing we could do about it. Her parents knew she was being "coached" by this mini-Morozov but all they could see was "Russian coach" and were sure he would take their daughter to the top.

So do US coaches undergo background checks? Define "US coaches." Because this dude was coaching in the US but USFS had no idea who he was.

 

[ballettmaus]

So do US coaches undergo background checks? Define "US coaches." Because this dude was coaching in the US but USFS had no idea who he was.

Between that and what Debbie S posted, it sounds like a database alone would not be enough without institutional changes/changes in the system.

 

[Frau Muller]

I have placed my Amazon order for Gracie's book which will be released officially on Tuesday, so it won't be long until we all can read her official account of the situation rather than read snippets from the WSJ and other sources. Speculation isn't healthy. I hope she sells lots of copies!

….

So have I. Can’t wait to receive it very soon!

 

[platniumangel]

It was a skater, not a coach. The event could have been Skate America or Nationals.

https://www.wsj.com/sports/olympics/gracie-gold-figure-skating-memoir-outofshapeworthlessloser-8e70b876?st=rurq2spsgs8du35&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

I don't think that SafeSport would investigate a foreign skater training under a USFS-licensed coach. It isn't invesitgating Nikolaj Sorensen, who was training in the United States at the time of the incident discussed upthread. Even so, Gold might have thought that SafeSport would investigate.

This is another reason why victims of sexual assault should report incidents to the police as well as other pertinent bodies such as SafeSport.

Nikolaj Sorensen was already living and training in Montreal at the time of the incident per the timeline. It appears he was visiting in the US when it occured but was training at IAM and representing Denmark.

 

[escaflowne9282]

Nikolaj Sorensen was already living and training in Montreal at the time of the incident per the timeline. It appears he was visiting in the US when it occured but was training at IAM and representing Denmark.

Actually, per timeline he wasn't even representing any country. He was still exploring his partnership with Crone but I believe they had no country affiliation . Splitting hairs, but IAM was also technically non existent at the time of the alleged incident.

In any case , I seem to remember, during the Cipres situation, someone who was affiliated with SafeSport posted on this board and stated that they looked heavily into Morgan Cipres and determined he had never had any affiliation with US skating, so there was nothing they could do against him.

I would imagine that whomever Gracie is talking about must have been an American skater otherwise SafeSport would have no relevance.

 

[coppertop1]

Frank Carroll's treatment of her too...

Yeah, and that. He wasn't the right coach. Old school tough love doesn't work for everyone

 

[overedge]

IIRC the coverage of the SafeSport complaint against Sorensen didn't specify that he was training in the US when the assault happened. The intent of filing the complaint was to have it on record in case he ever tries to get a job as a coach in the US in the future.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Yeah, and that. He wasn't the right coach. Old school tough love doesn't work for everyone

Having been through the mill with Christopher Bowman can't have helped matters, either.

The story about Carroll finding fourteen year old Christopher with a box of donuts, making him eat every one, then demanding the skater return to the ice and spin until he threw up, still upsets me.

 

[canbelto]

Wasn't Gracie's coach prior to Frank Carroll (Alex Ourashiev) also very old school and strict?

 

[Rainbow]

Databases only make sense if they are used. I'm not sure if Germany is overly concerned with who works with minors. If memory serves, you do have to provide your police record to the authorities if you start as a preschool teacher, however, it is your responsibility to obtain it and pass it on and you don't get fingerprinted and undergo a proper background check like you do in the US. So, if there is a database, it probably should be the ISU that should stipulate that only coaches that have been checked out can be official coaches or something along those lines. I doubt that would happen. For one thing, it's the ISU. The other thing is that other countries will whine about data protection (and hide behind it because they don't want to go through the effort).

Is it not mandatory yet for US coaches to undergo a background check?

Since Karel Fajfr was allowed to coach again after beeing sentenced to two years on parole and three years of professional ban for sexual abuse, general abuse and assault, I'm not convinced. Fast forward to 2019 and he was accused of assault again. The parent only knew of his history after the fact. They would have been responsible obviously. I don't know, if a database would really help, if people aren't able to just google the name. The question ist, why was Fajfr available and at a federale performance center nontheless in the first place? And don't get me started on the international athletes training with him and supporting his status. It really boggles the mind. In Stuttgart, where the original assault happened, he had and has still a house ban. So it is possible to take action.

 

[ptvvibezz]

Wasn't Gracie's coach prior to Frank Carroll (Alex Ourashiev) also very old school and strict?

Yes. I’ve heard stories of him and a skater (not Gracie) who have gotten into screaming matches on the ice in the middle of lessons

 

[nylynnr]

Yeah, and that. He wasn't the right coach. Old school tough love doesn't work for everyone

Actually, Gracie's portrait of Frank in her book is largely positive.

 

[ElleL]

Yes. I’ve heard stories of him and a skater (not Gracie) who have gotten into screaming matches on the ice in the middle of lessons

I witnessed some of these in person. I was skating on a session where Gracie took a really hard fall and was slow to get up. Instead of checking to see if she was OK, Alex yelled at her. He continued to yell at her for the rest of the session.

 

[Sylvia]

Feb. 8, 2024 article:

New victim comes forward after federal lawsuit filed against former Olympian and U.S. Figure Skating

A federal lawsuit was filed this week on behalf of two South Carolina women who were allegedly sexually abused by their coach, a former Olympian.

www.kktv.com

COLUMBIA, S.C. (KKTV) - A federal lawsuit was filed recently on behalf of two South Carolina women who were allegedly sexually abused by their coach, a former Olympian. The lawsuit did not identify the organization or coach, but on Thursday a news release identified the coach as Mark Cockerell and the organization as the U.S. Figure Skating Association. A third victim reportedly came forward after the lawsuit was filed.

 

[Vagabond]

Welcome back, @Sylvia !