Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

[starrynight]

I think that if you are a celebrity who wants to take on a cause, it's important to not frame it in a way that just means you're preaching to the choir.

As for the positive impact of this... well, true story, people at my work were actually teasing about therapy a couple of days ago, saying 'oh you could be like Prince Harry'. The public attitude (at least where I live) towards him is so negative at the moment, that I don't think his message is getting through to anyone but his hardcore fan base and when that's the case, he's not really getting much outreach or changing anyone's mind. The only parts of his special that have been publicised are the combative bits where he's criticising his family and that has completely eclipsed everything else that might have been in that show.

Somehow, he's gone from a very likeable persona whose appeal crossed all sorts of barriers, to someone who is very divisive and carries an image of bitterness and negativity. It's really not a good foundation to try to appeal to the masses on a cause.

Diana was a very popular person and as such, she could take up a cause and in the process change people's minds -- which is a lot more important than just re-affriming existing believers.

 

[floskate]

I think that if you are a celebrity who wants to take on a cause, it's important to not frame it in a way that just means you're preaching to the choir.

As for the positive impact of this... well, true story, people at my work were actually teasing about therapy a couple of days ago, saying 'oh you could be like Prince Harry'. The public attitude (at least where I live) towards him is so negative at the moment, that I don't think his message is getting through to anyone but his hardcore fan base and when that's the case, he's not really getting much outreach or changing anyone's mind. The only parts of his special that have been publicised are the combative bits where he's criticising his family and that has completely eclipsed everything else that might have been in that show.

Somehow, he's gone from a very likeable persona whose appeal crossed all sorts of barriers, to someone who is very divisive and carries an image of bitterness and negativity. It's really not a good foundation to try to appeal to the masses on a cause.

Diana was a very popular person and as such, she could take up a cause and in the process change people's minds -- which is a lot more important than just re-affriming existing believers.

Somehow? The - frankly shocking - reaction of your work colleagues to something as sensitive and important as therapy just goes to show how damaging the media are and how skewed people's opinions can become when only fed a certain narrative. But as Harry has already stated, he will continue regardless because it's that important to him. Just because you can't see it in your world, doesn't mean that people aren't listening and benefitting from what he is doing somewhere else.

 

[starrynight]

But as an enormous public figure, does he not have a responsibility to package his message in a way that doesn't tarnish it?

The point of trying to change public perceptions is that you can't be negative and polarising and then expect the public to snap to adoring attention at will.

But maybe he is just going to be one of those polarising figures that people either love or hate and that's how it will be.

And for sure, there's lots of polarising people (politicians, advocates etc) who half the population despise that do a lot of good stuff/affirmation for the people who support them. (Although I guess also really alienate the people who don't).

It's just weird that it's like this, given he was always a universally popular fellow. I almost still can't process that it's actually Harry caught up in all of this.

show how damaging the media are and how skewed people's opinions can become when only fed a certain narrative.

Well it's all out of the horses mouth, now, though as Harry is operating directly through the media himself.

If anything, Harry is a case of two narratives. The first when the media used to print the really positive 'fun loving Prince' angle which painted him as a lad who you'd all love to go to the pub with .... (which was probably an embellishment engineered by the Palace spin doctors) ... To the much more negative family wrecker / righteous lecturer image he now has.

So he's really experienced both the positive and negative of media spin, hasn't he? And sort of flung from one extreme to another in terms of public personas.

 

[floskate]

But as an enormous public figure, does he not have a responsibility to package his message in a way that doesn't tarnish it?

The point of trying to change public perceptions is that you can't be negative and polarising and then expect the public to snap to adoring attention at will.

Tarnish what? His reputation? Is he though? That might be what you believe but others can think differently. And what responsibility? To who? You?

Personally, I feel that an obviously broken and fragile man, who is very angry and had a giant grudge is probably not an ideal ambassador for mental health.

This is a whole lot of projection right here. Where is the actual evidence for angry, giant grudge, obviously broken etc?

 

[floskate]

Well it's all out of the horses mouth, now, though as Harry is operating directly through the media himself. It's not like it once was when people made up these quotes through 'sources'. All the stuff is just direct quotes from him. The stuff he's saying now is such good click bait, that it stands alone.

You mean when its misrepresented, misquoted and taken out of context? That is my issue with all of this. Everyone is ready to twist everything he says against him in an effort to shut him up. But he has a basic human right to speak out about his trauma and as much as you might want him to stop, he's not going to. Also, I would leave it to the people who actually run mental health awareness organisations to decide who is and is not an appropriate role model to bring awareness to their cause (as you clearly inferred that he wasn't in your now deleted comment).

 

[starrynight]

As I said, he's divisive. He divides people, as we can see in this thread.

And it's a bit of shame, because once upon a time, he had an ability to bring a universal attention onto his causes that cut across a lot of barriers. It's a shame that in a world of division, that has been lost.

 

[MsZem]

Without going into the merits of Harry's current approach, what he's doing in therapy (I wouldn't know) and the private lives of the BRF (I wouldn't know that either): Harry, for several years prior to meeting his wife, was involved with mental health issues in the UK through his work with his brother and sister-in-law (now under the Heads Together umbrella). It's certainly possible that he wasn't ready to deal with certain issues, or that marriage and parenthood made him aware of things he wasn't before. But the idea that people could get therapy - that he could benefit from therapy - certainly should have occurred to him.

Harry reportedly has, or at least had, a good relationship with Kate, and she actually attended therapy sessions with her brother. I am sure that she would have been happy to help Harry as well.

So basically, I don't question that Harry wasn't in a good place and needed help. I do question the current framing of his experience (or lack thereof) with therapy/mental health resources before he met Meghan.

 

[skategal]

Kate and Will are just as divisive if we take evidence from this thread. Should they not promote mental health as well?

 

[starrynight]

lol my FSU is now covered in these weird Meghan clickbait ads like 'You would not believe the hidden details in this photo' and 'You'll be shocked when you hear the Queen's reaction!'... etc etc Clicking around in here too much has thrown out my algorithm!

 

[kittyjake5]

Interesting reading the difference of opinions in this thread regarding Harry's recent revelations. Good points made on both sides. I only know what I read in
the media as I did not watch his recent show with Oprah or listen to his podcast. He has been given a platform to speak on his own mental health
issues and how he feels it stems from his dysfunctional family. The backlash in the media and especially social media
is not surprising to me and I think he knows this being in the public fishbowl his whole life. I always liked Harry and I think he is trying
his best to map out a future for himself and his family.

 

[taf2002]

Some of the backlash to Harry's relevations looks to me like they regret that he tarnished the image of Prince Charming. It seems they want him to be some one-dementional figure that they can revere without thinking of him as a living breathing person with feelings. Harry has made it clear that bottling up his feelings has not been healthy for him but his fans seem to want him to continue to keep his mouth shut about anything real. IMO that's not being a fan but what do I know?

 

[morqet]

But as an enormous public figure, does he not have a responsibility to package his message in a way that doesn't tarnish it?

The point of trying to change public perceptions is that you can't be negative and polarising and then expect the public to snap to adoring attention at will.

But why should we expect that someone who is still working through his trauma, much of which came from his dysfunctional family & the unrealistic expectations of how members of that family should be behaving in public, is going to be capable of being the unreproachable public figurehead? Human emotions are messy and unpredictable, we're all flawed, but that's not allowed in the Royal Family. Harry's saying he's only recently understood how much pain that has caused him (and other family members), and yet he's being criticized again now for not having the reactions that some people want him to have.

I don't think that saying that someone should be quiet until they've worked through their issues and can present them in a way that we choose to find socially acceptable is in anyway helpful.

 

[Jot the Dot Dot]

Ah, I think I found the source of Prince Harry's sorrows:https://imgur.com/a/SOnvCtG

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Harry should not be quiet until he feels better - it's helpful to show that mental health problems don't get wrapped up with a pretty bow and put away. Working out family relationships via tv camera is pretty much the definition of dysfunctional, though. He isn't breaking that cycle, he's perpetuating it.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm lucky I can have those sorts of conversations with her. Harry is clearly not able to do so with his father and family and of course Charles is, as usual, "apoplectic" or "incandescent" with rage (the usual tabloid description from their palace sources) about Harry talking about his trauma because it makes him look bad.

And there are other reports, from "Palace sources" which indicate that Charles is sad and distraught that Harry feels his childhood was so traumatic and painful, or that William is the one who is incandescent with his brother, and that he is very angry at Harry for discussing Diana's funeral again as that is something they had agreed to never discuss publicly after the interview they did for the 20th anniversary of her death in 2017. Of course, I think it's possible to be all of those things and still very much love your son/brother.

I do think Harry is damaging any chance of reconciliation and healing right now because he isn't really addressing the issues with the people who caused the pain and trauma. Saying all of this publicly is likely to only cause the "bad actors" in his narrative/understanding of his own life's journey, to feel defensive instead of receptive to what he is trying to express - that's a natural human reaction when you feel that you/your family have been attacked.

 

[MsZem]

Harry reportedly has, or at least had, a good relationship with Kate, and she actually attended therapy sessions with her brother. I am sure that she would have been happy to help Harry as well.

Since I mentioned James Middleton and his mental health issues, here's the column he wrote about his experiences a couple of years ago:

JAMES MIDDLETON: The torment of my secret mental illness

JAMES MIDDLETON: I know I’m richly blessed and live a privileged life. But it did not make me immune to depression. It is tricky to describe the condition. It is not merely sadness.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Middletons all attended therapy with him at one point or another. I wish Harry could have had similar support from his family.

Kate and Pippa Middleton Joined Their Brother James's Therapy When He Was Struggling With Depression

James Middleton revealed that all of his family members had joined him for a session or two—even the royal one.

www.townandcountrymag.com

 

[Karen-W]

Harry should not be quiet until he feels better - it's helpful to show that mental health problems don't get wrapped up with a pretty bow and put away. Working out family relationships via tv camera is pretty much the definition of dysfunctional, though. He isn't breaking that cycle, he's perpetuating it.

This times a trillion!

I have no issue with public figures speaking out about seeking therapy and counseling for mental health issues or for even going into the specifics of the types of therapy they received. But, right now, Harry is nowhere near being healed and mentally healthy, if he isn't able to speak to his family directly and personally, and he is, sadly, perpetuating some of the mistakes both of his parents made when he was a small child with these public interviews, even if he is wrapping them up in Archewell's mental health campaign.

 

[mjb52]

It just makes me sad to see that sibling relationship so weakened. One of those things that happens but it's still sad.

 

[VGThuy]

At least Harry isn't going to build an army and try to take over the throne like a few hundred years ago.

 

[mjb52]

Ha good point. And William isn't throwing him in a tower to rot away or exiling him. Things could be worse.

 

[MacMadame]

Harry has made it clear that bottling up his feelings has not been healthy for him but his fans seem to want him to continue to keep his mouth shut about anything real.

It's not his fans that are doing the bitching in this thread and telling him to shut up

 

[Karen-W]

It's not his fans that are doing the bitching in this thread and telling him to shut up

I don't think anyone who has expressed concern over how he is speaking about his mental health issues has said or even implied that he needs to "shut up." Rather, most of us are dubious as to what positive outcome there will be for him to speak out so publicly and candidly while he is still in a place of deep anguish and suffering.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'm reading some concerns that the way he is speaking out is not going to help him and his relationships to his family. I'm also reading other comments about how this is bad behavior, unfair to his family, unfair to his Family, simply not done, behavior people don't like or think shouldn't be acceptable from a member of the RF who should stick by the rules.

I'm not a Royalist -- I don't think heredity should determine role models, among other things, like government -- so I don't care about any social rules regarding his Family/The Firm, even if I share concerns that this may or may not help him. I don't doubt for a minute why the press/media is all in, but I'm not convinced it's purely exploitation and not a win/win.

 

[VGThuy]

Ha good point. And William isn't throwing him in a tower to rot away or exiling him. Things could be worse.

We’re still looking for the princes in the tower.

It’s pretty much accepted that Richard III killed them, right? Or was it Margaret Beaufort aka Henry VII’s mother?

 

[MsZem]

Ha good point. And William isn't throwing him in a tower to rot away or exiling him. Things could be worse.

We’re still looking for the princes in the tower.

It’s pretty much accepted that Richard III killed them, right? It was it Margaret Beaufort aka Henry VII’s mother?

Margaret Beaufort, as you may know, was descended from the originally illegitimate son of the Duke of Lancaster. The Beauforts were never supposed to be in the line of succession, even after they were legitimated.

Also in English history, Henry IV imprisoned his cousin King Richard II, who proceeded to die "mysteriously". And for fun going further back, there's always The Anarchy.

 

[VGThuy]

Margaret Beaufort, as you may know, was descended from the originally illegitimate son of the Duke of Lancaster. The Beauforts were never supposed to be in the line of succession, even after they were legitimated.

Also in English history, Henry IV imprisoned his cousin King Richard II, who proceeded to die "mysteriously". And for fun going further back, there's always The Anarchy.

English civil wars should just be called Family Feud.

 

[mjb52]

I need to read more about the Wars of the Roses. My knowledge of that, the 30 Year War, the 100 Year War, and other important parts of European history is pretty negligible other than the highlights. Even the Russian Revolution is mostly the cliff notes version. The problem is that there is so much of it all!

 

[MacMadame]

I don't think anyone who has expressed concern over how he is speaking about his mental health issues has said or even implied that he needs to "shut up."

People have said he should stop talking about this in public. That is saying he should shut up. There is no way to stop talking about it without shutting up.

Not only that, but pretty much all of this concern is coming from people who never had anything nice to say about Harry or Meghan before. So it's really just concern trolling. And not even very good concern trolling since it involves a lot of projection and mind-reading.

 

[MsZem]

I need to read more about the Wars of the Roses. My knowledge of that, the 30 Year War, the 100 Year War, and other important parts of European history is pretty negligible other than the highlights. Even the Russian Revolution is mostly the cliff notes version. The problem is that there is so much of it all!

I just read historical fiction. It's more fun that way.

The BRF is of course descended from the originally illegitimate Beaufort line but once you go that far back, they're pretty much descendants of everyone...

 

[VGThuy]

I just read historical fiction. It's more fun that way.

The BRF is of course descended from the originally illegitimate Beaufort line but once you go that far back, they're pretty much descendants of everyone...

Wasn't there a study that said almost all modern-day Europeans are descended from Charlemagne?