Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

[skatfan]

Did Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville marry for love?

Through his scandalous marriage to unlikely queen Elizabeth Woodville, Edward IV defied the expectation that he should use such a union as a diplomatic tool and instead prioritised love – or perhaps lust. Amy Licence, late medieval and early Tudor historian, explores their 19-year relationship…

www.historyextra.com

This is Henry VIII grandparents.

Yes in the Middle Ages secret weddings did happen but all kinds of issues arose see Edward IV and his caddying ways.

It use to be that all couples had to do was say vows to each other and they were married Catholic doctrine is couple confers Sacrament on each other.

But due to the fact that you would have men saying vows sleeping with women and the leaving them high and dry....

It’s possible Henry VIII also wanted control but considering his own Uncles were declared illegitimate put in a tower than murdered all due to secret marriages he may have felt rules were needed.

It was more that he wanted to control the nobility and the alliances that would be created by marriage. He himself secretly wed Anne Boleyn before their public marriage.

As for Catholic annulments every religion has its rules. And it applies who people who married or want to get married in the Catholic Church.

And I like the ones that do not control whether someone’s marriage has ended separate from civil marriage. As I made clear, the suffering created by this practice is not something I approve of.

 

[becca]

OK folks, stop making up crap about my faith tradition because it suits your anti-Meghan agenda (Wills and Kate have more dignity than Harry and Meghan. Yeah right? But that's my opinion. Here are some facts)

1. Harry and Meghan could very well have been legally married in the garden, despite what Vicar Whoever he is said someone in the ABC's office told him at some unspecified time.

(nota bene: We Episcopalians, and by extension Anglicans, call the Archbishop of Canterbury the ABC. With love. )

Why? Because the ABC is the head of the Anglican Communion. And in England, he can grant a special license to be married. Anywhere. Anytime. Could you or I get it? Nope. But the ABC isn't performing our wedding ceremony.

And every single story I've seen says the ABC refused to comment. When he comments, that's news. Not the Vicar who wants his name in the paper.

2. Related to this, although it was some screens back, there is no universe in which it is classy or accepted to snigger during an Episcopal/Anglican wedding ceremony. Particularly during a sermon by the highest ranking clergyperson of the Episcopal Church (the Anglican Communion in the US of A) our Presiding Bishop. If the members of the BRF could not keep it together for a fifteen minute sermon, well, that speaks volumes to their "classiness" as well).

Any other questions about Anglicanism or the Episcopal Church, just holler. Otherwise, if I want to discuss MAGA talking points (like how classy the BRF are except for of course that hussy Meghan and poor confused Harry) I'll stick to PI

No one is saying that the first marriage could not have happened they are saying if it was legal the second marriage broke the rules.

 

[skatfan]

i know a few people that have done it. The first one because she was italian but had to get married in order to live in the U.S. but she didn’t tell her parents because anything but a big italian wedding would have caused problems. So she had to do the big wedding at home in Canada.

2nd one was because the big wedding one on an island in the Caribbean would be not legal or something.

Whatever, to each their own. It’s not illegal.

The thing is that Harry and Meghan had to be married in the C of E for their legal AND religious marriage - so they had to follow their rules, which sound like they were skirted a bit.

odd piece: I once had a maid of honor come to me after the wedding to ask me if I would hold the license because the bride wasn’t sure she wanted to be married. I looked at her and said, “what did we just do then?!?” I agreed to hold it for a few days but the bride needed to call me. She didn’t so I filed it with the State.

 

[becca]

The thing is that Harry and Meghan had to be married in the C of E for their legal AND religious marriage - so they had to follow their rules, which sound like they were skirted a bit.

odd piece: I once had a maid of honor come to me after the wedding to ask me if I would hold the license because the bride wasn’t sure she wanted to be married. I looked at her and said, “what did we just do then?!?” I agreed to hold it for a few days but the bride needed to call me. She didn’t so I filed it with the State.

Charles and Camilla did not marry in C of E

 

[el henry]

No one is saying that the first marriage could not have happened they are saying if it was legal the second marriage broke the rules.

Well, I am confused, because what I read was that the put-upon Vicar was upset because "everyone" will want to get married in the garden, but "everyone" is not the BRF getting married by the ABC. And again, if the ABC wants to go through a ceremony because the entire British Royal Family stands to benefit from the pomp and circumstance (not just hussy Meaghan and poor put upon Harry /s) that is up to him. ?‍

And all the stories I read were again with anti-Meghan (Oh silly American girl just doesn't understand) or the MAGA racist (ETA to me, because it's either racism or complete cluelessness )talking points of the entitled Meghan (every single person who ever got married by the ABC under any circumstances is entitled, because that doesn't happen for mere mortals).

So those are the points I was addressing.

 

[Judy]

The thing is that Harry and Meghan had to be married in the C of E for their legal AND religious marriage - so they had to follow their rules, which sound like they were skirted a bit.

odd piece: I once had a maid of honor come to me after the wedding to ask me if I would hold the license because the bride wasn’t sure she wanted to be married. I looked at her and said, “what did we just do then?!?” I agreed to hold it for a few days but the bride needed to call me. She didn’t so I filed it with the State.

Omg I can’t imagine that lol.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

What a crock! And Harry and the Vicor didn’t mention it? So Harry perpetrated a fraud on his family and his country? To what end?

 

[skatfan]

Charles and Camilla did not marry in C of E

They could not be married religiously in the C of E because of Charles’s divorce. For Harry and Meghan not to when they could would not have been acceptable.

 

[el henry]

They could not be married religiously in the C of E because of Charles’s divorce. For Harry and Meghan not to when they could would not have been acceptable.

I am afraid this is no longer correct.

A divorced person may remarry in the C of E, with the priest's consent. Anglicanism does not require annulments, but it's usually a talk with the priest (spousal unit and I went through this prior to our wedding, although the American (Episcopal) rules have always been less rigid).

Charles and Camilla could have been married in a religious ceremony, but chose not to. I don't know why.

Harry and Meghan: Can you remarry in church after divorce?

The rules governing Church of England weddings changed in 2002.

www.bbc.com

 

[overedge]

IIRC Charles was persuaded, against his wishes, not to have his wedding to Camilla in the church because of the negative public reaction toward Camilla (as "replacing" Diana). This was also around the time of the court proceedings against Paul Burrell for allegedly stealing Diana's personal belongings - the proceedings that unexpectedly ended when the Queen suddenly "remembered" a conversation that exonerated Burrell. So the feeling within the royal household was that if Charles was seen, rightly or wrongly, as overriding the church's practices around remarriages of divorced people, that would make the anti-Camilla sentiment even worse. Which is why he and Camilla ended up having a civil ceremony and then a blessing by the Archbishop in the chapel at Windsor.

 

[skatfan]

I am afraid this is no longer correct.

A divorced person may remarry in the C of E, with the priest's consent. Anglicanism does not require annulments, but it's usually a talk with the priest (spousal unit and I went through this prior to our wedding, although the American (Episcopal) rules have always been less rigid).

Charles and Camilla could have been married in a religious ceremony, but chose not to. I don't know why.

Harry and Meghan: Can you remarry in church after divorce?

The rules governing Church of England weddings changed in 2002.

www.bbc.com

Ah, thanks for the correction.

 

[canbelto]

Omg, who the f__k cares if they had a private marriage vow ceremony?
They're married. In the C of E (for those who care about these things -- I don't.) They have one child with another on the way.
This is a legit marriage. Sorry to all those "Archie is a foundling" conspiracy theorists, but they're married.
Next @becca is going to be asking if someone inspected their bedsheets to find out the date of consummation.

 

[becca]

IIRC Charles was persuaded, against his wishes, not to have his wedding to Camilla in the church because of the negative public reaction toward Camilla (as "replacing" Diana). This was also around the time of the court proceedings against Paul Burrell for allegedly stealing Diana's personal belongings - the proceedings that unexpectedly ended when the Queen suddenly "remembered" a conversation that exonerated Burrell. So the feeling within the royal household was that if Charles was seen, rightly or wrongly, as overriding the church's practices around remarriages of divorced people, that would make the anti-Camilla sentiment even worse. Which is why he and Camilla ended up having a civil ceremony and then a blessing by the Archbishop in the chapel at Windsor.

I kind of don’t get this. I mean Diana had past away so by any sentiment Charles should have been free.

Of course Camilla’s ex still alive although he remarried.

Say what you will about those

 

[becca]

Omg, who the f__k cares if they had a private marriage vow ceremony?
They're married. In the C of E (for those who care about these things -- I don't.) They have one child with another on the way.
This is a legit marriage. Sorry to all those "Archie is a foundling" conspiracy theorists, but they're married.
Next @becca is going to be asking if someone inspected their bedsheets to find out the date of consummation.

Of course they are legally married. If not at the private ceremony three days later. Lol!

I never said Archie wasn’t theirs he is clearly Harry’s son lol adorable little red head.

 

[canbelto]

Of course they are legally married. If not at the private ceremony three days later. Lol!

I never said Archie wasn’t theirs he is clearly Harry’s son lol adorable little red head.

Many couples do this. They recite their vows before the public ceremony. It's kind of not a big deal ...
There are also couples who go to city hall and get married civilly before having their church wedding. Also not a big deal ...

 

[becca]

Many couples do this. They recite their vows before the public ceremony. It's kind of not a big deal ...
There are also couples who go to city hall and get married civilly before having their church wedding. Also not a big deal ...

But every religion has different rules about my understanding is of your C of E they would have a blessing and not a whole other wedding if you let’s say got married in Vegas. And I am not in C of E but that may be some of the anger over there? From what I am reading.


In Catholicism your civil marriage isn’t even recognized. It just depends.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I kind of don’t get this. I mean Diana had past away so by any sentiment Charles should have been free.

Of course Camilla’s ex still alive although he remarried.

Say what you will about those

Yes but he was a devorcee not a widower.

 

[AxelAnnie]

But every religion has different rules about my understanding is of your C of E they would have a blessing and not a whole other wedding if you let’s say got married in Vegas. And I am not in C of E but that may be some of the anger over there? From what I am reading.


In Catholicism your civil marriage isn’t even recognized. It just depends.

Jew too. That is because a Jewish marriage is a contract between two Jews. Absent that and a few other things ,there is no recognized marriage a few other things,

 

[becca]

Yes but he was a devorcee not a widower.

I wouldn’t call him a widower but his ex wife being dead should have freed him. At least in Catholicism they would say he could contract a valid marriage. Marriage is for life the vow is complete upon one parties death. The issue should have been Camilla’s ex being alive which for some it was.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I wouldn’t call him a widower but his ex wife being dead should have freed him. At least in Catholicism they would say he could contract a valid marriage. Marriage is for life the vow is complete upon one parties death. The issue should have been Camilla’s ex being alive which for some it was.

Google
Since you were divorced before the death of the spouse, they became at the time of the divorce, unrelated to you in any way, save as an ex spouse. You can by definition, only be a widow to someone who you were married to at the time of their demise.

 

[becca]

Google
Since you were divorced before the death of the spouse, they became at the time of the divorce, unrelated to you in any way, save as an ex spouse. You can by definition, only be a widow to someone who you were married to at the time of their demise.

No one is saying he is a widower. But the issue is amongst Conservatives Christians who don’t recognize civil divorce. However upon death that previous bond no longer applies.

A widower is allowed to remarry upon death of a spouse so is a divorced person upon death of ex spouse

 

[AxelAnnie]

No one is saying he is a widower. But the issue is amongst Conservatives Christians who don’t recognize civil divorce. However upon death that previous bond no longer applies.

A widower is allowed to remarry upon death of a spouse so is a divorced person upon death of ex spouse

Got it.thanks

 

[overedge]

I kind of don’t get this. I mean Diana had past away so by any sentiment Charles should have been free.

Of course Camilla’s ex still alive although he remarried.

Say what you will about those

There are skating fans who think Ekaterina Gordeeva never should have remarried after Sergei Grinkov died. There are Diana fans who think Charles never should have remarried either. It's not rational, but it's real.

Many people in the UK blamed Camilla for Charles and Diana breaking up, and didn't want Camilla to ever become queen. With people already thinking that the monarchy was out of touch and unfeeling after the way it reacted to Diana's death, and with Charles the heir to the throne, the royal household was extremely sensitive to public sentiment around Charles and Camilla’s wedding.

 

[Lemonade20]

There are skating fans who think Ekaterina Gordeeva never should have remarried after Sergei Grinkov died. There are Diana fans who think Charles never should have remarried either. It's not rational, but it's real.

Many people in the UK blamed Camilla for Charles and Diana breaking up, and didn't want Camilla to ever become queen. With people already thinking that the monarchy was out of touch and unfeeling after the way it reacted to Diana's death, and with Charles the heir to the throne, the royal household was extremely sensitive to public sentiment around Charles and Camilla’s wedding.

I'm glad they chose to do a very simple civil ceremony. It's sad that it didn't happen the first time around pre-Diana, and I still wonder what would have happened if C & D had never married. Funny how they didn't approve of Camilla and yet didn't support Diana either.

 

[MsZem]

I still wonder what would have happened if C & D had never married.

This thread wouldn't exist?

 

[AxelAnnie]

Well if anyone would know her motive it would be you. You could call it a private commitment ceremony or something for just them. The public ceremony was show business. Maybe they wanted something that would actually be meaningful even if not legal. Which I'm sure they knew as well as you.

Then they should have done that. No one forced them to have 45 million dollar extravaganza. Geesh ? especially since it was Meghan's second. Wedding.

White dress and all.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Charles and Camilla did not marry in C of E

True. They handled their wedding appropriately and with good taste.
Would that they handled their affair with as much dignity. Oops Affair +Dignity=oxymoron

 

[MsZem]

Then they should have done that. No one forced them to have 45 million dollar extravaganza. Geesh ? especially since it was Meghan's second. Wedding.

White dress and all.

Relevant movie quote: "Honey, we all deserve to wear white."

The big wedding was a given due to their role and status, and a significant chunk of the cost was security, not some sort of Bridezilla-ish spectacle. This is not something out of Crazy Rich Asians.

Since they had to have a very public wedding, I completely understand wanting something intimate just for themselves, even if it was not official (something they could have made clearer in the interview).

 

[ballettmaus]

Then they should have done that. No one forced them to have 45 million dollar extravaganza. Geesh ? especially since it was Meghan's second. Wedding.

White dress and all.

Can you imagine the drama if they hadn't had a public wedding?

 

[AxelAnnie]

Relevant movie quote: "Honey, we all deserve to wear white."

The big wedding was a given due to their role and status, and a significant chunk of the cost was security, not some sort of Bridezilla-ish spectacle. This is not something out of Crazy Rich Asians.

Since they had to have a very public wedding, I completely understand wanting something intimate just for themselves, even if it was not official (something they could have made clearer in the interview).

They could have declined as did one of the York ladies did.