Jump technique videos

[canbelto]

Do you guys follow the jump technique videos on YT? I've recently gotten into it and now I sort of wish I hadn't, because they broke down the lutz technique of Kaori and Jason Brown and it's one of those things where once you see it, you can't unsee it ...

Here's some video breakdowns:

- YouTube

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- YouTube

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The videos have made me appreciate skaters like Liza, Ilia, Nathan, and Aliona Kostornaia for not pre-rotating jumps ...

 

[On My Own]

I don't, because imo they are biased, and one thing doesn't damage someone's skating.

And they also only ever go after lutz, idk why.

 

[gkelly]

If you want to learn about jump technique, look for videos by coaches.

Fans trying to prove a point about their favorite skaters or about their favorite pet peeve are less reliable.

 

[canbelto]

One thing I started doing was playing videos of skaters but slowed down. You can see pre-rotation more easily that way.

 

[bladesofgorey]

sorry, just started to watch the first one out of curiosity and it couldn't have been made by anyone who actually understands figure skating technique or how jumps work. Aliev does not use a "full blade assist" on his lutz. In fact, the whole "full blade assist" thing on flips and lutzes is BS.

First, that isn't even what the video shows (have these people ever seen a real blade or how little a heel has to lift to get to the toepick?)

Secondly- If a skater puts their full blade down on a flip or lutz before then going back to the toepick for the moment of vault it becomes a loop. Loops are notoriously straight up and down jumps for most skaters- if this supposed weight shift into a loop worked better for getting power and a huge arc, don't you think most coaches would replicate this weight shift rather staying over the rotating axis during the loop's edge preparation? Do you know why they don't? Because putting the blade down at the moment a skater is shifting weight to vault up in the air when a skater isn't over the access leg doesn't work well (and will usually result in a nasty fall). It certainly doesn't generate the forces needed to create power for a big jump. Sure, a beginner learning a flip at a very slow speed who already has their loop might do this, but it's going to be a tiny jump with a lot of hesitation on the picking/axis leg as they wait to get the the axis leg under themselves before jumping.

Maaaaaybe every now and then a skater might do a jump where their technique makes it hard to determine whether they've done a salchow or toe loop, but those are two jumps with similar body weight placements throughout the preparation and jump follow-through.

 

[On My Own]

Loops are notoriously straight up and down jumps for most skaters- if this supposed weight shift into a loop worked better for getting power and a huge arc, don't you think most coaches would replicate this weight shift rather staying over the rotating axis during the loop's edge preparation?

The claim is the opposite - that because they shift weight in that way, they lose the power that makes the Lutz and Flip have a larger arc than a Loop. Which I think is fair because pre-rotated jumps do tend to be smaller, but that's something else not "full blade take off".

And another claim is that because it's easier because it has less rotation - that's where the contention is for me. I don't think it's "easier" to jump a Lutz or Flip that way. Sure, it has less rotation, but the jump is always muscled and is difficult on the body. Proper Lutz and Flip timings are harder to master, but the actual jumps are easier on the body after those timings are mastered. And because they provide more air time, it's easier to finish rotation in the air before settling down into the landing, so that's easier on you as well.

Daniel Grassl really blurs the line between these jumps, though.

 

[canbelto]

Isn't the claim that pre-rotation long-term causes back problems? If you do a slow-down of Kamila Valieva's jumps she does pre-rotate a lot.

 

[On My Own]

What causes back problems, IMO, is the timing on the vault and the way they obtain it. Eteri girls used to twist their upper bodies into take off, and many of them used go into the jump with low speed - so a big part of their power used to be from the upper body.

Shoma Uno, as an example, also had bad pre-rotated technique, but he used to go into his jumps with huge speed. As a result, if you notice, his body going into he jump was much better aligned and much less twisted, because he didn't need that additional force from the upper body and could convert the speed going in much better into vault. He still had bad landings because he was never able to complete rotations fully in the air, but the strain on the back was lower.

There's more to a jump than the pick and the on-ice rotation. These videos and their creators have unfortunately managed to whitewash that.

 

[canbelto]

Depends on the Eteri girl. Med, Anna and Kamila pre-rotated a lot. Sasha less so. Kostornaia had solid jump technique.