Josh Duggar ('19 Kids and Counting') Arrested by Feds

[Tesla]

So I am watching this right now, and I just have to ask how Jill's husband Derick made it through the parent's censors??? I am sure they still live somewhat like how they were raised, but he's not at all what I would expect a Duggar to allow one of their daughters to marry. Also, Josh was creepy, entitled, and gross from the very beginning.

I am currently watching, too, and it is horrifying.

 

[Amy L]

I watched the first two episodes before I went to bed and that was a mistake.

I've probably been IBLP adjacent my whole life because I was raised Baptist and I knew several religious homeschooling families, but even I couldn't have imagined things being THAT bad. I probably complain about my childhood a lot, but I'm feeling grateful for the parents I had right about now.

The Duggars always creeped me out. I saw the first few little documentaries on Discovery, when there were 13/14 kids, but never got into the show. I knew enough about the lifestyle that heathen me wouldn't like it. From childhood experience I grew to hate the faux church lady voice and guessed Michelle was probably a monster behind the scenes. There's often a correlation there, imo.

 

[Wyliefan]

There was a time when every woman on Christian talk radio had that baby voice. Used to drive me bats, even though I hardly ever listened to it.

 

[Cachoo]

i am currently watching "Shiny, Happy People" on Prime. The first episode was going over familiar history. I have started on the second episode and I want to run screaming from the room. I feel sorry for any child stuck with parents who buy into that ridiculous IBLP...or whatever it is called.

 

[MacMadame]

So I am watching this right now, and I just have to ask how Jill's husband Derick made it through the parent's censors??? I am sure they still live somewhat like how they were raised, but he's not at all what I would expect a Duggar to allow one of their daughters to marry. Also, Josh was creepy, entitled, and gross from the very beginning.

Maybe they weren't picky because they have so many daughters??

In the article on homeschooled Christians who are sending their kids to public school, you can see that moving away from your upbringing is a process that can take years. Does the documentary show what he used to think or just how he is now?

The other thing that article made me realize is that, if you are taught to obey your husband and your church and your husband doesn't agree with the church, it puts you in the middle and picking your husband means moving away from your church. I see that going on with both of the Duggar women who have moved away from their extreme upbringing regardless of whether or not they say that's exactly what happened.

 

[Wyliefan]

That Washington Post article on ex-homeschoolers (it was posted in the education thread) touched on that aspect. The wife was very much caught in the middle at first.

 

[Amy L]

Derick was going on a mission and Jim Bob was his prayer buddy or whatever he called it. They got along well, and Jim Bob chose him for Jill. I suspect he regrets it now.

AFAIK, all of the married older girls are still Evangelical, they're just pants wearing Evangelicals now. Jinger is married to a sketchy Calvinist and people still think she's the rebellious one.

 

[MsZem]

AFAIK, all of the married older girls are still Evangelical, they're just pants wearing Evangelicals now. Jinger is married to a sketchy Calvinist and people still think she's the rebellious one.

Jill seems to have made the most significant break with her upbringing, more so than Jinger. She certainly seems to have been fortunate in her marriage.

She and Derrick posted that they will have a book out soon.

 

[Vagabond]

There was a time when every woman on Christian talk radio had that baby voice. Used to drive me bats, even though I hardly ever listened to it.

An individual adult who has a "baby voice" may well have been abused in one way or another during early childhood.

When the "baby voice" is common to an entire demographic, in this case women on Christian talk radio, it could be a sign of either widespread historic child abuse or enormous social pressure to conform, which might itself be a form of abuse.

 

[Wyliefan]

I definitely think it was something the Gothardites encouraged, and it seeped into some of the more mainstream religious areas.

 

[Amy L]

I definitely think it was something the Gothardites encouraged, and it seeped into some of the more mainstream religious areas.

I've heard exMo (LDS) people call that voice "conference talk lady" so it's definitely a thing. I suppose it happens anywhere with a patriarchy that infantilizes womens' roles in their society.

 

[Badams]

This documentary is truly frightening.

 

[Prancer]

So I am watching this right now, and I just have to ask how Jill's husband Derick made it through the parent's censors???

In the article on homeschooled Christians who are sending their kids to public school, you can see that moving away from your upbringing is a process that can take years.

It takes years and it is painful and it goes in fits and starts, plus when you are raised in that kind of environment, you know exactly how to talk the talk and do until you don't--there is no halfway. So until you decide that you are going to cut ties completely (or at least risk that), you say all the right things. I am not at all surprised that Derick made it through.

I remember posting once on a Duggar thread that marriage could be a way of escaping that world and people thought it was . But once the kids get out on their own (and marriage is often the way they do it) and have the freedom to express their doubts (and just about everyone has doubts), you can have the doubts AND support AND family, which you won't have if you are still living with your parents.

From childhood experience I grew to hate the faux church lady voice and guessed Michelle was probably a monster behind the scenes.

I have found the fixation on "Jim Bob's rules" to be . It has always been obvious to me that Michelle is absolutely the queen bee and everything revolves around her. Maybe you have to have been part of that kind of world to see it.

 

[Amy L]

I remember posting once on a Duggar thread that marriage could be a way of escaping that world and people thought it was . But once the kids get out on their own (and marriage is often the way they do it) and have the freedom to express their doubts (and just about everyone has doubts), you can have the doubts AND support AND family, which you won't have if you are still living with your parents.

And I believed it too - - it takes a certain type of person to be a Quiverfull parent -- not everyone is made to/desires to run their home as a dictatorship. A more easy-going husband would give them the freedom to discover their authentic selves, which they would never be able to do at home. They're the lucky ones though. Just think of Anna, who went from strict home and ended up with Josh Duggar.

 

[Prancer]

A more easy-going husband would give them the freedom to discover their authentic selves, which they would never be able to do at home.

But it all still comes down to the man

I tried to read Jinger's book Becoming Free Indeed. She is definitely not a rebel. I couldn't finish it, but she isn't all that far removed from her parents. Freedom is relative. But she is still very much part of the family, so they haven't cut her off, unlike Jill. But I think that in Jill's case, it's not so much religious differences as other issues.

 

[Amy L]

But it all still comes down to the man

True. But I don't think of those girls would ever have the inkling to go out on their own. That's been beaten and brainwashed out of them. And it's not just the girls, at least one of those sons has been to conversion therapy and gone on to marry a woman and have kids, which has never made for a mentally healthy adulthood either.

I tried to read Jinger's book Becoming Free Indeed. She is definitely not a rebel. I couldn't finish it, but she isn't all that far removed from her parents. Freedom is relative. But she is still very much part of the family, so they haven't cut her off, unlike Jill. But I think that in Jill's case, it's not so much religious differences as other issues.

Jill and Derick are "free" but they are still homophobic fundies. Jinger went from one cult into another. Freedom is relative indeed. They aren't how I would want them to be, but they are better off than they were. Hopefully they'll continue to progress as humans. At the very least, I hope their kids grow up in a better environment.

 

[Badams]

But it all still comes down to the man

I tried to read Jinger's book Becoming Free Indeed. She is definitely not a rebel. I couldn't finish it, but she isn't all that far removed from her parents. Freedom is relative. But she is still very much part of the family, so they haven't cut her off, unlike Jill. But I think that in Jill's case, it's not so much religious differences as other issues.

For Jill and Derick, it seems to be about the money.

 

[Cachoo]

I watched the first two episodes before I went to bed and that was a mistake.

I've probably been IBLP adjacent my whole life because I was raised Baptist and I knew several religious homeschooling families, but even I couldn't have imagined things being THAT bad. I probably complain about my childhood a lot, but I'm feeling grateful for the parents I had right about now.

The Duggars always creeped me out. I saw the first few little documentaries on Discovery, when there were 13/14 kids, but never got into the show. I knew enough about the lifestyle that heathen me wouldn't like it. From childhood experience I grew to hate the faux church lady voice and guessed Michelle was probably a monster behind the scenes. There's often a correlation there, imo.

This. She writes about playing the "blanket game" with her babies---just putting a toy out of reach and then hitting them when they leave the blanket to retrieve it. God only knows what those kids went through to become obedient.

 

[Coco]

If memory serves, I think Jill had a difficult birth with her first child, possibly a C-section, if I'm remembering correctly. And the circumstances around that experience were significant in getting her to start examining her parents' beliefs and attitudes.

 

[quartz]

This. She writes about playing the "blanket game" with her babies---just putting a toy out of reach and then hitting them when they leave the blanket to retrieve it. God only knows what those kids went through to become obedient.

It’s not obedience, it’s fear.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Watch the whole docuseries this past weekend. My God, where do I begin……

I’m really happy for Jill that she ended up married to a husband like Derick. He seems to be a very good man.

Those contracts that Jill (and therefore the rest of the kids) signed were illegal, right? TLC and/or Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar are very lucky that they haven’t been sued.

BTW, I bet all the kids from Sister Wives haven’t received compensation for their work, either. I bet that Kody Brown is going nuts since some of the wives have left him and they have taken the pay with them.

 

[ilovepaydays]

The Eight Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled: Josh Duggar appeal has been denied.

Here’s the ruling if you want to read it.

I’m not a legal expert by any means, but I think if they want to keep this going, they have to appeal it to the U.S. Supreme Court, correct? But after I read through this decision, I don’t think that they will hear it.

Duggar’s lawyers argued that his Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights were violated. He claims he couldn’t contact counsel when the car lot was searched because his cell phone was confiscated.

Duggar also claimed that he wanted to put a former employee (who was a convicted sex offender) on the stand to possibly connect him to the time of the downloads. But the former employee’s prior convictions was off-limits in this case.

But I could be wrong about what could happen next……..