alchemy void
Post-its for the win.
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I remember her mentioning in an interview, perhaps 10 years ago, she regretted not attempting the 3A at 96 Worlds, as after that event she wasn't able to come close to land it in practice anymore.
How would 1996 and 2000 Olympics have gone
- Thread starter vanillashake
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I remember her mentioning in an interview, perhaps 10 years ago, she regretted not attempting the 3A at 96 Worlds, as after that event she wasn't able to come close to land it in practice anymore.
Don't forget about Kulik. I thought he was absolutely terrific at Worlds, and lost the gold because he did 2 solo 3flips.
vanillashake
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Atleast they have a better shot than if they were making their debut this season rather than last. They only will need to last 2 more years if they win this year.
I don't see what fresh young skater could possibly win in a 2000 Olympics. It wouldn't be Hughes, she was never ready at that point. That year probably would have bucked the trend regardless and some kind of veteran skater (Slutskaya, Kwan, Butyrskaya, Lipinski) wins regardless.
Foolhardy Ham Lint
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Technically, yes. Having attended the event in person, the height and distance he got on his jumps was insane.
But that Aladdin program was just not worthy of his talent.
Yes, but the flow he showed was impressive. It's not like Eldredge or Stojko were skating to a masterpiece.
Foolhardy Ham Lint
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Well, I guess at this point we can respectfully agree to disagree.
Sasha Cohen
She would still be too young.
olympic
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IDK. In the age of 6.0, there was a tendency to consider rep a lot more and upstarts were held down. See my analysis above. I think it would've been Lu but looking at the probable field, I think MK would've been a solid bet for Silver.
bardtoob
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I think Kwan could have gotten around Lulu the same way she did at the real 1996 Worlds:
1) Kwan landing 7 triples at 1995 Worlds but no medal while Lulu won.
2) Kwan having a phenomenal Championship Series in the fall of 1995 while Lulu struggled as her coach went after her money, which included accusing Lulu before the Chinese government.
3) Kwan not giving away anything when facing Lulu at the hypothetical 1996 Olympics.
supersloane
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While I'd have LOVED to see Kulik in 2000, there was no way he was going to continue in the sport after Nagano. He was straight up DONE.
By the time the theoretical '00 Olympic games would have happened, Yagudin would already be a back to back World champion. I don't think there is much of an argument about his supremacy at that point.
By the time the theoretical '00 Olympic games would have happened, Yagudin would already be a back to back World champion. I don't think there is much of an argument about his supremacy at that point.
Kulik wasn't quite consistent during his (short) competitive career but delivered when it counted the most. I actually really liked his 1997 programs but the free was truly too complex that I don't think he skated it clean / well even once that season. Given he was very close to winning gold at 1996 Worlds, it is fair to say he is a clear contender for the Olympics that year.
The other Russian man that could have contended in 1996 was Urmanov of course. Even after his win in 1994, he continued on and actually skated a very consistent and strong 1996 season up to Worlds, with my favorite free program of his. He also won the first CSF right around when the Olympics would have been held.
For 1996, I think between Kulik, Urmanov, Eldredge, Stojko and Galindo (assuming no comeback for Boitano, Petrenko and with Browning retiring), Eldredge and Stojko will likely round up the podium with either Kulik or Urmanov. I don't think both Russian man would make it to the podium.
For 2000, Plushenko crashed and burned at Worlds, so he could have similarly bombed if the Olympics was that year. Yagudin is definitely the better bet for gold. Weiss and Stojko were both inconsistent at that stage, and I don't think Kulik or Urmanov would have stayed / kept up his consistency - in fact one of them would have been bumped off the world team since 1998. Abt couldn't have made it out of Russia. My bet for bronze would be Weiss because he skated very well at Nationals and with one of my favorite male Carmens.
bardtoob
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I will probably get stoned for this, but I prefer Kulik's skating to Yag's.
screech
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While I loved Yags, I can completely see this. There was such an easy power to Kulik's skating, and when 'on', his jumps were so big and solid.
And it takes a special man to work a giraffe costume at the Olympics.
Also, I just rewatched the brilliant movie Catch Me If You Can, and holy crap did Ilia ever look like Leonardo DiCaprio.
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I won't stone you.
The flow that Kulik displays is quite unmatched. Sometimes Yag's jumps could look quite laboured.I am doing only 2000 right now. Will do 1996 later.
Pairs-
G - Berezhnaya Sikharulidze (assuming Elena had not taken the cold medicine before Euros)
S- KAZAKOVA Dmitriev
B- Woetzel Steyer (S&P were relatively new)
Men-
G- Kulik
S- Yagudin
B- Plushenko
A sweep is rare but it could have happened, given the quality of the skaters.
Ladies-
G- Slutskaya (two 3-3 jump combos would have beaten the artistry just like it did in 1998)
S-Kwan
B- Tara (if no hip problems) or Maria Butyrskaya
Ice dance -
G-Grishchuk Platov
S- K&O if healthy, otherwise Anissina Peizerat
B- A&P or FP&M (L&A no chance, no sweep)
Pairs-
G - Berezhnaya Sikharulidze (assuming Elena had not taken the cold medicine before Euros)
S- KAZAKOVA Dmitriev
B- Woetzel Steyer (S&P were relatively new)
Men-
G- Kulik
S- Yagudin
B- Plushenko
A sweep is rare but it could have happened, given the quality of the skaters.
Ladies-
G- Slutskaya (two 3-3 jump combos would have beaten the artistry just like it did in 1998)
S-Kwan
B- Tara (if no hip problems) or Maria Butyrskaya
Ice dance -
G-Grishchuk Platov
S- K&O if healthy, otherwise Anissina Peizerat
B- A&P or FP&M (L&A no chance, no sweep)
Kulik was a better skater, and his jump quality was divine. Yagudin was more emotional in his skating (past 1998) and may be that’s why he was so popular. By 2000 I assume Kulik would have been a more developed skater than he was in 1998, so it is possible that he would have been better overall than Yagudin.
supersloane
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The problem with this is that Kulik's massive undoing was his wild inconsistency, general issue with follow through and insane nerves when competing. Yagudin was an emotional skater but like all of Mishin's students, he was a very tough competitor. While there is a component to this of "had Kulik not retired then Yagudin wouldn't have gone to Tarasova", comparing what we know, I don't think that Kulik would have stuck around at all to 2000 in any scenario. He was done and had no intention of continuing to compete after Nagano.
If I understand the thread correctly, it assumes that there would not have been 94 and 98 Olympics, so there is no way Kulik would have retired at age 20, without even going to an Olympic. Yagudin would have gone to Tarasova no matter what. The dynamics between him, Plushenko, and Mishin was not working in his favor, and he wanted to develop artistically. He had already mastered the technique. Kulik had a natural flair so he would have developed a lot by 2000 (with perhaps a world title under his belt by then).
supersloane
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Hmm... if there was no Nagano, I don't know if Kulik would have stuck around.
Possibly... I do think that had Kulik's trajectory had been the same, he would have gone to the 96. I don't think he'd have won but I do think he'd have medaled.
Without Nagano, maybe he would have lasted until 2000. What stands in the way of me thinking otherwise is that his inconsistency was legend and his nerves were ROUGH. Only years later did we learn just how anxious Kulik was and how much he disliked competing. Whereas Yagudin LOVED competing and thrived in it. I do agree that the Mishin dynamic was inevitable and he would have likely still gone to Tarasova. While I adore Kulik (more than is reasonable... honestly), pinning my hopes on him in 2000 is a stretch.
Possibly... I do think that had Kulik's trajectory had been the same, he would have gone to the 96. I don't think he'd have won but I do think he'd have medaled.
Without Nagano, maybe he would have lasted until 2000. What stands in the way of me thinking otherwise is that his inconsistency was legend and his nerves were ROUGH. Only years later did we learn just how anxious Kulik was and how much he disliked competing. Whereas Yagudin LOVED competing and thrived in it. I do agree that the Mishin dynamic was inevitable and he would have likely still gone to Tarasova. While I adore Kulik (more than is reasonable... honestly), pinning my hopes on him in 2000 is a stretch.
