Harding: 1985 US Olympic Festival SP Vs. Ito: 1985 NHK SP, who wins?

[bardtoob]

Harding: 1985 US Olympic Festival SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXiHaW4c8Is

Vs.

Ito: 1985 NHK SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyGLCE4uP3g

Who wins?

For fun, your selection is public. Please also discuss!

 

[bardtoob]

Wow!

Tonya has the harder jump combination, cleaner spins, and cleaner skating skills.

Midori has the harder 2A entrance, harder "Ito" arms during her 2Lz, and harder spins.

This is a tough one! . . . Skating skills were under Artistry or Presentation back then, right? What were the tie breaker rules? It could come down to opening armography

Try opening two browser windows and watching them side by side! Tonya's program starts at 0:03 and Midori's program starts at 0:33.

 

[bardtoob]

This would be close under the IJS.

Clearly, we cannot compare the 6.0 judging scores between the competitions.

Look at how Tonya was getting about 5.4 while Ito was getting about 5.6 for comparable content.

Tonya was a nobody at the US Olympic Festival.

NHK was Caesar's Palace and Midori was Wayne Newton.

 

[WillyElliot]

I'd have to go with Ito here. As bardtoob wrote, Ito has the Rippon lutz, the crazy entrance into the 2a, and I think her combo was more difficult. Even in presentation I thought Ito had more "zip".

Tonya looked like a star in the making too. Her back was nice and straight back then, too bad that didn't last. But still, it's fun to know that 5/6 years later they were competing for World and Olympic gold with 3axels.

 

[David21]

Weren't there supposed to be least *some* steps preceding the solo double jump even in 1985? Harding had some easy steps, Ito had absolutely ZERO of them before her double lutz.

Tonya has the harder jump combination, cleaner spins, and cleaner skating skills.

Is a 3flip-2loop really harder than 2loop-3loop? I'd say that is at least debatable.

 

[savchenkoboss]

I dont think there were any rules about steps preceding the double jump in the 85-88 quad as I saw many skaters who had none.

I am fairly sure a 2 loop-3 loop is considered harder than a 3 flip-2 loop. A 3 lutz-2 loop maybe would be considered harder.

 

[berthesghost]

This is one of those things I never got about cop (please correct me if I'm wrong) but under 6.0 it was generally accepted that a 2t/3t was harder than a 3t/2t but under njs they are =. Does the extra pt come from pcs maybe? Anyways, since a flip was always consider a little harder than a loop, but a 2/3 harder than a 3/2 it was at least a wash.

I went with Tonya on this one. It seems to have better flow and be more cohesive. Or maybe I was just pleased she took my advice and ditched the pony for orser's sassy bob. but the judges certainly gave midori higher marks.

 

[bardtoob]

I am fairly sure a 2 loop-3 loop is considered harder than a 3 flip-2 loop.

I disagree because of the time period. 3F was more rare than a 3Lp, required a change of foot between take off and landing, AND to do it in combination with 2Lp required the 3F to be landed with the free leg forward.

Conversely, a 3Lp was more common and had the same mechanics as a 2Lp.

A 3 lutz-2 loop maybe would be considered harder.

That was Tonya's combination in the 1987 NHK SP.

 

[screech]

I chose Ito.

Tonya's spins were stronger, but their jumps were comparable. Midori's actual skating was better, compared to Tonya's short, choppy crossovers. Midori had more of a 'program' too.

 

[bardtoob]

Tonya's spins were stronger, but their jumps were comparable. Midori's actual skating was better, compared to Tonya's short,

I disagree. Tonya is much smoother here.

Watch Tonya's crossovers at 0:57 into her video and compare it to Ito's crossovers at 1:27 into her video. Harding is much smoother.

 

[bardtoob]

Still tough ... I don't know how judges do it so quick!

 

[savchenkoboss]

I am pretty sure in Calgary for instance people were more in awe of Ito's double loop-triple loop than say Trenary's triple flip-double loop. Ito's technical marks were also way higher, she had the 2nd best technical marks to Thomas (who also did a combination starting with a double loop and having the triple second) and Trenary's were only about 6th or 7th best. Then again Trenary did not do the combination that well and it had a shaky landing which might also be part of the low technical marks.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

After watching Tonya I thought, "Wow, Im voting for Tonya."

Then I watched Midori and I said "Wow, Im voting for Midori." LOL

I guess my vote goes to Midori.

Tonya is a great spinner, yes. But I think between these videos Midori hit better positions.

And isn't Midori's combo harder because she back ended the required loop as a triple, where Tonya's is a double?

More interesting program and choreography: Midori.

Midori.

 

[Seerek]

"Funny Girl" Overture for Tonya Harding...interesting choice, the end cut exactly like Anett Pötzsch's long program.