Did a wrong choice of program lead to undesirable result?

[VGThuy]

I think Marina actually worked really hard and put a lot of thought behind Seasons. It seemed more original and required more work to come up with an original concept and story than giving them Scheherazade or some other premade story to replicate. The problem was that the actual construction of the program and the editing just didn’t come together and showed Marina’s limitation. I liked the concept behind it and I enjoyed the slower piano parts. It just…wasn’t good as it should have been. I also think V/M weren’t mentally at their best either. Compare to them in 2018 and you see a difference. Their OD in 2014, otoh, was underrated and I think they should have won there at the GPF and Olympics, no question.

 

[allezfred]

In that sense, Moulin Rouge was perfect for them.

They still lost the free dance in PyeongChang though.....

I think Marina actually worked really hard and put a lot of thought behind Seasons.

Which says it all about Zoueva's choreography really.

 

[VGThuy]

Which says it all about Zoueva's choreography really.

Sure does. Her dance vocabulary is...limited to say the least.

 

[Karen-W]

They still lost the free dance in PyeongChang though.....

Which says it all about Zoueva's choreography really.

But at what point is it on the skaters themselves to say "this program isn't working for us"? It isn't as though V/M were unseasoned competitors in 2014. They already had one Olympic gold medal to their name.

 

[overedge]

There's no such thing as a "wrong" choice of program. Skaters choose programs they think the judges will like and that they can perform well (or at least they think they can perform well), and that fit the ISU rules. Judges not giving high marks to a program doesn't mean it was the "wrong" program. E.g. Toller Cranston never won Worlds or Olympics, and thought the judges didn't mark his programs fairly, but his programs were very influential in the evolution of men's skating.

 

[allezfred]

But at what point is it on the skaters themselves to say "this program isn't working for us"? It isn't as though V/M were unseasoned competitors in 2014. They already had one Olympic gold medal to their name.

They trusted Zoueva's taste. As Julia Roberts said in "Pretty Woman", "BIG MISTAKE. HUGE."

 

[escaflowne9282]

Thanks to this thread for reminding me how much I can't stand Marina Zoueva's choreography. I found so many of her programs for Gordeeva and Grinkov to be unwatchable with choreography that was nonexistent . Her choreography for V&M in 2014 was so mediocre that it actually came across as sabotage.
It was as if she said, "V&M already have the gold; this one is for my future daughter-in-law" when she came up with Seasons as a FD.

 

[screech]

In a more minor way, I think a different LP could have helped Medvedeva. I found something almost lacking in that program. I know she won the LP tiebreaker, but IMO it wasn't her best vehicle, especially compared to how dynamic Zagitova's program was. Even without backloading like Alina did, I think a different program could have eeked out the win for Evgenia. (though I still think Kaetlyn Osmond had by far the best programs of the 3 medallists)

 

[canbelto]

Thanks to this thread for reminding me how much I can't stand Marina Zoueva's choreography. I found so many of her programs for Gordeeva and Grinkov to be unwatchable with choreography that was nonexistent . Her choreography for V&M in 2014 was so mediocre that it actually came across as sabotage.
It was as if she said, "V&M already have the gold; this one is for my future daughter-in-law" when she came up with Seasons as a FD.

I think the beauty of G&G's skating masked how empty Marina's programs were.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

I think Marina actually worked really hard and put a lot of thought behind Seasons. It seemed more original and required more work to come up with an original concept and story than giving them Scheherazade or some other premade story to replicate.

Unpopular opinion: I didn’t think Scheherazade was all that great either. Certainly not among my all-time favorite DW programs.

I think 2013-14 was just a bad year for Zueva on many levels.

 

[escaflowne9282]

In a more minor way, I think a different LP could have helped Medvedeva. I found something almost lacking in that program. I know she won the LP tiebreaker, but IMO it wasn't her best vehicle, especially compared to how dynamic Zagitova's program was. Even without backloading like Alina did, I think a different program could have eeked out the win for Evgenia. (though I still think Kaetlyn Osmond had by far the best programs of the 3 medallists)

It's funny how opinions and impressions can be so different.
I never could get into Medvedeva as a skater. I found there to always be too much miming without a genuine ice presence. I remember hearing from someone who saw her at Worlds in 2016 that she wasn't so impressive live and skated rather small.
That being said, I thought her Anna Karenina was her strongest and most musical program and really stole Alina's thunder despite not being enough to win the gold.
I thought Zagitova had a very generic program, she just skated around smiling and really had to keep her nerves together for the 3lutz/3loop combination. I didn't really find it to be such a super dynamic performance.

Zagitova, however, was a much stronger technician and looked to skate with more speed and power and she proved to have better stamina and nerves of steel. I don't see how Medvedeva could have won with another program. I actually feel like without Anna Karenina , Medvedeva wouldn't have even won the LP as it was .

I do agree about Osmond though.

 

[On My Own]

Unpopular opinion: I didn’t think Scheherazade was all that great either. Certainly not among my all-time favorite DW programs.

I have a genuine dislike for that FD...

[V/M's] OD in 2014, otoh, was underrated and I think they should have won there at the GPF and Olympics, no question.

Yes. I did have to look up who did the SD because everyone here is saying Zueva was off that season, and apparently they brought in Jean-Marc Genereux (a ballroom choreographer). Well, it showed. It was great.

[V/M] still lost the free dance in PyeongChang though.....

I thought they deserved to. I found the Moulin Rouge program to be much inferior to P/C's Moonlight Sonata.

 

[jenny12]

In a more minor way, I think a different LP could have helped Medvedeva. I found something almost lacking in that program. I know she won the LP tiebreaker, but IMO it wasn't her best vehicle, especially compared to how dynamic Zagitova's program was. Even without backloading like Alina did, I think a different program could have eeked out the win for Evgenia. (though I still think Kaetlyn Osmond had by far the best programs of the 3 medallists)

Agreed about Osmond and I honestly think Osmond was the only real skater of the top 3. Both Zagitova and Medvedeva (and I actually think Medvedeva was worse in this) had very little flow. Zagitova’s program did a better job taking advantage of the system but both felt very juniorish. Medvedeva seemed like so much effort was going into her crossovers.