Craig Simpson & Jamie Sale

[once_upon]

Most Canadians don't even remember the SLC scandal, excepting skating fans.

Quite honestly, 2002 was 30 years ago. Unless you were a skating fanatic and 40 years old, you probably do know anything about it.

Except for the continuous "new scoring system" crap, I'd say it's forgotten by most skating fans.

 

[once_upon]

I cannot speak actually to Canada, but the President of the United States tried to enforce a national mandate.

Huh? No that never happened

 

[Excidra]

While I don’t agree with everything she says, I’m proud Sale has used her platform to promote freedom, talk about the harmful effects of lockdown, and highlight the heavy costs we are paying and will continue to pay into the future. I’m sorry that her family and former friends have felt the need to ostracize her.

Promote freedom for who? Those who peddle lies and spread conspiracy theories like the great replacement theory. She is entitled to her opinion but let's not pretend she is using her platform for a just cause.

 

[jackson]

Quite honestly, 2002 was 30 years ago. Unless you were a skating fanatic and 40 years old, you probably do know anything about it.

Except for the continuous "new scoring system" crap, I'd say it's forgotten by most skating fans.

20 years ago...

 

[fsfann]

Oh, I’m sorry. I missed where people were mandated to take a vaccine.

*because that didn’t happen.

Um. There were mandates. In order to travel, you needed the vaccine. In order to work in hospital/care homes, you had to have the vaccine. Here in NS, to work for NS Power you had to have the vaccine. In order to play school sports, you had to have the vaccine. So yes there were mandates for people to take the vaccine.

 

[greenapple]

Jamie's eldest son is not quite thirteen. I don't think the breakdown of their relationship would be due to political differences, most kids either don't care or believe whatever their parents believe. She has accused her family of refusing to believe in the truth of QAnon, that's her putting the wedge there, not them.

Sale's son turns 15 in September. Perhaps you missed her video where she stated he thinks she is a lunatic and refuses to speak to her, which is why he chose to live with his father. Apparently he does care.

 

[Amy L]

Sale's son turns 15 in September. Perhaps you missed her video where she stated he thinks she is a lunatic, which is why he chose to live with his father. Apparently he does care.

I got his birth year wrong. I thought I remembered it and didn't look it up. Whoops. Sorry Jesse. My point remains the same, however. Kids usually either don't care or believe what their parents believe, therefore it has to be an extraordinary situation for the parent/child dynamic to dissolve in such a way.

I have not been able to get through an entire Jamie Sale interview in twenty years, so unless there's a transcript readily available I probably missed it.

 

[VGThuy]

Jamie is probably obsessed with QANON and all her other right wing rhetoric and doesn’t talk about anything else. She’s probably the aggressor with anyone who disagrees with her, who isn’t totally gung ho the way she is, and/or anyone who wants to talk about something else or asks politely that since they disagree it’ll be better to not talk about such things with them.

During the Trump presidency, I had a good friend who became obsessed with MAGA/Proud Boys-like talking points and repeated every sound byte, tweet, or whatever he saw from right wing social media and who, when I begged him for the sake of our friendship that we not talk about such things, refused to talk about anything else and then became aggressive with me and started to use me and others he labeled as “liberal” (he wasn’t very nuanced about his labeling) as punching bags and proxies of the targets he painted as “enemies of society” to lay all his ranting and bitterness on. I finally had to expressly cut him off as the 2020 election drew close and told him why I did so. I wasn’t the only one, and believe me, not everyone who did that was a “die hard” leftist like me.

The way Jamie carries herself online and the way it seems everyone (of different personalities, ages, backgrounds) once close in her life has now distanced themselves away from her and how, in order to satisfy her need for socialization that all humans have to some degree, she now can only rely on “connecting” with right wing social media personalities via fleeting tweets and “likes”, who probably only give some her attention because of her public status as a gold medalist. This all feels very familiar.

Sometimes, having to “ostracize” people is the only way you can keep your mental health. You have to take care of yourself even if it means cutting people you love because they only add constant toxicity, negativity, and stress in your life. There’s really nothing you can do because people like Jamie are entirely convinced they’re “freedom fighters” and everyone else, and I mean everyone else - no hyperbole, who they once cherished in their lives and they once respected, are now absolutely wrong about everything in life, aren’t as aware as they are, and are thus worth losing because the new world order or the “enemy” agenda need to be stopped and they’re the ones who will do it.

 

[Vagabond]

Entire post

So, so true.

 

[canbelto]

Honestly this is sad. I don’t get joy out of someone falling off the deep end like this.

 

[Judy]

Honestly this is sad. I don’t get joy out of someone falling off the deep end like this.

Neither do I. I’m sure it’s been extremely difficult for her family/friends. It’s like talking to someone no longer connected to reality. I don’t read their twitter feeds.

 

[On My Own]

I'm very sorry, I realized this sentence was completely wrong, and I only now realized why people were confused. "It is my understanding that Canadian people have been questioning her gold medal and saying she didn't deserve it at SLC, and have been saying it more and more as her views have come to surface."

What @Habs said is what I should have said (that people want her OGM taken away because she's a disgrace). Instead I wrote nonsense. I apologize.

 

[Deleted member 221]

What @Habs said is what I should have said (that people want her OGM taken away because she's a disgrace). Instead I wrote nonsense. I apologize.

What you wrote is even more nonsense. Sale won an Olympic gold medal 20 years ago. I don’t think it was deserved, but my opinion aside, she won it. Absolutely nothing, other than proven cheating in the timeframe of that competition, should ever result in that gold medal being taken away. The notion that Olympic gold medalists (among others) should have to live by some liberal / cancel culture morality code for the rest of their lives, or risk having their past achievements erased, is a big part of the reason why Sale and others are fighting so hard.

Even if you think Sale is a crazy quack, why is it so hard to accept that people are multi-dimensional and each of us has good and bad qualities? Sale was an excellent pairs skater (though not my cup of tea). Her political views should have no bearing on her OGM. People who want to take away her gold medal for espousing political views are crazier and far more dangerous than she is.

 

[On My Own]

What you wrote is even more nonsense.

What I wrote is what I saw people were saying. I don't really care if you think it's nonsense, it's not my opinion. My opinion on S/P's win is that pairs skating outside of Chinese pairs is irrelevant, bordering on unwatchable, and therefore I have willfully forgotten what S/P did at those Olympics.

IDGAF if Sale keeps her medal or not. She's deluded and a stupid person. Her worth is less than zero, and no olympic medal can change it, whether gold or platinum. She can carve the word "truth" on it and stuff it into her mouth for all I care.

By the way, I see you've avoided my question on what would you be saying if Sale were calling to murder Jews. Let me pose a different question. I've seen you say that you don't like "the peaceful religion" of Islam, right? Would you put your money where your mouth is and befriend a radical Islamist from Iran who wants gay men dead? Or is it no longer an opinion you'd be willing to tolerate even if it'd send such a person deeper into the rabbit hole?

 

[antmanb]

If my family told me I had to change my core beliefs to continue seeing them, I’d value being true to my core beliefs above all else.

Do you even have any inkling about the words you use?

My parents had a core belief that being gay was about the worst thing you could be. That core belief that they refused to change is what led to them cutting me out of their life and refusing to have a relationship with me.

Is that really what you stand for?

 

[Deleted member 221]

Her worth is less than zero

No one’s worth is less than zero.

By the way, I see you've avoided my question on what would you be saying if Sale were calling to murder Jews.

It’s not acceptable for any person to call for the murder of another person.

Would you put your money where your mouth is and befriend a radical Islamist from Iran who wants gay men dead?

I’ve had militantly religious employees of various types and as long as they get their work done and don’t bring their religion to the office, it’s fine with me. Again, calling for murder (homicide) is beyond the pale.

My parents had a core belief that being gay was about the worst thing you could be. That core belief that they refused to change is what led to them cutting me out of their life and refusing to have a relationship with me.

I’m genuinely sorry about that. Many disagree with me, but I do think it’s possible to have deep, fundamental disagreements with people and still maintain civil relationships. I maintain some family relationships despite the person believing gays will rot in hell, etc. If said people required me to change my beliefs to continue the relationship, I would not. I similarly don’t subject them to a purity test of asking them if they still believe gays will rot in hell before visiting. I don’t excuse or condone their beliefs, but I can put them in a metaphorical box. People are not one-dimensional, and some of the anti-gay relatives are great people in other respects. We’ve found a mutual truce that works for us.

I’m sorry for your parents’ treatment of you. No one deserves that, and I can only hope that they have come or will come to regret their actions deeply.

 

[LoisAGOEs]

No one’s worth is less than zero.



It’s not acceptable for any person to call for the murder of another person.



I’ve had militantly religious employees of various types and as long as they get their work done and don’t bring their religion to the office, it’s fine with me. Again, calling for murder (homicide) is beyond the pale.



I’m genuinely sorry about that. Many disagree with me, but I do think it’s possible to have deep, fundamental disagreements with people and still maintain civil relationships. I maintain some family relationships despite the person believing gays will rot in hell, etc. If said people required me to change my beliefs to continue the relationship, I would not. I similarly don’t subject them to a purity test of asking them if they still believe gays will rot in hell before visiting. I don’t excuse or condone their beliefs, but I can put them in a metaphorical box. People are not one-dimensional, and some of the anti-gay relatives are great people in other respects. We’ve found a mutual truce that works for us.

I’m sorry for your parents’ treatment of you. No one deserves that, and I can only hope that they have come or will come to regret their actions deeply.

You are in a privileged position to be able to put things in a “metaphorical box”.

 

[VGThuy]

I agree with Louis in saying that if I had a core belief I truly believed in then I would stick with them despite pressure from others. That said, if my position was causing me to have extreme breaks with nearly everyone in my family, has broken down my marriage (who I believe I carefully chose as my life partner after much consideration and thought), is ruining my friendships with people who I became friends with because of shared and mutual respect of each other’s values, thoughtfulness, conscientiousness, morality/ethics, and who come from a diverse set of backgrounds and are pretty heterogeneous in many ways, my expression of my views start becoming the only thing I talk and rant about and is making me sick, a great majority of people’s main response to such views I’m expressing are disgust and disbelief, and, probably most importantly, is having my own children want to distance themselves away from me…and when I say most people or nearly everyone, I’m not exaggerating, I really mean nearly ALL of them to the point where I am socially isolated and can only find like-minded people on the toxic, bitter and “edgy” part of the Internet and I have to rely on the idea that I’m such an individual and “free thinker” and it’s the masses who are all wrong as a defense mechanism, including experts who have much more understanding and education and practical experience on the issues I’m talking about….

Well, you best believe I would do some real deep reflection…and probably seek professional help to find out where my real anger, where my need to attack people, and where this need to feel like such a special person above everyone else is truly stemming from.

And as a mother, if my behavior was harming my child, who I would trust to have raised with good enough values and awareness to determine for himself what a healthy attitude looks like and he wants nothing to do with me, that would motivate me extra hard to truly see what I’m doing that is making me react that way. Believe me, children don’t choose break from their parents unless there are real issues going on.

 

[Habs]

Um. There were mandates. In order to travel, you needed the vaccine. In order to work in hospital/care homes, you had to have the vaccine. Here in NS, to work for NS Power you had to have the vaccine. In order to play school sports, you had to have the vaccine. So yes there were mandates for people to take the vaccine.

Okay, you're right. That's fair - there were mandates. My point was that no one was forced to have the vaccine.

 

[canbelto]

What I wrote is what I saw people were saying. I don't really care if you think it's nonsense, it's not my opinion. My opinion on S/P's win is that pairs skating outside of Chinese pairs is irrelevant, bordering on unwatchable, and therefore I have willfully forgotten what S/P did at those Olympics.

IDGAF if Sale keeps her medal or not. She's deluded and a stupid person. Her worth is less than zero, and no olympic medal can change it, whether gold or platinum. She can carve the word "truth" on it and stuff it into her mouth for all I care.

By the way, I see you've avoided my question on what would you be saying if Sale were calling to murder Jews. Let me pose a different question. I've seen you say that you don't like "the peaceful religion" of Islam, right? Would you put your money where your mouth is and befriend a radical Islamist from Iran who wants gay men dead? Or is it no longer an opinion you'd be willing to tolerate even if it'd send such a person deeper into the rabbit hole?

I don't agree. I think she's had a mental breakdown, and that is never funny. Her behavior is not normal. AND her pairs skating has nothing to do with her current mental state. I really hate when fans confuse the two. "I hate her skating so she must be a shitty person."

 

[On My Own]

I don't agree. I think she's had a mental breakdown, and that is never funny. Her behavior is not normal. AND her pairs skating has nothing to do with her current mental state. I really hate when fans confuse the two. "I hate her skating so she must be a shitty person."

I don't see where you think the fans (me?) are confusing her skating and her personality? Maybe I wrote it incorrectly again.

People are saying she's a disgrace and should be returning her olympic gold. NOT that her skating sucks and therefore she must be a bad person.

I don't think she should return her medal.

I think she's a bad person and it doesn't matter whether she has a medal or not, because it doesn't make her a better person either way.

I don't agree she's had a mental breakdown, but there is no way for me to know.

I agree her behaviour is not normal.

I hope this is clear since I made a mistake in writing it before.

 

[overedge]

I think people are telling her to turn in her gold medal because she’s gone off the deep end and shouldn’t be considered a Canadian hero. It likely has nothing to do with SLC.

The few people that may be suggesting this might be thinking of when Steve Fonyo and Conrad Black had their Order of Canada awards revoked. Although the Governor-General doesn't control Olympic medals, and Fonyo and Black were convicted of crimes.

 

[Winnipeg]

Although I had thought this one was beaten to death............I am compelled to offer the following:

1. She deserved the OGM as did her partner;

2. Her son is a teen and as such, is naturally a bit embarrassed at his mother's behavior and/or comments/views. She may have embarrassed him in front of friends so he wants to stay away for awhile.

3. SHe is not well educated and as such, may be more prone to brain washing? I do not know this for sure but it might be a factor.

4. Her behavior is abnormal but will not change until she sees this and changes? Seeing herself as a freedom fighter, if in fact that is what she thinks, is outrageous and seriously egotistical IMHO.

5. She should keep her OGM as it has nothing to do with her current public opinions.

6. WRT the comment being worth less than zero s a person, I don't think this is true of her. Am not sure though that no one person globally is less than zero. What about serial killers?

 

[once_upon]

I fail to see what circumstance, other than proven cheating like doping, would call for a retraction of a gold medal.

Her political stances are disappointing, disgusting, or a number of other words. People use their notoriety all the time to push their views.

We've seen other skaters go off the tracks - like Debbie Thomas - and have splits from family/children. It's sad she no longer has contact with her son.

 

[Judy]

Um. There were mandates. In order to travel, you needed the vaccine. In order to work in hospital/care homes, you had to have the vaccine. Here in NS, to work for NS Power you had to have the vaccine. In order to play school sports, you had to have the vaccine. So yes there were mandates for people to take the vaccine.

Each province did their own thing. Ontario/Quebec were the biggest hit because of our size. However, I remain sane.

Nova Scotia definitely did too.

 

[Andora]

Sale was an excellent pairs skater (though not my cup of tea). Her political views should have no bearing on her OGM. People who want to take away her gold medal for espousing political views are crazier and far more dangerous than she is.

I agree with this. Though I think the people suggesting she have her OGM taken from her are just spouting off nonsense on Twitter because they don't know better/think it would hurt her. It's nonsense and ridiculous.

Many disagree with me, but I do think it’s possible to have deep, fundamental disagreements with people and still maintain civil relationships. I maintain some family relationships despite the person believing gays will rot in hell, etc. If said people required me to change my beliefs to continue the relationship, I would not. I similarly don’t subject them to a purity test of asking them if they still believe gays will rot in hell before visiting. I don’t excuse or condone their beliefs, but I can put them in a metaphorical box. People are not one-dimensional, and some of the anti-gay relatives are great people in other respects. We’ve found a mutual truce that works for us.

I’m sorry for your parents’ treatment of you. No one deserves that, and I can only hope that they have come or will come to regret their actions deeply.

@VGThuy answered this beautifully, because you're not wrong that people can have civil (or even close) relationships with people they have fundamental political or socio-economical disagreements with. One of my absolute favourite people I play a rec sport with has severely different views than me politically-- but I believe she and I have many shared values regardless. And I think that's the line for me.

My political views are not self-defining, but my values are. I already maintain civil relationships with people I have to associate with through work or other obligations, and I do my best to avoid finding out if our values are so diametrically opposed to make that easier. But outside of those, when it comes to choosing the people we want in our lives, there is nothing wrong with ensuring you have enough values in alignment to maintain certain levels of trust, compassion, etc.

 

[Prancer]

I maintain some family relationships despite the person believing gays will rot in hell, etc.

So do they know you are gay? Do they compartmentalize that about you?

Because the issue for me wouldn't be so much what they believe, but whether or not they insisted on bringing it up all the time. If one of my relatives just thought I was going to rot in hell, I could probably maintain some sort of relationship with them. If one of my relatives kept telling me at every turn that I was going to rot in hell, I couldn't.

I kind of speak from experience here.

It's easy to compartmentalize and ignore behaviors and beliefs that aren't in your face all the time; I think everyone does that to some extent with all their family and friends or most of us wouldn't get along with anyone. It's quite another thing to be around someone who obsesses out loud about things that you find anywhere from annoying to unbearable.

I definitely speak from experience there.

I have no idea what Jaime Sale does or says, but I have a conspiracy-minded relative or two and they never. shut. up about it. It's unbearable to spend any kind of time with them because every conversation always turns to whatever craziness they are currently obsessed with. They drive everyone away--and they know it and will volunteer this knowledge--but they can't help themselves.

 

[Japanfan]

What you wrote is even more nonsense. Sale won an Olympic gold medal 20 years ago. I don’t think it was deserved, but my opinion aside, she won it.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? If she won it, didn't she deserve it?

When the French judge admitted to misconduct, should nothing have been done about it? If the event had not happened in North America, would it just have been ignored?

 

[jackson]

Huh? No that never happened

Here it is - any company with over 101 employees - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDO33-WMy3c .

That being said, I do think her views are far right, but I am more scared how quickly a person can be cancelled for expressing their perceived feelings whether it aligns with one views or the other. It's worth inward inspection, and the work of tolerance can only come from within which I think Jaime probably from my outside perspective needs to work on, as well as everyone trying to take away from her achievements due to her opinions. All this hatred is scary to me, tbh.

What you wrote is even more nonsense. Sale won an Olympic gold medal 20 years ago. I don’t think it was deserved, but my opinion aside, she won it. Absolutely nothing, other than proven cheating in the timeframe of that competition, should ever result in that gold medal being taken away. The notion that Olympic gold medalists (among others) should have to live by some liberal / cancel culture morality code for the rest of their lives, or risk having their past achievements erased, is a big part of the reason why Sale and others are fighting so hard.

Even if you think Sale is a crazy quack, why is it so hard to accept that people are multi-dimensional and each of us has good and bad qualities? Sale was an excellent pairs skater (though not my cup of tea). Her political views should have no bearing on her OGM. People who want to take away her gold medal for espousing political views are crazier and far more dangerous than she is.

Could not have said it better myself! Thank you @Louis . Also can't believe we are still beating this to death. I think people who know every detail of her son's life and said "Sorry, Jesse" citing his actual age are more scary than the political left or right if I have to be honest!

 

[Vagabond]

Here it is - any company with over 101 employees - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDO33-WMy3c

Did you bother to read the description?

President Biden announced the most sweeping COVID-19 vaccine requirements yet on Thursday, including a requirement that all employees at companies with at least 100 employees be vaccinated or undergo regular testing.