Canadian Ice Dance 2018-19 season news & updates

chameleonster

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I feel like if S/F wanted to do Dirty Diana, they should have waited until another year. It's a stretch, which could be good for them down the road, but so is the tango, especially their very modern take on it, and as a result they have no program that's comfortable for them this year. Might have been smarter to have a softer, lighter FD this year, and then do a bubbly Broadyway RD next year and then try the Weeknd medley. I have seen great improvement in their interpretation and performance over the season, but they might have stretched a little too far.
 

legjumper

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I like S/F, but I don't like their programs this season. The programs themselves are not bad, but I always feel like S/F are fighting their music. Last season they seemed to float along to the music, but the club remix tango approach isn't working for me at all, and the moody FD doesn't fit them. They're still a relatively new team, so they may still be experimenting with different styles (remember when baby Cappellini/Lanotte had the Requiem for a Dream FD, a style never to be repeated) - but it's a really bad time for them to be working through these issues with fresh competition domestically in the form of Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen (and it won't get any easier once Lajoie/Lagha move up).
 

Dobre

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I think Soucisse & Firus have a lot to learn. I think the FD is a stretch, but it's a good kind of stretch. I think the RD was a miscalculation. It could probably be pulled off by a top team, but it's not doing S&F any favors. I think they probably needed to master a more traditional tango style first. Though mostly it's the pattern kicking their butts.

S&F are a new team. You're not going to hit it out of the park every season. This is the time to develop the skills they don't have yet. So that one day, when they really need them, they have those skills.
 

Sylvia

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Re-posting @levineismine's question here from the Challenge thread in Kiss & Cry:
With only one spot alongside Lajoie/Lagha, the fight for Junior Worlds will be brutal. Is it going to be decided only based on Nationals or will they take into account other international placements?
Challenge Junior Dance top 9 finishers:

Rank Score Name Segment1 Segment2
1 156.73 Alicia Fabbri / Paul Ayer - QC 62.53 (1) 94.20 (1)
2 153.43 Yuka Orihara / Lee Royer - BC/YK 60.27 (4) 93.16 (3)
3 151.51 Irina Galiyanova / Grayson Lochhead - ON 60.98 (3) 90.53 (5)
4 150.65 Emmy Bronsard / Aissa Bouaraguia - QC 57.50 (7) 93.15 (4)
5 150.24 Ashylnne Stairs / Elliott Graham - ON 62.10 (2) 88.14 (8)
6 149.29 Ellie Fisher / Simon-Pierre Malette-Paquette - QC 55.82 (9) 93.47 (2)
7 146.84 Natalie D Alessandro / Bruce Waddell - ON 58.14 (5) 88.70 (6)
8 145.69 Miku Makita / Tyler Gunara - BC/YK 57.09 (8) 88.60 (7)
9 144.02 Olivia McIsaac / Corey Circelli - ON 57.93 (6) 86.09 (9)

Orihara competed for Japan in the Senior Dance event at Mentor Torun Cup on Feb. 3, 2018 so she and Royer may not be able to get the JW minimums in time? 2019 Junior Worlds is March 4-10 and the entries by name deadline is Monday, February 11, 2019 at 20:00 in Zagreb.

Canadian Junior dance teams as currently ranked by JGP total score on the ISU SB list:

39 152.46 Ellie FISHER / Simon-Pierre MALETTE-PAQUETTE CAN ISU JGP Armenian Cup 2018 13.10.2018
56 140.67 Emmy BRONSARD / Aissa BOUARAGUIA CAN ISU JGP Czech Skate 2018 28.09.2018
60 138.13 Natalie D'ALESSANDRO / Bruce WADDELL CAN ISU JGP Canada 2018 14.09.2018
63 136.75 Ashlynne STAIRS / Elliott GRAHAM CAN ISU JGP Amber Cup 2018 08.09.2018
65 135.66 Alicia FABBRI / Paul AYER CAN ISU JGP Bratislava 2018 25.08.2018
66 134.19 Olivia MCISAAC / Corey CIRCELLI CAN ISU JGP Czech Skate 2018 28.09.2018
71 132.58 Irina GALIYANOVA / Grayson LOCHHEAD CAN ISU JGP Amber Cup 2018 08.09.2018
80 127.80 Miku MAKITA / Tyler GUNARA CAN ISU JGP Canada 2018 14.09.2018
87 124.57 Nadiia BASHYNSKA / Peter BEAUMONT CAN ISU JGP Bratislava 2018 25.08.2018
 
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RoseRed

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I think they'll likely go with National's placement. Unless it's something like Makita/Gunara 2nd then Fisher/Malette-Paquette close behind in 3rd.

If I had to guess, I think the 2nd spot will end up being another Quebec team - either Fabbri/Ayer or F/MP.
 

starrynight

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I think that Laurence and Nikolaj will get the third Canadian spot if they can get anywhere near that score of 74.14 at Nationals. It's a lot higher than the scores that Soucisse/Firus have been getting.

Also a level 4 on one set of the tango romantica pattern. Nice.

I know that this is a domestic competition, but it's still promising.

The big challenge for Canadian skating is to get entry spots for the home 2020 Worlds. Ice dance easily has the best depth, so I'm glad that a strong team can be sent to 2019 Worlds.
 

Colonel Green

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I think that Laurence and Nikolaj will get the third Canadian spot if they can get anywhere near that score of 74.14 at Nationals. It's a lot higher than the scores that Soucisse/Firus have been getting.
For comparison, both teams skated the rhythm dance at Quebec championnats, where Laurence and Nikolaj got a 71 and Carolane and Shane got a 70.
 

starrynight

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For comparison, both teams skated the rhythm dance at Quebec championnats, where Laurence and Nikolaj got a 71 and Carolane and Shane got a 70.
Good point. Scoring can be so difficult to track because then Soucisse/Firus got the following for the RD in their other international comps:

NHK: 66.01
Skate Canada: 57.10
Finlandia: 70.95
Autumn Classic: 65.38
 

Dobre

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There's no comparison. In 2016, Gilles & Poirier had 80.04 in the SD at SC Challenge. Their ISU SB in the short that season was 72.83 (and mind you, that was an SB from Worlds). More than a 7 point difference. By that yardstick, Soucisse & Firus's score from NHK would be right in the target area. We're just going to have to wait & see F-B&S and S&F skate head-to-head at Nationals. (Personally, I'm going with F-B&S if both teams skate well; but the scores from SC Challenge aren't the reason I think that's likely).
 
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starrynight

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There's no comparison. In 2016, Gilles & Poirier had 80.04 in the SD at SC Challenge. Their ISU SB in the short that season was 72.83 (and mind you, that was an SB from Worlds). More than a 7 point difference. By that yardstick, Soucisse & Firus's score from NHK would be right in the target area. We're just going to have to wait & see F-B&S and S&F skate head-to-head at Nationals. (Personally, I'm going with F-B&S if both teams skate well; but the scores from SC Challenge aren't the reason I think that's likely).
Oh yes, I remember that. At the time it was a Canadian record high score. I think they went to the Challenge to try to get a high score to bolster their chances at Nationals. Their score was closer at Nationals at 78.15 - but it didn't hold at Worlds or 4CC. I recall at the time this was a part of a big push to take over the second Canadian ranking spot - and they were quite close to doing it. I recall a lot of commentators and people within Canadian skating were backing them that season. They could definitely smell blood in the water with W/P being vulnerable that season after taking some political hits and having a late start to the season.

So maybe the Challengers can be an indication of the views of the judges domestically. Often the domestic intentions of judges can be quite different to the way things pan out internationally. Lots of people in Canada wanted G/P to be the second team, but in the end W/P came 4th to their 8th at 2017 Worlds, so who knows.
 

Dobre

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The Challenge scores in the RD clarify that the Canadian judges at this particular event believe Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen are stronger than Sales & Wamsteeker. (Which they are). It doesn't tell us anything about how the judges feel about teams that are not at the event.

I think both calling & GOE tend to run higher in domestic competitions, but that's just a general observation. I have not done a study, and it is not always true. Scores for international events alone vary widely.
 

Dobre

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Orihara competed for Japan in the Senior Dance event at Mentor Torun Cup on Feb. 3, 2018 so she and Royer may not be able to get the JW minimums in time? 2019 Junior Worlds is March 4-10 and the entries by name deadline is Monday, February 11, 2019 at 20:00 in Zagreb.
:(He has one more junior season, yes? Do we know how old Yuka is? He has a good amount of experience on the junior circuit. Went to Junior Worlds two years ago and had one of the best placements for a Canadian team on the JGP last season. (Stairs & Royer defeated Popova & Byelikov, who have been hovering around the tenth spot the past two years). O&R won the big season opener this summer and medaled in the domestic event at Lake Placid. Now finished 2nd at Challenge. A brand new team, but they've been solid.
 
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barbarafan

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Oh yes, I remember that. At the time it was a Canadian record high score. I think they went to the Challenge to try to get a high score to bolster their chances at Nationals. Their score was closer at Nationals at 78.15 - but it didn't hold at Worlds or 4CC. I recall at the time this was a part of a big push to take over the second Canadian ranking spot - and they were quite close to doing it. I recall a lot of commentators and people within Canadian skating were backing them that season. They could definitely smell blood in the water with W/P being vulnerable that season after taking some political hits and having a late start to the season.

So maybe the Challengers can be an indication of the views of the judges domestically. Often the domestic intentions of judges can be quite different to the way things pan out internationally. Lots of people in Canada wanted G/P to be the second team, but in the end W/P came 4th to their 8th at 2017 Worlds, so who knows.
That challange was a big fix in the ice dance...It was held in MTL. In the FD the PCS were all over 9.00 for G/P and one judge....Caroline Martin who was judging the dance today as well, gave them 9.75 on every category. I've never seen judging that bad.
 

RoseRed

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:(He has one more junior season, yes? Do we know how old Yuka is? The Bavarian Open is scheduled for February 12-17th. Would that work if Canada elected to send them? (Might Canada consider it if Orihara & Royer place well at Nationals? He has a good amount of experience on the junior circuit. Went to Junior Worlds two years ago and had one of the best placements for a Canadian team on the JGP last season. (Stairs & Royer defeated Popova & Byelikov, who have been hovering around the tenth spot the past two years). O&R won the big season opener this summer and medaled in the domestic event at Lake Placid. Now finished 2nd at Challenge. A brand new team, but they've been solid.
This is their last junior season as a team. They could get the minimums at the Bavarian Open (Feb 5th-10th). The deadline is Feb 11th for Junior Worlds I believe.

As for whether they'll be sent, I'm not sure. I have a feeling it's going to come down to them, Fabbri/Ayer and Fisher/Malette-Paquette. F/A did better at Challenge, and F/MP had the best international results and probably would have scored right around O/R without Simon's fall in the RD. F/MP were 2nd in the FD. Both F/A and F/MP have their minimums and I wouldn't say O/R are notably better than either of those two teams. There's definitely no way O/R get sent if they don't come 2nd at Nationals (behind L/L) imo. Well, unless it's all over the place and F/A and F/MP are both way lower.
 

RoseRed

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That challange was a big fix in the ice dance...It was held in MTL. In the FD the PCS were all over 9.00 for G/P and one judge....Caroline Martin who was judging the dance today as well, gave them 9.75 on every category. I've never seen judging that bad.
Not sure why it being in Montreal is relevant. G/P train in Toronto.
 

Dobre

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As for whether they'll be sent, I'm not sure. I have a feeling it's going to come down to them, Fabbri/Ayer and Fisher/Malette-Paquette. F/A did better at Challenge, and F/MP had the best international results and probably would have scored right around O/R without Simon's fall in the RD. F/MP were 2nd in the FD. Both F/A and F/MP have their minimums and I wouldn't say O/R are notably better than either of those two teams. There's definitely no way O/R get sent if they don't come 2nd at Nationals (behind L/L) imo. Well, unless it's all over the place and F/A and F/MP are both way lower.
I just want Orihara & Royer to have a fair shot. They've defeated both F&A and F&M-P head-to-head in competition this season. And O&R have been solid, while the other two teams have had some major errors. If O&R finish second at Nationals, I'd like to see them get to go. There's finally some depth in the junior field, and it would be nice to see whoever goes in the second spot to Junior Worlds finally finish high enough to help earn that third spot.
 

barbarafan

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Not sure why it being in Montreal is relevant. G/P train in Toronto.
It was mentioned to make sure I had the right challenge....I was not well at the time. The one I was talking about was where Mitch Islam and Alex.Paul retired a few wks before it. Carol Lane has lots of political power within ice dance throughout Canada.
 

kwanfan1818

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Class is the Danish Federation (bold added):

We spoke with our federation. They were really sorry about the situation and were so helpful but they said, ‘we can’t make this happen and at your level you deserve to be at the Olympics. So, whatever you need … we are going to help you to do whatever you feel is right.’

“After 2018 Europeans we spoke to the vice-president of the federation and our coaches. We decided that skating for Canada made the most sense. Laurence is Canadian, we train in Canada and I am becoming Canadian.”

Within weeks, the Danish federation had sent Skate Canada a release, but Sørensen said it was kept under wraps until after the Olympics.
 

ichiro

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I love these two Alicia Fabbri / Paul Ayer - Let's hope they'll continue to stay competitive and not get swallowed up by the politic powers of Gadbois :) She's so expressive for her age!
 

Colonel Green

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I love these two Alicia Fabbri / Paul Ayer - Let's hope they'll continue to stay competitive and not get swallowed up by the politic powers of Gadbois :) She's so expressive for her age!
They had such a miserable time on the Junior Grand Prix, what with all his mistakes, so I was happy that they finally got a good competition.
 

Moustaffask8r

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I just want Orihara & Royer to have a fair shot. They've defeated both F&A and F&M-P head-to-head in competition this season. And O&R have been solid, while the other two teams have had some major errors. If O&R finish second at Nationals, I'd like to see them get to go. There's finally some depth in the junior field, and it would be nice to see whoever goes in the second spot to Junior Worlds finally finish high enough to help earn that third spot.
F/Mp have a boring free dance, no speed, no connection. By far the worse program in Montreal... O/R are fast and beautiful to watch, looking solid compare to the other two. F/A looked really good!
 

ichiro

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O/R what a revelation in the RD - This is how you skate to that particular piece of Tango elevator music. Where as it doesn't really work for S/F - they appear to be skating to just background music.
 

barbarafan

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I love these two Alicia Fabbri / Paul Ayer - Let's hope they'll continue to stay competitive and not get swallowed up by the politic powers of Gadbois :) She's so expressive for her age!
ITA.....She always has been and she usually has nerves of steel. They seem to have made a few changes to their programs, not sure how long ago as she had a few steps which were not perfect and this is something I have never seen.
Paul was clean. At their last international they clicked blades as they skate so close and it is now been 6 months they have been together so it will take time for the sense of always feeling where your partner is. I am amazed at what they have done in that time. Their coaches are fabulous as well as their choreographer and some of que.top teams cut their teeth with those coaches before Gaddbois got them. Sort of off topic ..last yr with Alicia's former partner who aged out of juniors they did a Moulin Rouge program which debuted b4 V/M's program choice was released I liked better than V/M's first version.(not where it ended up of course).

I actually felt Bruce and Natalie would win until his fateful fall. She is turning into a complete beast on the ice and their programs keep inproving so much. I think at nationals there are so many teams which are so good....and I hope Skate Canada gives them all incentives to stay in the game. ie the ones who did not make worlds this yr are sent to other internationals early in the season and they are told they will be.
 

Colonel Green

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Laurence and Nikolaj just got 117 in the FD at Challenge (and that was for a performance that featured a twizzle bobble from Nikolaj). I imagine the Nationals judges are going to really crank up the scores for Piper/Paul and Kaitlyn/Andrew.
 

barbarafan

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Laurence and Nikolaj just got 117 in the FD at Challenge (and that was for a performance that featured a twizzle bobble from Nikolaj). I imagine the Nationals judges are going to really crank up the scores for Piper/Paul and Kaitlyn/Andrew.
Piper and Paul for sure....Not sure what they will do with W/P.
 

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