Buffy Sainte-Marie and claims of false indigenous heritage

[Jot the Dot Dot]

The Fifth Estate I honestly don't know what to make of this.

 

[caseyedwards]

Transracial

 

[Buzz]

It wouldn’t be the first time someone did something like this.

 

[rfisher]

I don't know. I wasn't impressed by their evidence and conclusions, especially considering how Native children were adopted out and records were changed. It was appalling that they pulled birth certificates for a documentary. A lot of Native adults have no idea who their ancestors were for this very reason. Canada and the US both have horrible histories during this time period that they really would prefer not be made public. DNA would be the only compelling data and she's not likely to do that at this point in her life.

 

[skategal]

I don't know. I wasn't impressed by their evidence and conclusions, especially considering how Native children were adopted out and records were changed. It was appalling that they pulled birth certificates for a documentary. A lot of Native adults have no idea who their ancestors were for this very reason. Canada and the US both have horrible histories during this time period that they really would prefer not be made public. DNA would be the only compelling data and she's not likely to do that at this point in her life.

Agree.

It’s quite common especially in the USA for adoptees to be given new birth certificates with the adoptive parents listed as the parents.

It was also common of the time to deny Indigenous adoptees were Indigenous because of the stigma of both adoption and racism.

As well, over the counter DNA tests are very poor at identifying Indigenous roots.

All that to say that she could be faking it but we will probably never know the truth one way or the other.

It’s too complicated a situation to know without intensive investigation.

 

[rfisher]

Even as late as the 1960s you could essentially buy a Native baby if you wanted and the records would indicate they were yours by birth. It wasn't until the 70s most US tribes had the power to say no to all those "good intentions" to rescue the child from reservation poverty. There has been a lot of recent attention being brought to this and to the absolutely appalling number of missing Indigenous women. Their rates are way higher than those of White or Black women and most are never found or even investigated.

 

[kwanfan1818]

There are also the complications of what tribes legally can require for membership, or even whether tribes are recognized — here, the Duwamish are culturally and historically recognized locally as a tribe, but not by the Federal government after the Bush administration revoked it — that leaves people of indigenous ancestry the equivalent of stateless. (Tribeless?).

 

[Judy]

The evidence is pretty overwhelming. The birth certificate? Her story changed so many times. I don’t see her representatives offering a DNA sample either. It definitely won’t happen.

 

[rfisher]

The evidence is pretty overwhelming. The birth certificate? Her story changed so many times. I don’t see her representatives offering a DNA sample either. It definitely won’t happen.

The changing story is not uncommon for adopted Indigenous children who don't know what their tribal affiliations were. And, I'm not convinced by anything associated with the birth certificate because they were totally faked for a lot of adopted Indigenous children. Neither of those pieces of the so-called evidence are at all meaningful or indicative of anything. Why should she offer her DNA? Her Native relatives (and if you are adopted into a Native tribe, they consider you a relative) are satisfied.

 

[Jenny]

This is the companion article to the televised piece - long, detailed, attributed and with historical pictures and images of various documents mentioned. Worth a read.

 

[cygnus]

Agree.

It’s quite common especially in the USA for adoptees to be given new birth certificates with the adoptive parents listed as the parents.

It was also common of the time to deny Indigenous adoptees were Indigenous because of the stigma of both adoption and racism.

As well, over the counter DNA tests are very poor at identifying Indigenous roots.

All that to say that she could be faking it but we will probably never know the truth one way or the other.

It’s too complicated a situation to know without intensive investigation.

Except that in this case, her birth certificate is in sequence with other babies born at that time. Had it been retroactive, they would not have changed the numbering on every other birth certificate after hers.

 

[rfisher]

Except that in this case, her birth certificate is in sequence with other babies born at that time. Had it been retroactive, they would not have changed the numbering on every other birth certificate after hers.

Not if she didn't have a birth certificate at birth. Then the one filed by her parents would have been in sequence with all the others filed at that time. This is especially true if she was adopted as a newborn directly from a reservation or Catholic school. They wouldn't document an unwed mother at one of those schools and would have taken the infant away immediately.

I have no idea if she's Indigenous or not, although she certainly has the bone structure, but birth certificates for Indigenous adoptions were faked more often than not. And by faked, I don't mean it's not an original document filed with the public authorities, but that the information on the document is incorrect and not reflective of actual parentage. There was an NPR program about how often this happened last week and the consequences toward adults who determined their Native heritage but had no idea what tribal affiliations were. It was part of the overall cultural genocide toward Indigenous populations during the 19th and 20th centuries in the US, Canada, Hawai'i and Australia.

 

[Jot the Dot Dot]

And now she's been stripped of the prestigious Order Of Canada.

 

[Judy]

And now she's been stripped of the prestigious Order Of Canada.

The evidence was pretty overwhelming imo. No reason for the family members to lie. I personally think it was pretty awful what she did . The Fifth Estate always does a very good and fair investigation.

 

[Dragonlady]

I don't know. I wasn't impressed by their evidence and conclusions, especially considering how Native children were adopted out and records were changed. It was appalling that they pulled birth certificates for a documentary. A lot of Native adults have no idea who their ancestors were for this very reason. Canada and the US both have horrible histories during this time period that they really would prefer not be made public. DNA would be the only compelling data and she's not likely to do that at this point in her life.

As an adopted person, my birth certificate says I was born on May 21, 1949, to Clarence and Stella, my ADOPTED parents. It says nothing on my birth certificate about being adopted. In Ms. Saint Marie's case, one only need look at her and hear her sing to know she's native.

I don't understand how this smear piece even made it to air, much less resulted in her being stripped of her Order of Canada.

 

[Private Citizen]

In Ms. Saint Marie's case, one only need look at her and hear her sing to know she's native.

If you strip away the native decorations, she looks Southern Italian to me. Lo and behold, her father is Italian-American.

Almost all Italian immigrants were from the south of the country. Whether people want to admit it or not, there is significant mixing of North African and Arabic DNA in those regions. Although Italians have redefined themselves as white, the reality is a bit more complex -- especially from the south. So I'm not entirely sure I agree with the claim that she is white, or was born to Caucasian parents. One could say, truthfully, she was born to parents who self-identified as Caucasian or white. Putting the question of race aside, her colour and features are typical among Southern Italians.

I don't understand how this smear piece even made it to air, much less resulted in her being stripped of her Order of Canada.

Read the link Jenny posted above (from December 2023). The evidence is clear and incontrovertible. She could not have been born in Canada, transported to the US without record, and issued a new birth certificate in Massachusetts that is sequential in number to other babies born in Massachusetts during the same period. The birth certificate lists the doctor who delivered her, which is the same doctor who delivered her siblings. All evidence points to her "adoptive" parents being her biological parents, and to her birth having taken place in a hospital in Massachusetts -- not in Canada or on a native reservation.

She's a Pretendian. There are many. We had one on this board. They are aware that the history of legitimate native adoptees makes things hard to trace and take advantage of that. But the history of non-natives and non-adoptees is easy to trace. Someone has traced hers and proven her lie.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

As an adopted person, my birth certificate says I was born on May 21, 1949, to Clarence and Stella, my ADOPTED parents. It says nothing on my birth certificate about being adopted. In Ms. Saint Marie's case, one only need look at her and hear her sing to know she's native.

I don't understand how this smear piece even made it to air, much less resulted in her being stripped of her Order of Canada.

Her own son (who is Indigenous through his father) posted on social media that Buffy was of Italian heritage and was not Indigenous. She supposedly dyes her hair and tans (she does live in Hawaii). People thought Iron Eyes Cody looked Indigenous but he also was of Italian descent.

There were other investigations aside from the 5th Estate one (which apparently left out research/background material due to time restraints). People don't get stripped of their OCs very easily (it's only happened 9 or 10 times) so I suspect that there must have been enough corroborating evidence to do so. I can't imagine an Inuk Governor-General would have permitted the stripping to happen otherwise.

 

[Judy]

As an adopted person, my birth certificate says I was born on May 21, 1949, to Clarence and Stella, my ADOPTED parents. It says nothing on my birth certificate about being adopted. In Ms. Saint Marie's case, one only need look at her and hear her sing to know she's native.

I don't understand how this smear piece even made it to air, much less resulted in her being stripped of her Order of Canada.

She was not adopted.

 

[skategal]

You certainly can’t go based on what people look like that’s for sure.

Both my mom, my aunt, and my grandfather get/got mistaken for Middle Eastern all the time. They are/were not.

My aunt had the family DNA competed and all that came back was 95% English, 5% Scottish.

My husband is also mistaken for non-white (Greek, Lebanese, Italian, Mexican, Indigenous) regularly. He’s also as white genetically as you can be. English/Irish.

 

[PRlady]

If you strip away the native decorations, she looks Southern Italian to me. Lo and behold, her father is Italian-American.

Almost all Italian immigrants were from the south of the country. Whether people want to admit it or not, there is significant mixing of North African and Arabic DNA in those regions. Although Italians have redefined themselves as white, the reality is a bit more complex -- especially from the south. So I'm not entirely sure I agree with the claim that she is white, or was born to Caucasian parents. One could say, truthfully, she was born to parents who self-identified as Caucasian or white. Putting the question of race aside, her colour and features are typical among Southern Italians.



Read the link Jenny posted above (from December 2023). The evidence is clear and incontrovertible. She could not have been born in Canada, transported to the US without record, and issued a new birth certificate in Massachusetts that is sequential in number to other babies born in Massachusetts during the same period. The birth certificate lists the doctor who delivered her, which is the same doctor who delivered her siblings. All evidence points to her "adoptive" parents being her biological parents, and to her birth having taken place in a hospital in Massachusetts -- not in Canada or on a native reservation.

She's a Pretendian. There are many. We had one on this board. They are aware that the history of legitimate native adoptees makes things hard to trace and take advantage of that. But the history of non-natives and non-adoptees is easy to trace. Someone has traced hers and proven her lie.

Johnny Cash’s first wife was Sicilian. When photos surfaced of her in the 1960s, he took a lot of hate for having a Black wife: https://images.app.goo.gl/TYBT2ros51pu2vET7

Most Mediterranean peoples are a DNA hodgepodge. All I know is that in Spain, every store I walked into, they addressed me in Spanish and were abashed that no habla espanol. Same thing happens in Italy, Greece and Malta. There’s a Mediterranean look and Buffy has it.

 

[Andora]

As an adopted person, my birth certificate says I was born on May 21, 1949, to Clarence and Stella, my ADOPTED parents. It says nothing on my birth certificate about being adopted. In Ms. Saint Marie's case, one only need look at her and hear her sing to know she's native.

I don't understand how this smear piece even made it to air, much less resulted in her being stripped of her Order of Canada.

I mean... it was CBC. They're not perfect, but in the Canadian media landscape, they're more reliable than others.

 

[RoseAugust]

This is really disappointing to me. I know the lyrics of very few songs, but I know every word of My Country Tis of Thy People You're Dieing.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Buffy Sainte-Marie has been stripped of her Juno and Polaris awards due to not being Canadian.

 

[Vagabond]

In Ms. Saint Marie's case, one only need look at her and hear her sing to know she's native.

How can you possibly know that from hearing her sing?

 

[skateycat]

No Native nation bases its citizenship on how one looks, how high one's cheekbones are, or how one sings. Or even on DNA tests.

It's all about who your parents are, because it's lineal descendancy with or without a specific blood quantum. There are some that add in requirements like being involved with the community or living within the community.

I’ve been disappointed to learn of non-Native status of a growing number of artists and writers who I studied in Native American studies in the late 1980s and early 1990s, including Gail Tremblay, Jimmie Durham, and Joseph Bruchac.

 

[Judy]

Buffy Sainte-Marie has been stripped of her Juno and Polaris awards due to not being Canadian.

She’s admitted to not being Canadian Just horrible what she did to her brother. Unforgiveable.

I’m very sad for the people on here though that really valued her though.

 

[puglover]

She’s admitted to not being Canadian Just horrible what she did to her brother. Unforgiveable.

I’m very sad for the people on here though that really valued her though.

Although she no doubt was given opportunities and rewards for which she was not entitled that therefore denied others who were rightfully eligible, as is so often the case, the cover-up was the most egregious and especially to her brother. She did do a lot to further indigenous causes but it is hard to remember that now.