Bruno Massot called Savchenko “A tyrant” and said he has PTSD after working with her.

[On My Own]

@tony Yes, I too regularly laugh at this post of yours, mr. skating insider who can't tell lutz from flutz: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ason-news-updates.108445/page-41#post-6160773

Anyway. I'm sure Ilia is crying over being a worse jumper than Kagiyama as he lands 4A combos.

@MacMadame I'm sorry if my wording was too harsh by the way. It was too early in the morning/late in the night. I just meant to explain my personal feelings, and I only want to withdraw from conversation on some of these discussion threads because I don't think I understand everything that's being said on them (which is my own personal problem, of course).

 

[tony]

]

@tony Yes, I too regularly laugh at this post of yours, mr. skating insider who can't tell lutz from flutz: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ason-news-updates.108445/page-41#post-6160773

Anyway. I'm sure Ilia is crying over being a worse jumper than Kagiyama as he lands 4A combos.

I'm not sure why you are back here to call me out on a post from 13 months ago, about US vs. Japanese men jumping technique and air position, when this is the second thread you were supposedly leaving and the comment comes in the middle of a Savchenko/Massot thread. For the record, I still think Kagiyama has better quality to his jumps than Malinin and it had nothing to do with Malinin's capability of doing a 4A but I suspect you know that and just want another argument.

Thanks for looking it up to have another argument, though? You can always take it to PM if you'd like.

 

[cholla]

They spread a machine translation, from what I can tell. How can you vouch for the accuracy of the translation? Have you read it?

I have. I'm a French native and a subscriber to l'Equipe and l'Equipe Magazine. At the beginning of this thread, you posted a link to a translation of the article made by a poster on GS. The translation is totally accurate and even excellent. It doesn't distort anything reported in the original article.

 

[jenny12]

Good for Bruno for speaking out. The idea that just because someone isn’t as talented or got a gold medal means they don’t have the right to give voice to their trauma is ridiculous and actually dangerous. We’ve seen so many public figures be able to get away with abuse because they were successful. This attitude really needs to change if we don’t want to continue to perpetuate a culture that makes it easier for abusers to get away with it. Obviously, I wasn’t there and don’t know what happened but people should never be discouraged for speaking out about abuse and trauma.

 

[Minou]

Is anyone able to share an original French version of the article? Thank you.

 

[Vagabond]

It looks like Savchenko endured abuse herself, coming up through the ranks. Some of her coaches' bad tactics may have rubbed off on her. This article is from last year and is geoblocked in North America, so use a good VPN.

'Coaches hit me with pads' - 2018 champion Aljona Savchenko opens up on skating trauma - Winter Olympics - Eurosport

Aljona Savchenko, one of the world’s most decorated pair skaters and a gold medallist in Pyeongchang four years ago, has opened up on some of her trauma.

www.eurosport.com

“I had coaches who would hit me on the head with pads if I did any elements badly," she said. "I’ve had coaches shooting water pistols in the cold ice rink. I’ve had coaches who gave us little food. Sometimes it was like a punishment: get up in the morning, first weigh yourself, then eat a little, have a salad for lunch, and nothing at all in the evening,” she said.

"There were times where we were hungry. We secretly asked for food in the canteen, stole something here and there and ate in hiding. There was no other way. Yes, you have to be disciplined if you want to achieve something. But you also have to know your limits. How far do I actually go?

"There was also a trainer who forced me to train, even though my body couldn’t do it. We are human beings and not machines.”

Scary stuff.

 

[Alilou]

It looks like Savchenko endured abuse herself, coming up through the ranks. Some of her coaches' bad tactics may have rubbed off on her. This article is from last year and is geoblocked in North America, so use a good VPN.

'Coaches hit me with pads' - 2018 champion Aljona Savchenko opens up on skating trauma - Winter Olympics - Eurosport

Aljona Savchenko, one of the world’s most decorated pair skaters and a gold medallist in Pyeongchang four years ago, has opened up on some of her trauma.

www.eurosport.com

Scary stuff.

Not geoblocked in Canada.

 

[canbelto]

It's not geoblocked for me. More from Savchenko. This is depressing. It seems as if extremely harsh, cruel methods of training are all Savchenko has ever known and it's not a surprise she repeated the pattern herself.

“‘You have to lose weight. You’re too fat!’ [a former coach said]," added Savchenko. "I said, ‘Okay, how am I supposed to lose weight?’ They said, ‘If you eat, you throw up. You just put two fingers in your mouth.’
"Fortunately, at that point I was already aware that I wasn’t allowed to be treated like that. Of course, children who are 13, 14 or 15 go along with it.”

 

[deegee]

elite sports really suck. such inhumane expectations and treatment of athletes!

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Savchenko is a tyrant. Is that news? A lot of elite athletes are. She is not pleasant, she is not nice to be around, etc. Massot made an educated decision to form a partnership with her in pursuit of athletic & financial goals. He could have walked away from her at any point. Cry me a river.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I don't know if anyone saw Alijona in her early days when she skated with I think it was Makarov. I attended a practice at the GWG when they were in Brisbane. She was pretty young. But from even over the other side of the rink you could see the coach and her partner were yelling and behaving badly. I was quite shocked.

If that is the kind of environment you train in, then that is what you learn.

But we can change and make things better. Maybe that is why this stuff needs to be called out when it happens.

 

[tony]

I don't know if anyone saw Alijona in her early days when she skated with I think it was Makarov. I attended a practice at the GWG when they were in Brisbane. She was pretty young. But from even over the other side of the rink you could see the coach and her partner were yelling and behaving badly. I was quite shocked.

If that is the kind of environment you train in, then that is what you learn.

But we can change and make things better. Maybe that is why this stuff needs to be called out when it happens.

It was Stanislav Morozov, who then went on to skate with Tatiana Volosozhar before retiring and becoming part of her coaching team.

 

[Aussie Willy]

It was Stanislav Morozov, who then went on to skate with Tatiana Volosozhar before retiring and becoming part of her coaching team.

Yep that's the one.

 

[jlai]

Perhaps adrenaline and goals got them through the Olympics and worlds, and when the excitement is gone, and folks go back to living mandane lives, they look back on the past and go "that was absolutely nuts"?
I know I would

 

[skateboy]

I believe Bruno.

It was clear that Aljona was willing to do anything to get a gold medal and she did.

 

[sus2850]

Was it mentoned that Bruno wrote this, from his verified account on Facebook as a comment on the TSL post?

„Hi everyone! This is just a part of the article! It was very difficult of course! But you all have to know that without all of this (maybe) I wouldn’t be strong enough to get the gold… I said maybe! It is not an attack against aljona or my story that I want to tell 5 years after. The article was about the relationship in sport partners, what was difficult and what wasn’t ! That’s it!
I think there is more important in life than this…
So thank you for all the comments but I just turned the page and my life is different now.“

 

[Xela M]

Somehow this is not surprising at all, yet deeply depressing.

It's sad she doesn't seem to have good relationships with any of the people she worked closely with. Not Robin, not Ingo, not Bruno ... no one. And now, not even Liam.

I'm completely out of touch, so apologies for the stupid question, but has she split with Liam?

As for Bruno, I have no sympathy. He was nothing without her and wanted the OGM. Now that he achieved it thanks to her, he can badmouth her.

 

[just tuned in]

Was it mentoned that Bruno wroze this, from his verified account on Facebook as a comment on the TSL post?

„Hi everyone! This is just a part of the article! It was very difficult of course! But you all have to know that without all of this (maybe) I wouldn’t be strong enough to get the gold… I said maybe! It is not an attack against aljona or my story that I want to tell 5 years after. The article was about the relationship in sport partners, what was difficult and what wasn’t ! That’s it!
I think there is more important in life than this…
So thank you for all the comments but I just turned the page and my life is different now.“

Haha, I bet that Alonja wrote that for him and ordered him to post it. Whatever, man. Please go get some therapy for your ‘PTSD’.

 

[airgelaal]

Haha, I bet that Alonja wrote that for him and ordered him to post it. Whatever, man. Go get some therapy to help you through your 'PTSD'.

But to be honest, we have not seen the full article

 

[canbelto]

I'm completely out of touch, so apologies for the stupid question, but has she split with Liam?

As for Bruno, I have no sympathy. He was nothing without her and wanted the OGM. Now that he achieved it thanks to her, he can badmouth her.

Again I'm disturbed by the idea that an OGM is an excuse for abuse.
And yes she split with Liam awhile back.

 

[skatingguy]

But to be honest, we have not seen the full article

There is a translation posted to Golden Skate - the original article is behind a paywall on L'Equipe.

Article L'Equipe: "Stories of couples in figure skating"

Article L'Equipe 12 Feb 23: Here is an article I only found today. It was actually published a few days ago, just before St Valentine's. Article written by Thomas Héteau. L'Equipe is the main sports newspaper in France. Always good to see that the majority of pair skaters and dancers manage to...

www.goldenskate.com

 

[VGThuy]

I'm completely out of touch, so apologies for the stupid question, but has she split with Liam?

As for Bruno, I have no sympathy. He was nothing without her and wanted the OGM. Now that he achieved it thanks to her, he can badmouth her.

Not that it matters in the case of abuse, but no matter how good Aliona is, she couldn’t win a PAIRS Olympic gold medal without him or any partner no matter how bad they are. And now that he won the medal, he can better determine whether it was worth what he went through…and his answer is clear.

 

[Xela M]

Again I'm disturbed by the idea that an OGM is an excuse for abuse.
And yes she split with Liam awhile back.

But why didn't he leave? He was not a child trapped in a situation he couldn't get out of. He could have quit the partnership and left her. She didn't kidnap him and hold him against his will. She wasn't beating him up. He was being shouted at and forced to work hard to achieve the goal he himself wanted. He was free to leave at any time.

 

[tony]

But why didn't he leave? He was not a child trapped in a situation he couldn't get out of. He could have quit the partnership and left her. She didn't kidnap him and hold him against his will. She wasn't beating him up. He was being shouted at and forced to work hard to achieve the goal he himself wanted. He was free to leave at any time.

Because that's not how this typically works, in any situation. Why do women stay with their husbands even though they may suffer through a ton of domestic physical abuse?

...And why when the roles are reversed do much more people seem to 'get' it? It's really annoying.

Figure skating is either the only or a very large part of most athlete's identities. I agree with whoever earlier in the thread mentioned that they probably think a lot of things are normal/acceptable or they don't really comprehend it all until they've moved away from the competitive world and realize just how much happened.

 

[Xela M]

Not that it matters in the case of abuse, but no matter how good Aliona is, she couldn’t win a PAIRS Olympic gold medal without him or any partner no matter how bad they are. And now that he won the medal, he can better determine whether it was worth what he went through…and his answer is clear.

So Bruno had power over her as well. He could have left her and she wouldn't have been able to win an OGM. Why didn't he leave?

 

[Xela M]

Because that's not how this typically works, in any situation. Why do women stay with their husbands even though they may suffer through a ton of domestic physical abuse?

...And why when the roles are reversed do much more people seem to 'get' it? It's really annoying.

Women don't leave because they are usually trapped- no financial means to support themselves independently or be able to afford to rent/buy anywhere to live. It wasn't an abusive relationship where Bruno couldn't leave. He had a family, a girlfriend, a place to live etc. He wasn't tied to Aliona unless it was to achieve career goals that he couldn't achieve without her

 

[Xela M]

I find it really disingenuous to compare the plight of poor adult big bloke Bruno who was dragged against his will to unimaginable career success that he could only have dreamed of (by being forced to work hard and shouted at) to the plight of people truly trapped in abusive relationships they can't get out of.

 

[tony]

Women don't leave because they are usually trapped- no financial means to support themselves independently or be able to afford to rent/buy anywhere to live. It wasn't an abusive relationship where Bruno couldn't leave. He had a family, a girlfriend, a place to live etc. He wasn't tied to Aliona unless it was to achieve career goals that he couldn't achieve without her

But in sports, athletes can often feel trapped too regardless of what they have going on around them. There are plenty of extremely well-off skaters who have stayed with abusive coaches or partners for long, long times and then when they talk about their trauma, they mention how long it actually went on.

And I'm not saying it's always the case in abusive relationships, but sometimes said people do actually have options (going to live with family, being the more successful one, etc) unless you want to get into the dynamics of assuming the man always makes all the money in every single case.

And ETA- I'm quite convinced that this was a very highly successful team where the woman was claiming such, there would be literal posts here saying 'But you have to understand, pair men are so hard to come by, that's obviously why she had to stay with him!'

 

[skategal]

I don’t think it’s hard to understand why Bruno didn’t leave.

1. He made an agreement to do this for 4 years.

2. Lots of people implicated financially and professionally if he left.

3. Investment from the German Federation may have been in his mind.

4. He knew there was an end date. People can get through a lot of garbage when they know when it will end.

5. Would you want to be on the receiving end of breaking an agreement with Aliona?

In any case, it’s a shame that he feels the Olympic gold medal wasn’t worth it.

 

[VGThuy]

I also think it's a very dangerous slippery slope to compare people's situations and make judgments on why victims don't leave. "Well, she wasn't that poor, she could have gotten interim monetary support. She just enjoyed the lifestyle too much."