Bruno Massot called Savchenko “A tyrant” and said he has PTSD after working with her.

[just tuned in]

He got out of the abusive relationship and spent a few years thinking and processing his feelings about his experiences. This is very common among those who have been abused.

Well, he can feel the way he wants to of course, but it sounds to me like, "Boo hoo, she was mean to me and bossy and we got angry at each other." Obviously not a perfect or equal partnership, but really, is that what he was expecting?

 

[starrynight]

Hasn’t it been widely acknowledged for the longest time that Savchenko is a very difficult personality?

I read that she once ‘mooed’ at Moore-Towers when she saw her eat an ice-cream.

What Massot describes is a pretty textbook kind of personality. Worked with someone like that once.

 

[coppertop1]

Well, he can feel the way he wants to of course, but it sounds to me like, "Boo hoo, she was mean to me and bossy and we got angry at each other." Obviously not a perfect o equal partnership, but really, is that what he was expecting?

This is why abuse victims stay silent and why abuse is allowed Maybe he expected an equal partnership? Good job on belittling and dismissing someone's trauma. I hope you feel good about it. Same from all those comments on here who are dismissing Bruno.

 

[Tesla]

And I most certainly do agree that if the roles were switched, 90% of the board or more would all have the same (very different) reaction and list out all the reasons why Savchenko was stuck. And probably there would be petitions and screenshots of emails all over the internet asking for Bruno to be permanently banned.

This bears repeating, too. If Aliona were saying Bruno was a tyrant and documenting the abuse, most posters would be leaping to her defense and vilifying Bruno. Men can be abused, too.

 

[coppertop1]

This bears repeating, too. If Aliona were saying Bruno was a tyrant and documenting the abuse, most posters would be leaping to her defense and vilifying Bruno. Men can be abused, too.

Louder for people in the back!

 

[canbelto]

Well, he can feel the way he wants to of course, but it sounds to me like, "Boo hoo, she was mean to me and bossy and we got angry at each other." Obviously not a perfect or equal partnership, but really, is that what he was expecting?

So he can’t expect to be treated with respect or an equal partnership? As I said, this is why abuse victims stay silent. All the “it’s your fault” nonsense.

 

[airgelaal]

The only thing that really confuses me in this story is the role of coaches. It is obvious that everything happened in front of their eyes. Have they distanced themselves from everything?

 

[Primorskaya]

The only thing that really confuses me in this story is the role of coaches. It is obvious that everything happened in front of their eyes. Have they distanced themselves from everything?

Coaches want to win OGMs too... And if he didn't make it plain to them that he wasn't doing so well on this regimen, mental-health wise, they had every incentive to look the other way imo.

 

[Vagabond]

The only thing that really confuses me in this story is the role of coaches. It is obvious that everything happened in front of their eyes. Have they distanced themselves from everything?

Either that or they simply don't recognize the abuse for what it is. Many, probably most, victims don't initially recognize it on their own.

Coaches should be required to receive training on how to recognize and respond to abuse and how to avoid engaging in it themselves. The same holds true of those in many other fields, of course.

 

[canbelto]

Its also possible the coaches were do focused on Aljona's goals that they didn't treat Bruno very seriously.

 

[MacMadame]

It is irresponsible to spread an article like that, and a paid one at that.

You keep saying this. I don't think it matters if it's behind a paywall or not. Someone who paid read it and spread the word. It's not like this interview and its contents are a secret.

 

[On My Own]

I don't think it matters if it's behind a paywall or not.

OK, I do.
ETA: By the way, the reason I bring up the paywall is because I don't see anyone on the PI board copy pasting paid articles. You gift them. I don't think you would copy paste, but I'd like to see you try if you're 100% fine with it.

Someone who paid read it and spread the word.

They spread a machine translation, from what I can tell. How can you vouch for the accuracy of the translation? Have you read it?

We know the summary of the contents, and that the person who read it vouches for that summary. However, there's discussion earlier on the page, as an example, of whether Massot "pushed" her and whether it comprises of physical abuse. How can I say what it really means unless someone says I have a reliable translation or not, or read the article myself? Or whether some things are really as severe as they seem in the translation?

Has someone here read it, so that they can vouch for it? Or can someone provide a different translation?

But with that, I'll take my leave from this thread. I am not sure I really like discussing things on this forum too much.

 

[Taso]

The only thing that really confuses me in this story is the role of coaches. It is obvious that everything happened in front of their eyes. Have they distanced themselves from everything?

Well one of their coaches is deceased so who knows? Honestly in interviews both Ballestar and Koening seemed a little bit scared of Aljona IMO

 

[bardtoob]

I have heard that it is typical that the female skater is the boss in pairs skating.

 

[Aussie Willy]

A point raised about coaches.

If you look at a skater/coach relationship, it is basically a workplace. The coaches are providing a service and are paid to do a job. However they have the ability to set the culture and create a healthy environment where people should be able to do their job safely and comfortably. That covers physical and emotional wellbeing. And it should be in their best interest to do that because it will enhance their reputation.

One of the unfortunate things I have seen in our sport over the years is the lack of the above. Many coaches totally disregard the above principles. When there is bad behaviour from either skaters or coaches it is excused instead of being condoned. And coaches also feel like they own the skaters they coach instead of realising they are being paid to do a job. It is aimed at results instead of a holistic approach to not just competition but the lives of the individuals.

People can correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard a lot of positive things about AIM. A parent of a skater I know who trains there said they set a high standard of professionalism and ethics. Skaters are expected to show respect towards each other and the coaching team. Yes you are expected to work hard but mental wellbeing is also important. Maybe that speaks towards the success of that coaching team.

 

[canbelto]

People can correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard a lot of positive things about AIM. A parent of a skater I know who trains there said they set a high standard of professionalism and ethics. Skaters are expected to show respect towards each other and the coaching team. Yes you are expected to work hard but mental wellbeing is also important. Maybe that speaks towards the success of that coaching team.

Didn't Gabby say that she fell pregnant the year before the Olympics, had to get an abortion, and that she didn't feel like the coaches or Gui were supportive?

 

[overedge]

I have heard that it is typical that the female skater is the boss in pairs skating.

Well, since she's the one being thrown through the air and dangled upside down, that kind of makes sense. If something goes wrong she's at more risk of being injured.

 

[overedge]

Didn't Gabby say that she fell pregnant the year before the Olympics, had to get an abortion, and that she didn't feel like the coaches or Gui were supportive?

You mean this?

Olympic champion Papadakis had an abortion during the 2021 World Cup - Athletistic

Beijing 2022 Olympic champion in ice dancing Gabriela Papadakis announced that she had an abortion during the 2021 World Cup. The athlete spoke about it in the documentary The Couple of Fire. Papadakis, paired with Guillaume Sizeron missed the entire 2020/21 season. - I got sick. I thought the...

athletistic.com

What I see here is her saying that the coaches wouldn't work with her until she got healthy, which is not the same as "had to get an abortion".

 

[Gris]

Didn't Gabby say that she fell pregnant the year before the Olympics, had to get an abortion, and that she didn't feel like the coaches or Gui were supportive?

That's inaccurate - the abortion was her own decision. What she said is that she was suffering from depression (probably worsened after abortion) and she felt there was a lack of understanding.

While I absolutely don't think this was handled adequately by her coaches and partner, this is not the same as "they forced her to get an abortion".

 

[Orm Irian]

That's inaccurate - the abortion was her own decision. What she said is that she was suffering from depression (probably worsened after abortion) and she felt there was a lack of understanding.

While I absolutely don't think this was handled adequately by her coaches and partner, this is not the same as "they forced her to get an abortion".

Yes, this. IIRC, what Gabriella said regarding skating and her decision to abort her unwanted pregnancy was that she could talk about it perfectly easily with her friends from outside the skating world, but found she couldn't talk about it the same way within the skating world - not even to Madison Hubbell, who's a very good friend. It wasn't her coaches or partner stopping her, but the culture of elite skating as a whole.

As to Bruno and Aljona, it's not at all unusual for a person to knuckle down and endure something difficult or even abusive, or rationalise it to themself as necessary, while they're going through it and have a goal in sight (the sunk cost fallacy can also come into play), and then later to look back and realise that Oh, yeah, that was actually pretty messed up. It sounds like with the perspective provided by time, that's the headspace that Bruno's in now, and it's absolutely fine for him to talk about it publicly if he wants to.

 

[clairecloutier]

ETA: By the way, the reason I bring up the paywall is because I don't see anyone on the PI board copy pasting paid articles. You gift them. I don't think you would copy paste, but I'd like to see you try if you're 100% fine with it.

I've never heard of any rule on FSU against posting paywalled articles. People sometimes do post paywalled articles in PI, and sometimes they gift them, and sometimes not. Some news web sites have gifting and some don't. And many or most news sites these days are either paywalled or have a monthly maximum of free articles. I don't consider it other people's responsibility to make sure I can read an article. They just provide the link-- If I want to read it, I can always subscribe.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The issue was not about posting links to articles behind a paywall or with free limited content: it was about posting content from those articles ("copy pasting paid articles.")

 

[Vagabond]

The idea of a gift is that it is voluntary, not mandated.



I might stop being quite so generous here. I am sure that The New York Times would appreciate receiving a few more subscriptions.

 

[Holy Headband]

It's true Bruno was not on the same level as Aljona and must have known very well what it would cost to succeed when he entered into a partnership with her. However, I totally believe she was a tyrant at best given that she seems incapable of sustaining a professional or personal relationship and also I don't see this interview as Bruno looking for sympathy or trying to stay relevant or anything, just being honest with the journalist. But even if he was looking for sympathy, well, again, the stuff he describes sounds abusive and shouldn't be dismissed as the ungrateful griping of a bitter ex-partner. As people have said here, Bruno won an Olympic gold thanks to Aljona—he never could have dreamed of it without her—and he must know how much he owes her better than any of us. So why would someone in his indebted position make such negative statements publicly? When looking back on the greatest success of their life, most people would gloss over the negative emotions associated with personality clashes and incompatible work styles because we tend to remember and talk about the good stuff rather than the bad. For Bruno to come out and criticise Aljona so openly, her conduct really must have been beyond the pale. So I am inclined to take his side here.

Edit: Also some of the comments I'm reading here are quite unfair to people stuck in abusive work environments. Workplace abuse is a real thing and "well, he's an adult" and "he could always quit" are really callous things to say in response.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Edit: Also some of the comments I'm reading here are quite unfair to people stuck in abusive work environments. Workplace abuse is a real thing and "well, he's an adult" and "he could always quit" are really callous things to say in response.

Absolutely. If you have ever been subjected to workplace bullying then you should be able to relate.

But it seems to be skating gets a free pass. I have seen some appalling behaviours in our sport over the years.

 

[chameleonster]

I'm curious as to what point in time during their partnership Bruno could have quit that would not be considered "ungrateful". If he had quit at any point before the Olympics and tried to talk about what was happening he would have been ripped to shreds and tarnished his reputation as a professional. Was she being grateful to the partner who finally got her the OGM by belittling him and pushing him to work through injury and illness and verbally attacking him? People are talking about this as regular post-split bitterness, when he literally develops anxiety over the thought of seeing her again and a rush of relief when she didn't end up coming. That's not sour grapes.

In intense, fast paced careers pushing yourself to the limit is expected and there's nothing in place to prevent burnout. Athletes have to have a ton of discipline and resilience and be able to push past a lot more than ordinary people do, but it's easy to take that too far when you don't foster an environment where people can say it's too much, or sometimes even know that it's too much. I've heard a lot of athletes that ended up with massive injury issues say that they just pushed past it and kept going because they've been told some amount of pain is to be expected and they no longer had an idea of what abnormal pain is until something finally went over the edge. In other demanding careers you're often expected to put up with physically and emotionally unhealthy demands and putting up with abuse showing how resilient you are until something cracks. Bruno was able to take it until he couldn't anymore, and that's not on him. What is considered "normal" stress and pain and etc. needs to be reevaluated and monitored because toxic conditions have been so normalized. I hope he heals and is able to bring his experiences to coaching and teach his students that it doesn't have to hurt.

 

[deegee]

a lot of people in here keep saying that bruno couldn't have won the olympic gold without aljona. but aljona herself had the opportunity to get olympic gold on 4 different occassions. she came close (made the podium) twice but didn't get gold until she partnered with bruno. maybe she could still have gotten gold with someone other than bruno, but 2 other partnerships before him didn't get that result. she obviously had the goods, but it takes 2 to tango/win pairs skating, as they say.

 

[canbelto]

I;m also kind of disturbed that people in this thread are dismissing Bruno because he isn't as talented as Aljona. Uh ... that's really messed up. Plus, what's the bar for when someone's complaints are taken seriously? OGM? Bruno has that. WC's? Bruno has that too. He has a bunch of medal and trophies and yet he's still dismissed as "not talented" compared to Aljona?

 

[Prancer]

OK, I do.
ETA: By the way, the reason I bring up the paywall is because I don't see anyone on the PI board copy pasting paid articles. You gift them. I don't think you would copy paste, but I'd like to see you try if you're 100% fine with it.

It is a violation of copyright laws in most countries to copy and paste articles in their entirety on FSU, but it is not a violation of copyright law to copy and paste excerpts from articles on FSU.

If you object to things people post here, your best option is to contact the admins rather than scolding people in threads. We can actually do something about it if someone is violating the rules (and we appreciate that very much) and we can tell you what the applicable rules are if we think you are mistaken in your interpretation.

 

[Gris]

Some posters in this thread probably won't be happy unless Bruno kisses the ground Aljona has walked on.

These victim blaming "Bruno I have no sympathy for you" posts are sad.