Big Brother 21

tony

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At this point, I think it's safe to say Holly is in the final 2.

Listening in on the talk right after veto last night, seems Michie and Nicole were far out in front of everyone, with Nicole I believe losing by about 2.5 minutes. She also mentioned she stopped for water twice which frustrated her knowing she was so close, and that it involved knocking down the houseguests photos in situations that were announced (ie. 'these people did not get punished') but I guess the bigger challenge was the method which they had to do it. Apparently it was difficult to aim and houseguests kept accidentally knocking down the wrong ones and having to reset.

Cliff is still so sure he's staying. I think from the look on Nicole's face last night, she knows it's not going to happen and she's there for herself now. But you know what? She was most likely in the same predicament with a Cliff-Michie-Nicole final 3, as I'm sure Cliff was ready to backstab her anyways in the wild event that he won the final HOH (because his handshake with Michie being so important and all). Michie said something to Nicole a few days ago about not being so sure he would've taken Cliff, but I bet he would've. Honestly, I'm happy Cliff is getting shut down before the end.

So Nicole's chances might be slim for final HOH but it's probably down to her and Michie (not trusting in Holly's abilities in her latest showings). Seeing that it's likely two of the challenges will be trivia-oriented, I'm not giving up on her just yet. And if she were to win the final HOH (and send Michie packing I guess, since she wanted him out this week), she may very well get the jury votes for getting the 'biggest threat' out of the game. And it would be more fun to see Nicole and Michie battle it out for the HOH anyways.

ETA- there might be a predicament when it comes to the strategy Holly and Michie use in the final HOH. Remember last year how Tyler and Kaycee were going to work something out? I would think Holly has a better chance at the endurance segment of the HOH, but that's probably the one Michie would be gunning for.
 
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tony

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Cliff is one of the biggest idiots ever in this game. Seriously I can't believe the stupidity in the last few days as exhibited on the show tonight.

Nicole knew Michie was lying from the beginning and picked up on the Brett reference. Cliff completely thought about himself and the idea that Michie was taking him to the end. It wouldn't have mattered what Nicole did on Thursday-- a split vote and Tommy was going anyways. You can blame her to a fault, but it really wasn't going to matter what she wanted in the last hour prior to eviction. Cliff was set and desperately trying to make deals for her. They all knew there would be two pairs in the final 4 with keeping Holly and then a 50% chance of taking their partner to the 3.. but Cliff is delusional and buh-bye.

I think Nicole has locked up AFP, but I'm still hoping for that final HOH win just to shake it up and not give the happy couple $550,000.

And PS- it's hilarious that Michie was so agitated to try to get Holly to throw the HOH for the sole purpose of having her be a potential option to vote out at 3. He knew if Cliff won veto, he would've sent Holly out anyways.
 

vanillashake

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Nicole-Holly Final 2 would be an utter travesty IMO. I do not dislike either, but I would hate to see a Final 2 between the 2 biggest goats who basically lose to everyone else of the Final 11 minus Jess and maybe Sis (even Sis maybe beats both with Gr8tful votes like Tommy, Christie, Jack, and probably Nick who had a crush on Sis all sure to be voting her). And either would be like the worst winner in history.

We need a Jackson-Holly final 2 simple since Jackson needs to win the season. He is by far the best player of this season, and once Christie and Tommy went out the only deserving winner of the remaining people.

If the horror of a Nicole-Holly Final 2 were to happen Holly would probably win something like 5-4 or 6-3. Jess, Kat, Jackson are guaranteed Holly votes. Only Cliff and maybe Nick are guaranteed for Nicole. Christie and Tommy could go either way. Jack and Sis would likely lean to Holly. Both would be completely unworthy and easily top Josh as the worst BBUSA winner ever. Especialy Holly who slept in bed all day and didn't even campaign to save herself while a brilliant Jackson pulled off the miracles to save her. She was playing a good game until 3 weeks ago, but her finish is utterly pathetic and her winning, as she probably (even if not for sure) does in a Nicole-Holly Final 2 would be a travesty for someone who has given up in her final month of the game. Nicole would probably deserve it in that awful Final 2, bu the jury is stacked enough in Holly's favor to likely give it to her.
 
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vanillashake

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And yes Holly is absolutely guaranteed 50k atleast now. Jackson has literally dragged her dead carcus over the finish line for her.
 

vanillashake

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Nicole is still better off that Tommy went. Cliff may be an idiot but he inadvertently did her a big favor assuming her goal is to win 500k and not 50k. Since we now know how the Final 4 comps went down we pretty much can guarantee we would have had a Tommy-Jackson-Nicole Final 3.

Tommy already said he was throwing Final 4 HOH. Nicole still wins that. Jackson already said he is booting Nicole or Cliff over Tommy if Holly went. Jackson likely still wins Final 4 veto. Cliff still is booted.

The Final 3 is now Tommy-Jackson-Nicole. While this gives Nicole a better chance of Final 2 as Tommy or Jackson atleast might take her over each other. I think Tommy does take Nicole over Jackson. Jackson could go either way to who he takes. It leaves her with no chance of winning. Even if Nicole wins final HOH now she is simply choosing who she loses to. With Holly there she actually has a chance of winning, vs the none she would have in the Tommy-Jackson - Nicole Final 3 we now get if Cliff did not put his foot down and boot Tommy.
 

tony

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I think Cliff just said if it's Holly and Jackson in the final 2, Jackson doesn't get his vote and I actually believe he will stick to that. He ruined Cliff's chances at the end for listening to his lies, and he also made Cliff's popularity tank after being extremely high all season. I think Holly has this in the bag if she (likely once again) gets pulled into the end by Jackson.

And how glorious if she watches the shows towards the end and notices how much it was all about Jackson. Until he pulled her to the end in hopes that they can be top 2 in the event that his jury management wasn't quite up to par ;)
 

vanillashake

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Cliff just said if it's Holly and Jackson in the final 2, Jackson doesn't get his vote and I actually believe he will stick to that. He ruined Cliff's chances at the end for listening to his lies, and he also made Cliff's popularity tank after being extremely high all season. I think Holly has this in the bag if she (likely once again) gets pulled into the end by Jackson.

And how glorious if she watches the shows towards the end and notices how much it was all about Jackson. Until he pulled her to the end in hopes that they can be top 2 in the event that his jury management wasn't quite up to par ;)

Even if Cliff is telling the truth I see no way on earth Holly could win over Jackson. Probably over Nicole (even though she wouldn't deserve to even beat her but probably does anyway due to the stacked jury) but definitely not over Jackson.

Lets pretend Cliff does vote Holly. Holly then gets Cliff, Kat, and maybe Jess. I think that is it. Tommy and Christie would never vote Holly over Jackson, since they are gamers and will vote the best player. Tommy even said he respected Jackson's move and game play to get him out despite the trauma of it all. Jack and Sis obviously vote Jackson handily. Nicole who knows, but I see no particular reason she wouldn't vote Jackson. Nick would almost for sure vote Jackson. So Cliff just brings her up to a 6-3 loss maybe.
 

vanillashake

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Holly would need a super bitter Tommy/Christie to stand a fighting chance vs Jackson, even if she gets Cliff's vote (and maybe Nicole's). That is the only way.
 

tony

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Nicole and Cliff are debating whether to tell Michie that if either of them win the final HOH, they will take him to the final 2 as a way of bargaining to try to get Cliff to stay. It's obviously not going to work when he and Holly already have a 2/3 chance of winning ALL of the money, but oh how I wish it was anyone but Holly and he would take the bait, only to be screwed over at the end.

ETA- Nicole has also said she is not voting for Michie in a Holly/Michie final. Things can obviously change, but Holly would, at this point, have Kat, Jess, Cliff, and Nicole at the very least. I think sending Cliff out and having both Tommy and Cliff tell their stories to jury is enough to have at least one of them-- maybe even Tommy-- give Holly his vote. That's the angle Nicole and Cliff could try to play, but hey, Michie probably thinks Holly's money will be his as well.
 

vanillashake

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If Holly somehow does beat Michie in Final 2 he will try and marry her I bet. If he wins, they will break up soon after the show.
 

vanillashake

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Whatever money Holly wins she should be kissing Jackson's feet since she was 100% gone Thursday night without his Oscar winning performance and badly out-acting the Broadway star Tommy Bracco.
 

Sparks

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Jackson and Holly actually read the rule book to see if they could get Nicole to forfeit her HOH so that they can evict her instead of Cliff.

They are horrible.
 

TanithandBenFan

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Jackson and Holly actually read the rule book to see if they could get Nicole to forfeit her HOH so that they can evict her instead of Cliff.

They are horrible.

OMG is that what they were doing? I fast forwarded through them last night on BBAD because I couldn't stand to listen their self-righteousness anymore. I thought it was ironic for Jackson to be reading the rules since he should have been kicked out long ago for violating the Have Not rules multiple times. I hope when he walks out into the real world for the first time after the show that someone smashes a watermelon over his blockhead.
 

Sparks

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OMG is that what they were doing? I fast forwarded through them last night on BBAD because I couldn't stand to listen their self-righteousness anymore. I thought it was ironic for Jackson to be reading the rules since he should have been kicked out long ago for violating the Have Not rules multiple times. I hope when he walks out into the real world for the first time after the show that someone smashes a watermelon over his blockhead.
To be fair, I read this on twitter. I believe it, though.
 

Fridge_Break

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Jackson keeps talking about “confetti” on finale night so much that if he does actually win, that instead of confetti I hope they get a lineup of people in dancing gummy bear costumes to greet him at the door and toss grains of rice and potato chips at him instead.
 

vanillashake

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If it is a Holly-Jackson Final 2 we will know the outcome by the 7th juror at the absolute latest. Lets say it is 4-3 Jackson, he is already certain to win. If it is 4-3 Holly, she is already certain to win. The 8th juror is Kat, lock to vote Holly. The 9th juror is Jack, lock to vote Jackson over Holly.
 

tony

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Jackson and Holly actually read the rule book to see if they could get Nicole to forfeit her HOH so that they can evict her instead of Cliff.

They are horrible.
OMG is that what they were doing? I fast forwarded through them last night on BBAD because I couldn't stand to listen their self-righteousness anymore. I thought it was ironic for Jackson to be reading the rules since he should have been kicked out long ago for violating the Have Not rules multiple times. I hope when he walks out into the real world for the first time after the show that someone smashes a watermelon over his blockhead.

No one is really sure what they were doing because apparently they were just pointing and not really talking, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Holly has really disappointed me in the last few days. I know she was fighting for her life to stay in the game, but again, Nicole really had no part in any of those deals they were desperate to make. If it weren’t for her lover, she could’ve held on as long as she wanted and maybe won HOH. But Michie wanted to assure his safety for the final 3 and that required Holly to not win HOH. She will see it when she gets out of the house, but I’m sure all will be forgiven. But for now, they need to chill on the whining.

I’m praying Nicole is able to take them both down.
 

vanillashake

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As I said 4 weeks ago I can't see any scenario Nicole wins a jury vote even if she reaches the end. And it that much harder since her dream F2 goat Tommy is out now. Although with the jury so pissed at Jackson increasingly maybe she would have a shot vs him, but that doesn't matter if she takes Holly and it seems certain that is who she would take.

Holly would probably win 7-2 with all of Kat, Jess, Sis, Jack, Jackson, Christie, Tommy. She might be able to swing 1 or 2 of Christie, Tommy, Sis, for a much closer loss, but even that wouldn't be enough to win.

It is looking more likely Holly can actually beat Jackson in a Final 2 now which would be a travesty. Hate Jackson all you want but he has played the best game by far, while Holly played a very good game until the last 3 weeks or so but has been abysmal down the stretch. Cliff voting him out of bitterness because he was dumb enough to believe he keeps him over his showmance is downright pathetic. There are justifications for bitter jurors but that isn't one of them.
 

tony

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I have my first problem with a challenge this season. I was watching the live feeds immediately after they came back from the veto competition, and at least 2 times (maybe more), Jackson mentioned that he had read one of the questions wrong in the veto and 'they kept telling him' the opposite- IIRC it was the one about who has not been HOH.

Either way, there's no reason to say anything in this challenge. If you can't figure out the question, then you get stuck for that amount of time until you figure it out.

@TanithandBenFan or @Sparks were you watching the feeds when this all went down?
 
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vanillashake

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Interesting feeds today. Jackson and Holly agree if Nicole is first off in Part 1 HOH Jackson will throw that to Holly. They think he has an easier time beating Nicole on Part 2 and eliminating her from contention and securing the All Showmance Final 2. Holly agrees to to the plan.
 

vanillashake

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I have my first problem with a challenge this season. I was watching the live feeds immediately after they came back from the veto competition, and at least 2 times (maybe more), Jackson mentioned that he had read one of the questions wrong in the veto and 'they kept telling him' the opposite- IIRC it was the one about who has not been HOH.

Either way, there's no reason to say anything in this challenge. If you can't figure out the question, then you get stuck for that amount of time until you figure it out.

Jackson is the prod favorite. Been saying that since atleast week 4.

-Allowed to cheat on Have Not rules.

-DR manipulation anytime he is in potential trouble.

-DR manipulation to flip the vote back on sending Tommy out over Holly. And while I think Tommy going was still better for Nicole, it was also much better for Jackson.

-Cheating on food supplies, a whole bunch of extra watermelons which they have never done for anyone else, including about 20 of them in his HOH room on his first HOH week.

And most of all his fake reformed hero edit, which blissfully has fooled nobody as he is still 11th around in most popularity polls and has no chance to be even Top 3 in America's Favorite Player.

Final 3 HOH will be semi rigged for him to make sure he wins. Part 3 will be a bunch of questions he is more likely to get right. Allison Grodner will blow a fuse if her favorite doesn't win for a 3rd straight year.
 

tony

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I did. It sounded like cheating to me. They also MADE Nicole rest. IDK

Did they make her rest or did she say she felt stupid for taking two water breaks? I remember she said that she had to, but I interpreted that as her own needing it, and that she felt she had lost at least a minute and a half from that. They were also talking about how the houseguests who went earlier in the challenges were at a disadvantage because of the heat.
 

vanillashake

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Like I said Jackson is the production pet from almost Week 3. They will do everything in their power to ensure he crosses the line first, including subtle forms of cheating. Grodhog (aka Allison Grodner) has had her pet lose in the finals 2 straight years. She won't have that happen again.

The veto looked super sketchy, and I am not surprised one bit at that.
 
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vanillashake

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Last night charming Jackson guilted Holly when talking to her that he is starting to think he will lose a jury vote to her and that she should feel bad since she doesn't deserve it, blah blah. She is sure lucky this self revelation didn't come a week ago or she would not still be in the house today as no way he fights this hard to flip the vote back to save her over Tommy now. I still don't think Jackson would ever vote her out at this point, but it was a hilarious scene. Holly to her credit handled it well.
 

Sparks

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I have my first problem with a challenge this season. I was watching the live feeds immediately after they came back from the veto competition, and at least 2 times (maybe more), Jackson mentioned that he had read one of the questions wrong in the veto and 'they kept telling him' the opposite- IIRC it was the one about who has not been HOH.
Here is a clip of Jackson saying Production helped him.

I've seen some vets say this is normal and others, including Evel Dick say this is cheating. IDK
 

tony

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Here is a clip of Jackson saying Production helped him.

I've seen some vets say this is normal and others, including Evel Dick say this is cheating. IDK

I don’t know how anyone, vet or not, can say that it’s normal when this is a timed challenge and the production interference would help the time be reduced. That’s like saying when one of them was stuck with 4 knocked down that production stepped in and said ‘this is the one you’re missing!’

We don’t know if the others got the same help or not, but they probably didn’t need it. And therein lies the problem.
 

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